Thousands Refusing to pay taxes

[taks]

$10 trillion is the GDP, not the total gov't budget.

corrected that error...

 

taks

[taks]

see above for the actuals in the budget... the $536B number is incorrect as are the $50B iraq/afghanistan #s. in 2004, we spent a total of $2.3T. "past military" doesn't make sense and your # of $1.9T is also incorrect.

 

taks

[Product of the Cosmos]

As response to your edit: that is the projected budget of 2005 I did taks... Not the 2004 budget. You can get thru the #'s in 2004 if you want and get a percentage I estimate at about 43% for war. Whatever. thats still a ****load too much IMO. lol you can stick to your 5% is you want.... LOL. 5% my ass. I would be celebrating if it was 5%.

[taks]

even for 2005, the total DoD+war+homeland expenditures are in the $400B range... out of over $2T in total expenditures...

 

still not close buddy...

 

taks

[Product of the Cosmos]

LOL closer than 5% with all war expendetures considered.

 

And you cant argue anything else Ive said in this thread apparently. lol. I thought i diced your BS quite well.. Let down you don't stick to your previous arguements and have to argue #'s.

 

 

You also dont consider we spend more than we are taxed. And I said tax dollars.

 

federal discretionary budget 2002: 50.5% military. Compared to 8% education.. LMAO.. Thats sure smart.. Smart like you JN.

 

"the numbers are public and it amounts to less than 5%. we spend more money on education and medicare"

 

LOL. I think your the one who should do some researching..

[taks]

LOL closer than 5% with all war expendetures considered.

 

And you cant argue anything else Ive said in this thread apparently. lol. I thought i diced your BS quite well.. Let down you don't stick to your previous arguements and have to argue #'s.

 

 

You also dont consider we spend more than we are taxed. And I said tax dollars.

 

federal discretionary budget 2002: 50.5% military. Compared to 8% education.. LMAO.. Thats sure smart.. Smart like you JN.

again, according to the 2005 budget, total defense expenditures for homeland security plus DoD are $432B, nothing is proposed for the war... total outlays for the year are estimated at $2.4T. less than 25%, not 50%.

 

you diced nothing but your ability to add.

 

taks

[Product of the Cosmos]

I was talking about other statements by JN.. Sorry I got you and him mixed.. your both about the same to me.. lol.

 

Your %'s are about 19% for war or so by a quick estimation. This is a distortion of how our annual income tax dollars are spent because it includes Trust Funds (ex: Social Security), and the expenses on effects of past military actions are not distinguished from nonmilitary spending.

 

oops.

[Judge Hades]

As long as the Electorial COllege is in place the Popular vote is meaningless, therefore the votes of the average citizen is meaningless. It doesn't matter if these people vote or not in November as long as that archaic institution is still in place.

[Darque]

Viva la revolution!

[Product of the Cosmos]

Which is why speaking with a vote is not effective. Which was my whole point. And we the American people IMO, are oppressed by the Bush regime and their interest groups very much so. The cictizen vote is to give an idea to the electorial college if there will be a ****ing outrage and mass riot in their decision. They keep us enough divided for their process tho. But in a non-corrupted system the electorial college is a great idea. But since we got a lot of corrupted fux in our system and government its not effective. We have the best, and most screwed system in the world IMO.. lol.

 

viva la revolution! lol.

[taks]

by past military spending, i'm assuming you mean pension/benefits for veterans? that number is actually $60B for 2004 (still an estimate on the chart) and expected to be $67B for 2005. the current expenditure, on the same chart, for national defense is $450B. receipts are about $2.1T for the same year which STILL puts you at or under 25%... given that you called it the "corporate war machine" and that approximately $175B of this total expense is actually pay and benefits ($104B current, $67B veterans) for the personnel themselves, that means that somewhere around $330-340B is spent on the "corporate" part of your war machine (including maintenance, procurement, construction and R&D). now we're down to under 17%, again.

 

human resources, including VA benefits, account for approximately $1.6T of our budget (that's the shame). our gov't should ONLY be spending money on defense of our rights.

