Feats At the Start.

[SilverSun]

All right. But this is a RPG after all isn't it? You should be allowed to do whatever you felt like (within reason). Anyway, I wouldn't really mind if only Jedi could wear Jedi robes, but it's a long way from there to considering a piece of cloth a +5 armor with max DEX bonus of +8, and an extra +5 to WIS. Darth Bandon's armor was balanced and was coherent with the SW universe. Qel-Droma's & SF robes, were not.

 

SW universe has a lot of strange things,some sort of fiber or material that could give a "normal" robe special attributes is not incoherent. Even more so if you consider they were one of a kind robes,not every robe out there had those stats. And the Qel,robes if IIRC,did not add anything to Wis,only the SF robes did which you gained at the end of the game and were created by the SF. Also not incoherent with in the realm of SW.

 

If anything not being able to wear armor and cast Force Powers is more of break in the SW world. Needed for the balance of the system but still I've never seen anything saying someone couldn't use the force because of what they had on. Even more so when when Bandon could and anyone else could not.

[Ludozee]

IIRC, the Qel-Droma robes added +2 Wis.

[SilverSun]

Hmm,so they did my mistake.

[213374U]

SW universe has a lot of strange things,some sort of fiber or material that could give a "normal" robe special attributes is not incoherent. Even more so if you consider they were one of a kind robes,not every robe out there had those stats. And the Qel,robes if IIRC,did not add anything to Wis,only the SF robes did which you gained at the end of the game and were created by the SF. Also not incoherent with in the realm of SW.

I'm not speaking about the materials used to fabricate the robes here. I'm referring mostly to Jedi never wearing any kind of armor. For a Jedi the Force provides all the needed defense. Jedi robes are, as you said yourself, a symbol of the Jedi order, the traditional attire, if you will, but not an armor. Jedi aren't warriors, they are peacekeepers, they have no business wearing armors.

 

If anything not being able to wear armor and cast Force Powers is more of break in the SW world. Needed for the balance of the system but still I've never seen anything saying someone couldn't use the force because of what they had on. Even more so when when Bandon could and anyone else could not.

Not completely accurate. The only powers that you can't use while wearing armor are Force speed and Force armor, if I'm not mistaken, you can use all the DS powers at your leisure. It makes sense, since it both Force speed and Force armor grant heavy defense bonuses, which added to the armor's defense bonus results in cheese, big time. If you watch carefully, Bandy only uses DS powers and Force immunity, so he's not 'cheating'.

[Barzarel]

Would be nice to see more jedi minded feats, if you play gaurdian you usually have alot of feats to dispense but little as to how to use them.

[SilverSun]

I'm not speaking about the materials used to fabricate the robes here. I'm referring mostly to Jedi never wearing any kind of armor. For a Jedi the Force provides all the needed defense. Jedi robes are, as you said yourself, a symbol of the Jedi order, the traditional attire, if you will, but not an armor. Jedi aren't warriors, they are peacekeepers, they have no business wearing armors.

 

Warriors are not the only ones who wear armor. They're Peacekeepers yes but they understand there are times that may come when they need to or have to fight. They may have the Force but they're still mortal,they can still and do die. Nothing wrong,from a story line stand point,with a Jedi boosting their own Def,or the robes having an def value. They can't be a Peacekeeper if they're dead.From a game mechanic and balance stand point the robes are made to have much less Def then armor. Even the one of a kind Robes can't match the Armor.

 

Not completely accurate. The only powers that you can't use while wearing armor are Force speed and Force armor, if I'm not mistaken, you can use most DS powers at will. It makes sense, since it both Force speed and Force armor grant heavy defense bonuses, which added to the armor's defense bonus results in cheese, big time. If you watch carefully, Bandy only uses DS powers and Force immunity, so he's not 'cheating'.

 

Never said he was cheating and I never went dark so I didn't know that,my mistake. I understand the reason and need for the balance there.

