Bastila Shan vs Anakin Skywalker

[Fearless_Jedi]

I agree.

[KOTORFanactic]

Lets not forget how easily Anakin went to the darkside himself. Anakin is strong minded true, and maybe he goes to the DS because he feels it is what is needed to do the right thing, but he 2 easily is seduced by the DS.

Plus we never really see Anakin in total control, he always seems to let his emotions do the thinking for him.

Bastila on the other hand, is able to keep control of her emotions a lot better, at least compared to Anakin.

 

It is all related though.

 

We are just two philosophers with different opinions, give us a break, we like debating this.

 

Maybe it is all related, but ur little discussion is starting to get out of hand. All u seem to be doing is blasting each others info, with no reference to the topic.

Continue ur discussion if u wish, just cool it, and try to use references to the topic where possible.

[Influence]

I have to agree unfortunately with Nur Ab on one poitn here, whether he wants me too or not. The Jedi would not neccessarily become strogner with time. Mass killings of Jedi would explain some loss of abilities, and the absence of sith would explain the Jedi's losing connection to the force, it was unbalanced, and the Jedi order may have become rusty over time creating a slower flow of the force. Due to the lack of their enemy, the sith. They were out of practice.

 

THerefore it can be accepted that the Jedi were more powerful durign the KOTOR time period. As i presume it is specifically stated in the EU.

 

However, for Bastillia and Anakin, to fight, would have to be in the same time period, and the force would be flowing through them at the same rate, therefore Anakin, having what i would consider more potential, would defeat Bastilia.

 

Also i woudl like to Apologize to GoA, i was drinking

[DSLuke]

Just face it Anakin would beat the s... out of Bastila

 

The only thing she can do is battle meditaion.

[Fearless_Jedi]

So basically those things cancel eachother out.

[Fearless_Jedi]

I have to agree unfortunately with Nur Ab on one poitn here, whether he wants me too or not. The Jedi would not neccessarily become strogner with time. Mass killings of Jedi would lose explain some loss of abilities, and the absence of sith sould explain the Jedi's losing connection to the force, it was unbalanced, and the Jedi order may have become rusty over time creating a slower flow of the force. DUe to the lack of their enemy, the sith. They were out of practice.

 

THerefore it can be accepted that the Jedi were more powerful durign teh KOTOR time period. As i presume it is specifically stated in the EU.

 

However, Bastillia and Anakin, to fight, woudl have to be in the same timeperiod, adn the force woudl be flowign through them at teh same rate, therefore anakin, having what i would consider more potential, would defeat Bastilia.

 

ALso i woudl liek to Apologize to GoA, i was drinking

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

How can a Jedi be out of practice?

[Influence]

the order itself was out of practice

[DSLuke]

I have to agree unfortunately with Nur Ab on one poitn here, whether he wants me too or not. The Jedi would not neccessarily become strogner with time. Mass killings of Jedi would lose explain some loss of abilities, and the absence of sith sould explain the Jedi's losing connection to the force, it was unbalanced, and the Jedi order may have become rusty over time creating a slower flow of the force. DUe to the lack of their enemy, the sith. They were out of practice.

 

THerefore it can be accepted that the Jedi were more powerful durign teh KOTOR time period. As i presume it is specifically stated in the EU.

 

However, Bastillia and Anakin, to fight, woudl have to be in the same timeperiod, adn the force woudl be flowign through them at teh same rate, therefore anakin, having what i would consider more potential, would defeat Bastilia.

 

ALso i woudl liek to Apologize to GoA, i was drinking

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

How can a Jedi be out of practice?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I assume Vader would be out of practise for a time period until he faced Luke.

He had killed almost all of the Jedi before (so he wouldn't need to train any longer)

Plus he could easily handle those Imperial offices :D

[KOTORFanactic]

Battle Mediattion is not the only thing Bastila can do. She has many other force powers, depending on how u hav her advance. She is also very skilled in saber combat. To use the double bladed lightsaber itself is impressive.

 

Plus, Anakin uses little to no force powers at all, relying almost entirely on lightsaber combat. He lacks control, which is his weakness. Bastila lacks control aswell, but she is at least in more control than Anakin. That is one of her amny edges.