 

taks

[taks]

As long as the Electorial COllege is in place the Popular vote is meaningless, therefore the votes of the average citizen is meaningless. It doesn't matter if these people vote or not in November as long as that archaic institution is still in place.

if you actually understood how the numbers worked out, you'd realize how stupid this statement actually is. regardless of how you want to look at it, the vote means a lot. for all its flaws, the electoral college is mathematically superior to a popular vote (at least on this scale). there are even better methods, however, though it is questionable that the general public would understand them.

 

taks

[Judge Hades]

I don't really care how the number works out, Taks. All I know is that my vote is meaningless which is why I don't vote in presidential elections nor do I pay taxes.

[Product of the Cosmos]

My estimate was off. All things considered including interest and money Bush or Kerry will ask for Iraq/Afganistan(and high chance of Iran eventually) after the elections it will be about 30% it seems after looking at the #'s close. lol About smack dab in the middle our lacky estimations. Both of our estimations were incorrect. You said less than 5%, I said over 50%. lol.. Hundreds of billions of dollars still.. My wrong estimation doesn't prove anything Xcept the fact that I didn't take the time to dig through all the **** on whitehouse.gov to come up with a definite # just like you.. lol. And by saying corporate war machine thats a label i call the whole damn effort. So dont feel you can use it as a # trimmer for your percentages.

 

60+450=510, 510b out of 2.1t is roughly 24.3% Not less than 17. Still, even with 17%, 17% of our tax dollars filtered to the corporations that control a large portion our media? 17% of our tax dollars to corporations that all have political and influential backrounds and contributions? Thats ****ed up.. lol.

 

Glad there was a discussion on it tho so we all can have more accurate and definite #'s. Either way, IMO we spend way to much on military. And at the same time not enough. Vets don't barely get ****, if they got what they should get the % would be definetly higher. It seems there's more homeless vets then any other type of people. Sux.

 

 

"human resources, including VA benefits, account for approximately $1.6T of our budget (that's the shame). our gov't should ONLY be spending money on defense of our rights."

 

lol Normally I would know someone is joking with this but Im not quite sure with you. You might actually think we should spend more on military. lol. Ya lets just cut education all together, we don't need educated people.. We want front line people! lol.........

 

 

oh.. And all this throwing #'s around.. Whata bout the ****ing costs of !!!!!LIFE!!!! in war? Theres no # or % for that. Because its priceless.

 

 

 

If I was like you and JN taks I would feel inclined to march around with a signs saying 'Free Kenneth Lay!'.. LMFAO!@!!!!!!!!

[Grandpa]

I'd really like to hear someone explain how the Bush administration is any different than any previous administration.

 

Politicians are all:

 

A. Cheats

B. Liars

C. "Company Boys"

D. Opportunists

E. Egotists

F. Narcissists

 

I defy anyone to find one in US History who wasn't. Some just happen to be less inclined to hide it than others (Ted Kennedy, **** Cheney).

 

As for votes counting or not counting. The latest race-baiting going on in FL, and now other places, is a bunch of crap. If you are too ignorant to understand how register to vote properly, or too incoherent to vote properly when the time comes, should the state then be required to provide you with a tutor? Would not the same race-baiting groups (NAACP) then cry foul at the supposed attempt to make those minorities appear inferior or stupid?

 

Heres one for you, those same men and women who are running around the globe getting shot at and killed, or fighting mother nature to rescue you when you get yourself in a life threatening situation, have thir votes shelved until long after the election has finished and the winner declared. That is, unless, the election is so close that the military absentee ballots NEED to be counted in order to declare a winner. THAT is a bunch of crap, if you ask me.

 

The elctoral college needs to go away if elections are to ever be fair and truly "off the people".

