Corruption

[alanschu]

Well, this makes me think of Zaallbar and Mission. You didn't necessarily corrupt them, but they were very sucsptible to persuasion.

 

For Mission, you could have persuaded her that she didn't need to care about her brother anymore, and force persuade Zaalbar to kill MIssion if you were dark side. From what I heard, it seems they are going to expand on that. Makes me wonder, though; are some characters DEFINITELY going to be good/bad no matter what? And, are we going to be able to force persuade on our own party members?

Some characters will likely be definitely bad or good.

 

And if you become to evil....they'll probably not be in your party anymore.

[Dark Wanderer]

I'd like to play a Dooku-like character. Both deft with charisma and a lightsaber and a few force powers. Basically if they allow more character exploration through dialogue I'll be happy. More persuade options (force or otherwise). I'd like to see Force Persuade far more a frequent an option. I mean, Obi-wan used it on storm troopers and drug pushers. I want general force persuade use.

 

Meaning that you want us to be able to know things about the other characters of the game through Force Persuadion? Like, you have a conversation with Mira about her past and then you have the option of either ask her the normal way about it, persuade her into telling it (which she might do kinda unwillingy) or Force Persuade her to do it, meaning that she won't mind because that the Force Persuade makes her think it's her own idea to tell it, instead of as in the case of the mere persuade option think of it as as a "Ok, ok if you insist!" thing...?

 

I think force persuade on Jedi characters should be ineffective and you have to rely on your wiles to convince them to do things out of character, or convince them of a different point of view.

 

Why? We all know that a Jedi isn't immune to others using the Force on him/her just because that he/she is a Jedi. This may be especially true to a character that is your apparentice (thus trusting a lot on you) or is simply a Jedi or someone far from as experienced in the ways of the Force as you are. A Jedi knows ways of resisting or defend him/herself against such use of the Force in such ways on him/her, so I do think it should be more difficult to convince a Jedi this way and nothing you'd want to rely too much on.

 

Dialogue is important, and if it can be used to solve quests rather than smashing stuff (and still gaining approx. same xp) the game becomes a whole lot more open-ended.

 

Quite right; it's important that the game will provide other solutions than plain combat and for that and other purposes, I'd gladly see more general use of the force persuade option.

[alanschu]

Palpatine pulled it off quite well...didn't he?

 

Hmm, point taken but... Palpatine was a master manipulator and it seems like he had to work very carefully for years for his mind control to bear fruit . and also, we're not going to play the game as Palpatine, so we may lack his talent <_<.

I don't think Palpatine used mind control....he just manipulated Anakin.

[Azazis]

Palpatine was thrown into the pit by Vader. Vader was not his victim, Luke was.

Palpatine's weakness was his overconfidence in his minions and his own foresight.

So his grip and control on Vader wasen't good enough. Else Vader wouldn't turn. And he failed to get grip and control over luke too. So palpetine is a failure. Overconfident indeed. Are users of the darkside so blinded by it?

 

Force persuade is effective against the weakminded. So it shouldn't work on sith lords or jedi masters tbh.

 

( Unwritten darklord rule: Always keep an eye out for young farmboys and bored princesses. Bad things happen when you don't )

[OLD SKOOL WHEELMAN]

(OLD SKOOL WHEELMAN)Well, we also have to take in consideration that he was working in utter secrecy...we don't really have that problem, do we?

 

Oh, I wouldn't know... Your other party members might notice that something's amiss somewhere and should you somehow overstep your limits (in terms of your powers of persuadion) or do something in front of your other party members who notices that soemthing's DEFINTIVELY amiss, then all hell may break lose and in a best case scenario you'll jsut have to start all over or wait until yours kills are better ;p

Well, if you already have somebody else in your party that you are manipulating, hopefully more than one, then they can take care of that...that's why you still have to be careful...I didn't mean that you can do anything you want, but that's just crazy!

 

alanschu:Never meant that...

[Dark Wanderer]

Well, if you already have somebody else in your party that you are manipulating, hopefully more than one, then they can take care of that...that's why you still have to be careful...I didn't mean that you can do anything you want, but that's just crazy!