 

(This will be my last post until tomorrow night. Please keep it civil and on topic. Thank You)

[Nur Ab Sal]

OK first let's try to make this more civilize, so accept apologies for ungentle insults.

 

Now about EU: Here's the link to quite good site that presents various canon definitions. For the official statement ask Ghost of Anakin he's got a link and I'm too lazy to find you one.

 

And I do believe that some forms look stupid - like form VI that makes really no sense. But I like vapaad, from II and V ideas, so I'll defend them anyway.

 

And why not doing a better job confronting my argument cause you are the one who has said EU a thousand times with no reference to an actual book/magaizine/or anything

 

Aside of Salvatore's novelization, dark horse comics and Shatterpoint, we have

Visual Dictionary that is canon like any other licensed book or video game, and articles in star wars insider 62 and 68.

 

Oh and Obi-Wan, in EP2, said Anakin "could" be better than Yoda with more practice, that is what I was pointing out, not what anakin thinks

 

Obi-Wan said this sarcastically and there's no reason to take his words seriously.

These words would be true in case of Luke that was more powerful than Anakin

(he defeated Vader with little training - this means something)

 

And even if EU says something, it can still be wrong, if you believed everything you heard would you not find contradictions

 

I must agree EU is indeed full of internal contradictions but still all EU is canon.

 

Culture's only have falls when the civilization is taken over or destroyed, that never happened to the jedi or the republic from KotOR to Clone Wars. Thus how an art could progress backward when the only way to go is forward is beyond me.

 

Wrong. Cultural style or philosphical thought can degenerate. China stood for thousands years and styles/ arts were falling and growing in their own rhytm - in Europe civilization stands today since renaissance (unless you call middle ages civilized) and we witness - despite stability and richness - utter fall of architecture

(compare today glass crap blocks with solid renaissance palaces) painting (compare sh..t you have in galleries with da vinci - no one can today draw like old masters) and so on. Lightsaber arts have fallen becouse Sith died on Ruusan and thus ended era of sith wars - instead jedi faced blaster armed scums and armies.

There was no need in further continuation of old styles, jedi developed new ones to deal with force-blind enemies.

[Influence]

I have to agree unfortunately with Nur Ab on one poitn here, whether he wants me too or not. The Jedi would not neccessarily become strogner with time. Mass killings of Jedi would lose explain some loss of abilities, and the absence of sith sould explain the Jedi's losing connection to the force, it was unbalanced, and the Jedi order may have become rusty over time creating a slower flow of the force. DUe to the lack of their enemy, the sith. They were out of practice.

 

THerefore it can be accepted that the Jedi were more powerful durign teh KOTOR time period. As i presume it is specifically stated in the EU.

 

However, Bastillia and Anakin, to fight, woudl have to be in the same timeperiod, adn the force woudl be flowign through them at teh same rate, therefore anakin, having what i would consider more potential, would defeat Bastilia.

 

ALso i woudl liek to Apologize to GoA, i was drinking

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I assume Vader would be out of practise for a time period until he faced Luke.

He had killed almost all of the Jedi before (so he wouldn't need to train any longer)

Plus he could easily handle those Imperial offices :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not to mention Vader was beaten by his son, who was barely a jedi and was not too impresive with his saber OR his force powers. He obviously was not as strong as he was when he first turned to teh Dark Side, he was out of practice and lost touch with the force MUCH LIKE THE MAIN CHAR IN K2!!!!!

 

THis is merely a microcosm for the jedi order losing touch with the foce due to teh same circumstances!

 

However, liek I said i beleive Anakin would be able to beat Bastilia in a fight. Bastilia is strong but she was not even as strogn as Malak and Malak was not even as strong as Revan! Revan could beat Anakin perhaps, but not Bastilia

[sickboycp]

Lucas said though that Vader was relatively weak compared to other Jedi and no match for Anakin Skywalker in his prime. If Vader faced a "real" Jedi, he'd be slaughtered.

[Influence]

exactly my point.

all you have to do is look at the fight scene between Obi Wan and vader in ANH. Its liek two 95 year old fighting for the last beano pill... slow and boring. Obi wasnt even trying and vader was, but Obi probably still was relatively weak because I would assume he lost touch with the force as well seeing he became a hermit.