 

The federal income tax needs to go away as well. It should be replaced with a national sales tax. The IRS can be reduced to less than half (there still needs to be people there to process the sales tax revenue). This would place all people on a level playing field. The rich, who claim to pay most of the taxes, but actually don't, though deferments and shelters, would end up actually paying their fair share. Buy a boat...pay taxes, period. Provisions would be made for the poor to reduce the amount they pay in sales taxes based on the yearly income vice family size. (Another reason to keep some of the IRS around).

[Product of the Cosmos]

I agree with most of what you said grandpa..

 

But the racial blurb you say is not the only way votes were not counted in Florida.

[Karzak]

The Bush administration is doing a pretty good job, certainly better than clinton.

 

When these criminal tax fraud people are behind bars, it will be a better day for all of us.

[Product of the Cosmos]

^^lol^^ these 'criminals' are patriots IMO. And many of them are reformers for the bettering of America. Whether this act by them is good in your view or not. A lot of them dedicate their lives to helping America become a better place. And they fight for all of our freedoms with some of the most elusive bastardly people ever.. Politicians.......

 

 

If your agianst their action then petition the constitution. If you don't stand up and act for what you believe no matter if its right or wrong, you are lesser of a person when it comes to determination and action then even terrorists. At least they dedicate their lives for something they believe in.

[Karzak]

^^lol^^  these 'criminals' are patriots IMO.

So was tim mcveigh

 

These people are idiots trying not to pull their fair share, and they should have all their assets seized, their families put on the street, and be sent to prison for 10 years.

 

That seems right to me.

[Product of the Cosmos]

lol Well I guess right is perception. But I wonder what your doing in America. I think you would like living in a place where someone like Saddam is the leader. Your philosophies fit his style.

 

 

"These people are idiots trying not to pull their fair share, and they should have all their assets seized, their families put on the street, and be sent to prison for 10 years."

 

You assume they r just avding their tax dollars and thats it. You don't know them. You just assume thats what they r doing because you have no conviction or values in the way they do. Many of them donate their LIVES to helping AMerica.. Did you get that? Some of them have used most of their free time for the last few years and more to help America. Your view of them is perverted IMO.

 

Although some of the thousands most likely are just evading paying tax dollars. But most of these people WILL be prosecuted. They are sacrificing to make a stand that our current gov't is so ****ed up they will stand to be prosecuted to make a point to be heard. lol. To be labeled criminals by the likes of you. Very thoughtful and caring of you.

[Karzak]

You just assume thats what they r doing because you have no conviction or values in the way they do.

LOL, of course I do, that is why I just sent a letter to my congressman with the link asking that these people be investigated and prosecuted.

 

You gotta fight for your beliefs, like I just did.

[Product of the Cosmos]

lol. While 20 seconds may be something.. Its not much..

 

And they are being investigated and probed etcetc already. Your letter won't do a thing sadly.

 

And your the type of person I fight for personally. Because your so deprived of happiness you like to make everything around you sour. Least it seems so. I would pray for you if I was one to pray. lol.

 

 

And you may havemissed it. But 5 IRS agents themselves are joining in on this. Maybe that will give you an idea of the severity. Im sure your congressman is aware. This is historic.

[Grandpa]

I agree with most of what you said grandpa..

 

 

[Product of the Cosmos]

one of the main ways these 'incompetant voters' were miscalculated was the pieces of paper and the holes were not done correctly.

 

Reviewing the evidance from the 2000 elections its quite obvious IMO of mass conspiracy and fraud. But your right IMO there could have been more vigiliance on the part of the voter in some circumstances.

[Grandpa]

Why, oh why, is it always someone else's fault? Did the state of Florida gather all of it's volunteers together (most election volunteers happen to be retired, elderly folk) and order them NOT to count the votes of the old...or minorities?

 

I refuse to buy the conspiracy theory. I will buy that FL stretched it's antique voting methods one election too far, and the results came up and bit the in the @ss. Too many things on one sheet of paper lead to cramming of the choices together, making it difficult for the elderly (poor eye sight, no fault of their own) and the less educated (black/white/hispanic, all were affected, and many of those were, by their own statements, not well educated) to be able to make sense of what they were seeing.