[213374U]

Warriors are not the only ones who wear armor. They're Peacekeepers yes but they understand there are times that may come when they need to or have to fight. They may have the Force but they're still mortal,they can still and do die. Nothing wrong,from a story line stand point,with a Jedi boosting their own Def,or the robes having an def value. They can't be a Peacekeeper if they're dead.From a game mechanic and balance stand point the robes are made to have much less Def then armor. Even the one of a kind Robes can't match the Armor.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, fine. I may accept the fact of Jedi wearing armor (even though I don't like it), since in the EU it's not unheard of. But, what I don't see coherent, gameplay-wise or storywise, is that Jedi robes are treated as armor, but without incurring in the penalties associated with armor. Gameplay-wise, a Jedi PC doesn't need a boost to defense, the game is already easy enough. And story-wise, there's no explaining how a piece of cloth may offer protection against blaster fire... or worse. In fact, in the movies Jedi are often hit by blasters, and it doesn't seem their rags protect them at all.

 

But then again, I may be asking this game to be something it was not meant to be.

 

BTW, how come we always end up hijacking the thread so badly? "

[SilverSun]

Yeah, fine. I may accept the fact of Jedi wearing armor (even though I don't like it), since in the EU it's not unheard of. But, what I don't see coherent, gameplay-wise or storywise, is that Jedi robes are treated as armor, but without incurring in the penalties associated with armor. Gameplay-wise, a Jedi PC doesn't need a boost to defense, the game is already easy enough. And story-wise, there's no explaining how a piece of cloth may offer protection against blaster fire... or worse. In fact, in the movies Jedi are often hit by blasters, and it doesn't seem their rags protect them at all.

 

That's why the def value is much lower then armor.

 

But then again, I may be asking this game to be something it was not meant to be.

 

Ever play as an Armor Jedi? Makes playing with the robes seem like a little bit of a challenge.

 

BTW, how come we always end up hijacking the thread so badly?

 

In our past lives we were train robbers. :cool:

[Barzarel]

Think reason they dont wear armor is because of dex, since they use alot of reflex for their class it would be difficult doing such in thight leather or heavy armor.

 

Remember qui-gon jin in ep1 where he snatch the tongue of jar jar bings, and he tells about jedi reflexes, i dont believe they wear armor because of this.

 

So i dont think it alot to do with ignorance of defense rather some of their skills would be impossible in heavy armor.

[SilverSun]

Oh without a doubt Armor would hinder movement,however that doesn't mean one couldn't use some if he/she wanted too. And game wise the larger the Armor the less of a Dex boost you get. There's no real reason to have def value of zero on a Robe. Not like any of them have a def value of 10 or something,which would be a bit much for a robe. They're all low,even the good ones.

[213374U]

There's no real reason to have def value of zero on a Robe. Not like any of them have a def value of 10 or something,which would be a bit much for a robe. They're all low,even the good ones.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is a reason to have a zero def value on a robe. The reason is, zero is the def value of the rest of clothing. I don't see how Jedi robes are different.

[SilverSun]

There is a reason to have a zero def value on a robe. The reason is, zero is the def value of the rest of clothing. I don't see how Jedi robes are different.

 

*Shrugs*A Jedi Robe isn't normal clothing. I don't see any need to hinder the player by having a 0 Def value. It's a game after all and the Def value is a game mechanic,not part of the story. Most items of that nature that are worn are going to have some kind of Def value to it.

 

Be kind of like getting upset because the Ligthsabers don't kill in one hit or someone taking 20 shots and not falling down. It's a game not real life and some things aren't going to match up. It throws off the balance between the story and game mechanics.

[Carth Vader]

There is a reason to have a zero def value on a robe. The reason is, zero is the def value of the rest of clothing. I don't see how Jedi robes are different.

 

Everyone knows that in real ilfe a bath robe is no more effective in protecting you than a sweater would be, but this isn't real life it's a game.

[SilverSun]

I donno,I've had some pretty thick Bath Robes... "

[Ludozee]

I think the whole point is, while Jedi have very fast reflexes, is harder to hit thim when they wear light Jedi robes than when they wear heavy armour, witch hinders their movement.

[213374U]

*Shrugs*A Jedi Robe isn't normal clothing. I don't see any need to hinder the player by having a 0 Def value. It's a game after all and the Def value is a game mechanic,not part of the story. Most items of that nature that are worn are going to have some kind of Def value to it.

How come Jedi robes aren't normal clothing? Can you provide any example in which Jedi robes provide superior protection to that offered by regular clothing?

 

Anyway, a well planned PC doesn't really need that def bonus. Adding an armor bonus to the already insanely high defense values of the Jedi classes is overkill.

Def 25 is considered to be a fairly high defense value. At the end of K1, using Force speed and Force armor, you could go all the way up to 36+ defense, with the SF/Qel-Droma robes. Short of Malak, nobody would ever touch you (Malak rolled at +38 I think).