[Fearless_Jedi]

I have to agree unfortunately with Nur Ab on one poitn here, whether he wants me too or not. The Jedi would not neccessarily become strogner with time. Mass killings of Jedi would lose explain some loss of abilities, and the absence of sith sould explain the Jedi's losing connection to the force, it was unbalanced, and the Jedi order may have become rusty over time creating a slower flow of the force. DUe to the lack of their enemy, the sith. They were out of practice.

 

THerefore it can be accepted that the Jedi were more powerful durign teh KOTOR time period. As i presume it is specifically stated in the EU.

 

However, Bastillia and Anakin, to fight, woudl have to be in the same timeperiod, adn the force woudl be flowign through them at teh same rate, therefore anakin, having what i would consider more potential, would defeat Bastilia.

 

ALso i woudl liek to Apologize to GoA, i was drinking

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I assume Vader would be out of practise for a time period until he faced Luke.

He had killed almost all of the Jedi before (so he wouldn't need to train any longer)

Plus he could easily handle those Imperial offices :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not to mention Vader was beaten by his son, who was barely a jedi and was not too impresive with his saber OR his force powers. He obviously was not as strong as he was when he first turned to teh Dark Side, he was out of practice and lost touch with the force MUCH LIKE THE MAIN CHAR IN K2!!!!!

 

THis is merely a microcosm for the jedi order losing touch with the foce due to teh same circumstances!

 

However, liek I said i beleive Anakin would be able to beat Bastilia in a fight. Bastilia is strong but she was not even as strogn as Malak and Malak was not even as strong as Revan! Revan could beat Anakin perhaps, but not Bastilia

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Vader was mostly machine, he just didn't have the ability to fight like he used to.

[Influence]

still...When he first became Darth Vader he must have been strogner than he was in the original trilogy.

[Nur Ab Sal]

However, liek I said i beleive Anakin would be able to beat Bastilia in a fight. Bastilia is strong but she was not even as strogn as Malak and Malak was not even as strong as Revan! Revan could beat Anakin perhaps, but not Bastilia

 

-Bastila was a teenager and only a padawan. Her abilities weren't fully developed. She wasn't any match for Revan and Malak becouse they were already in the beginning of Mandalorian War full fledged jedi knights. Malak - padawan would lost with Bastila - padawan. Malak-experienced jedi and later sith lord is different hotdog.

 

-malak gained great military experience, he was always in the frontlines for years practicing with lightsaber on the mandalorians. Bastila wasn't that experienced.

 

- before duel with Malak Bastila was quite tired after she slew all those sith troopers, dark jedi and other leviathan residents. Malak entered the fight with fresh

energy and he was in better condition. That's why he won with Revan and Bastila who were exhausted by previous fight and of course earlier heavily tortured by Karath.

 

- we are discussing duel between E2 Anakin-padawan and KOTOR padawan Bastila becouse they're in same age and on the same level of jedi training. Anakin-padawan would also lost with Malak on the leviathan and with Revan in temple

[Influence]

i cant say i truly agree with you, becaseu its hard to really compare Jedi untill they reached theri full potential everyone learns at a differetn rate, well at least that was what my eigth grade teacher told me when i got held back for four years straight...

 

EDIT: Besides, like i said Anakin had more potential and that POTENTIAL does not get tapped until Ep 3.... Since we do not know what Bastilia's full potentoal would be.. this is not a very fair comaparison now is it?

[Fearless_Jedi]

Ok Nur Sab, Sorry for any comments I made that might have offended you.

 

Wrning: Possible Spoilers Ahead

 

Firstly your link doesn't work, but I'll take it as you say it.

 

And my problem with the 7 forms, is as a whole, I think Vapaad and form II are neat even though they dont follow the movies very well, so I can't argue those cause they have been in books and such although the history of form II is still uncertain. All I really know is it is old, and made in response to all the lightsaber wielding baddies in the old times.

 

Next, though what Obi said in Ep was an exageration I think the basis for me using this comment was to show that Anakin's main talent as a Jedi was the lightsaber, which cant be said about bastila even though she uses a double bladed saber which is also odd cause Star Wars database labled those as "sith" lightsabers.

 

As far as EU goes, for me, the movies are the most cannon source followed by Books and such (EU) which are then cannon as long as they dont contradict the movies, because if you have contradicting elements....how can it be cannon even if Lucas Arts made a document that says it is....almost a contradiction in and of itself dont you think? Anyway alot of EU may be cannon but some of the stuff really is just nonsense, and when I say that I mean it just isn't Star Wars or it just doesn't seem logical, cannon or not.

 

Now as far as cultures go, yes their arts(culture) can die down due to influences of other cultures such as westernization I cant disagree with that, and granted to keep certain skills a group of artists have to use it or lose it, either they use it and never forget , or over time it ceases to exist. Again, that is something found in the basis of psychology itself, I cant dispute it.

 

What I can say is although after time some powers may be lost the basis for which those powers where made still exist, I mean why would the Jedi not pass on there most important stuff even if their numbers dwindled? And perhaps they didn't have the experience of a Jedi guardian during the Sith Wars, but they do practice the art of dueling (I believe that was said in the article about the 7 forms). So when Jedi such as Anakin fought during the Clone Wars where jedi fought Jedi (according to Clone Wars comics) and Jedi fought those Grievous Guards who had weapons that blocked lightsabers, then there skill in dueling is gonna improve undoubtedly but perhaps not as high as during the Sith Wars cause granted there where alot more Sith to deal with than rouge jedi and grievous guards, So they are gonna be dueling alot more often and there skills would be alittle bit better.

 

However, Anakin, plenty of combat exp from Clone Wars, very talented with a lightsaber to the point where he actually beats Mace, second only to Yoda(Granted Obi beats him but Obi was his master and knew how Anakin fought which gave him a advantage Mace didn't have) fights Bastila who has perhaps more dueling experience but less talent/skill then maybe she could put up somewhat of a fight but in the end Anakin is gonna win, his skill is too awesome, in some EpIII footage when you see him fight he acts like he isn't even trying....and if he isn't even trying against other well trained Jedi then damn he must be good.

[Nur Ab Sal]

cant say i truly agree with you, becaseu its hard to really compare Jedi untill they reached theri full potential everyone learsn at a differetn rate, well at least that was what my eith grade teacher told me when i got held back for four years stragiht...

 

EDIT: Besides, liek i said Anakin had more potential and that POTENTIAL does nto get tapped until Ep 3.... SInce we do not know what Bastilia's full potentioal woudl be.. this is nota very fair comaparison now is it?

 

These are all pure speculations. But seeing how weak and pathetic Anakin was in EII as a padawan I'll give more credits to Bastila.

[Bokishi]

Bastila will win, becuase all the best that Hayden could do is swing his ponytail at her.

[Fearless_Jedi]

Actually if this is between Ep2 Ani(I just thought Anikan before the fall) and KotOR Bastila then maybe it would be a draw, cause Ani's skill and Bastila's experience would cancel each other out. Then again Bastila doesn't seem to be all that good with a lightsaber......and the whining just doesn't stop....she would probably stop in the middle of the fight cause she broke a nail, or something to that effect.

[Influence]

FL.. techniques would be lost because perhaps a techinique that only a few Jedi knew, would be lost when both the master and Apprentice die...as for the overall power of the Jedi declining.. i already addressed that.

[Fearless_Jedi]

i cant say i truly agree with you, becaseu its hard to really compare Jedi untill they reached theri full potential everyone learns at a differetn rate, well at least that was what my eigth grade teacher told me when i got held back for four years straight...

 

EDIT: Besides, like i said Anakin had more potential and that POTENTIAL does not get tapped until Ep 3.... Since we do not know what Bastilia's full potentoal would be.. this is not a  very fair comaparison now is it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually I think you hit the nail on the head, you where right that Anakin hadn't reached full potential while it seems Bastila probably did, I mean she has been fighting the Sith she has ever reason to reach full potential as quickly as possible.

[Influence]

im jsut waiting for what nur ab will say so i cant tell him why im right! MAUHAHAHHAHA.

 

Mace Windu Vs. Malak? who wins?

 

YOu better say windu cause hes oen badd muther f*$@

[DSLuke]

Well, if they were fighting on Taris then Bastila would loose badly, she would still be looking for her lightsaber