 

I know, not everyone is supposed to know how to develop a character into a killing machine, but that is part of mastering a cRPG as well.

 

Oh, well... who needs Jedi robes when you have Sith pijamas. :cool:

[Carth Vader]

I think the whole point is, while Jedi have very fast reflexes, is harder to hit thim when they wear light Jedi robes than when they wear heavy armour, witch hinders their movement.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True but that can be said of everyone really.

[SilverSun]

How come Jedi robes aren't normal clothing? Can you provide any example in which Jedi robes provide superior protection to that offered by regular clothing?

 

Because Jedi have them.

 

But seriously,I meant from a game mechanic stand point they're not considered normal clothing. And they're not because items of that nature worn by the characters are going to have some kind of Def Value to them. They tried to help balance this out by given the robes a very low Def value,but they're going to have something.

 

Again sabers,story wise, should cut people in two in a single swing if they connect. Yet here,the damage you did with the saber was based on your stats/crystals and such.

 

Would a robe stop a blaster shot? No.

 

Would your run of the mil Armor stop a saber? No.

 

It's all a matter of trying to find a balance. I don't see adding a little def to the Robes as hurting anything.

 

You may be a wiz at creating characters in games such as these,but as you said,not everyone is. So they need to balance that.

 

*LOL*Sith Pj,do they have little red sabers on them?

[Jeremiah]

There are some DS powers that are armor restricted if I am not mistaken.

 

Plague I believe is armor restricted but the lesser versions are not (same as Stasis field is armor restricted but the lesser versions are not). Better check my Dark Side game again .

 

Force Immunity is supposed to be armor restricted if I am not mistaken. So technically Bandon was cheating LOL. Then again, he was susceptible to plasma grenades so I wonder if he really was equipped with the armor.

[Carth Vader]

How come Jedi robes aren't normal clothing? Can you provide any example in which Jedi robes provide superior protection to that offered by regular clothing?

 

Because Jedi have them.

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So does Owen Lars and he's no Jedi.

[SilverSun]

So does Owen Lars and he's no Jedi.

 

Then it's not a Jedi's Robe silly.

 

It's a Farmer's robe.

[Barzarel]

*Shrugs*A Jedi Robe isn't normal clothing. I don't see any need to hinder the player by having a 0 Def value. It's a game after all and the Def value is a game mechanic,not part of the story. Most items of that nature that are worn are going to have some kind of Def value to it.

How come Jedi robes aren't normal clothing? Can you provide any example in which Jedi robes provide superior protection to that offered by regular clothing?

 

Anyway, a well planned PC doesn't really need that def bonus. Adding an armor bonus to the already insanely high defense values of the Jedi classes is overkill.

Def 25 is considered to be a fairly high defense value. At the end of K1, using Force speed and Force armor, you could go all the way up to 36+ defense, with the SF/Qel-Droma robes. Short of Malak, nobody would ever touch you (Malak rolled at +38 I think).

 

I know, not everyone is supposed to know how to develop a character into a killing machine, but that is part of mastering a cRPG as well.

 

Oh, well... who needs Jedi robes when you have Sith pijamas. :cool:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Have you heard about the power called "force break" if not try and check it out

 

And i honestly dont know what version you have but in my version Malak knows how to use it, not that it matters much because his dead to soon to actually use it much. :cool:

[Barzarel]

As to the jedi robes i heard rumors they use watery wax that when dries it hardens making it more resistant to blows " .

 

...no..really it a game i dont hear anyone complaining about lightsaber not making instant kill on critical hit like in movies, so why should robes be any different :cool:

[SilverSun]

no..really it a game i dont hear anyone complaining about lightsaber not making instant kill on critical hit like in movies, so why should robes be any different

 

Seen a few people complain about that actually.

[213374U]

Have you heard about the power called "force break" if not try and check it out 

 

And i honestly dont know what version you have but in my version Malak knows how to use it, not that it matters much because his dead to soon to actually use it much.  :cool:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I presume you are referring to 'Force breach'? Yes, I know of it. And no, Malak only uses it if you are beyond melee range, if not, he just pounds at you with his lightsaber. And even if he uses it, even better, 1 free round to land 50+ damage on his sorry ass. If he tears my force powers down, I retreat, bring them up again, and proceed to mop the floor with the Dark Lord. Simple, really.