 

Heh.. Well, easy to say, harder to do. Even if you manipulate more than one, it might still go wrong somewhere. Remember that KOTOR 2 isn't like KOTOR 1. If you manipulate one or more people in your crew, the lightsiders of the crew, like Krea, might object to it all and a fight may break out . Not an entirely unlikely scenario considering that it has been said that there will be more confrontations and such when the people in the crew have different options on what should be done, like the confrontation just before the Star Forge.

[Dead Skin Mask]

If you manipulate one or more people in your crew, the lightsiders of the crew, like Krea, might object to it all and a fight may break out .

So TSL will be like an episode of Jerry Springer?

 

Cheers!

[ampulator00]

I actually remember that you can force persuade a sith to not attempt to kill you... it was quite funny, because one his buddies realized that you were using a mind trick, and they got all angry and decided to fight you anyway. :D

 

It seems to me, though, that there should be a "persuade/force persuade" option, since I see "persuade/lie" and "persuade/briber" option.... it would make more sense to use both persuasion and force persuasion at the same time, if you ask me.

[Naso]

Why doesit have to be force persuade? Just as interesting would what I think I remember in some sort of interview, that you could influence people by your actions like in real life, if your mentor or best buddy started doing something it would complicate the moral issue and if he also got success and glory maybe it just might be enough to disillusion or maybe even *eventually* turn someone.

[FireWolf]

What I mean about force persuasion being more common is that it becomes a more useful trait, not just for dialogue with your party members, but as a means of achieving what you want. Like bluffing your way past a guard or convincing someone to help you out. Just utalitarian stuff which shows the option is more than just a bolted-on extra.

 

I think Jedi would have some knowledge that they're being manipulated through the force, they might go through with it, but they'll be real angry at you for it. I just think that if the persuade gets buffed, there needs to be obstacles like high willed individuals (jedi are strong of mind, since it is their mind which they use to manipulate the force, not this crude matter).

 

Palpatine used the Dark side to cloud the Jedi's knowledge of his actions. He manipulated Anakin through fairly conventional means: played on his ego, his youthful angst and resentment of authority, his lack of a father figure his arrogance and his desires.

 

As for manipulating your party members, if you convince your Jedi followers by conventional means to join the Dark Side, they would no longer object to you abusing the minds of your minions.

 

It has to be force persuade because this is a very under-used power that opens a lot of possibilities for achieving goals without resorting to violence. Probably not the most evil way to accomplish your goals, but certainly very manipulative. Power, in all forms, is attractive.

[Dark Wanderer]

(Dead Skin Mask) So TSL will be like an episode of Jerry Springer? 

 

Cheers!

 

 

Can't really comment ont hat since I don't "know" Jerry Soringer

 

(Naso) Why doesit have to be force persuade? Just as interesting would what I think I remember in some sort of interview, that you could influence people by your actions like in real life, if your mentor or best buddy started doing something it would complicate the moral issue and if he also got success and glory maybe it just might be enough to disillusion or maybe even *eventually* turn someone.

 

Yes, I remember that too: our actions will infludence the people in our part, but dialouge will (or rather: should!) play an important part here too, since you may need to convince other party members that your conviction is the correct one: For example, if you make an evil deed/choice, a party member might silently go along with it, but later he/she may confront you about your choice and that's when you may need to convince him/her that your choice was the right one and then he/she may come to agree and this he/she is a little corrupted. But I doubt merely actions will affect the members of the party in any case (or at least in the long run; you actions may indeed corrupt, but for the final step to be made, some dialouge should be in order).

 

(FireWolf) It has to be force persuade because this is a very under-used power that opens a lot of possibilities for achieving goals without resorting to violence. Probably not the most evil way to accomplish your goals, but certainly very manipulative. Power, in all forms, is attractive.

 

True enough that Force Peruade would have a great deal of potiental if being useable that often, After all, both Jedi and Sith alike often use this power to suit their purpose, so... but I think some might argue that if you could Force Persuade in all kinds of situations, the game'd be too easy...

[FireWolf]

The limit on force persuade can be through numerous instances. There were will-improving neural enhancers in the first game, some actions you propose will not work on some people if the action in question is entirely against their nature (a miser wont give you free credits), strong willed characters like force adept, shrewd characters and so on. I think more general use would be preferable to specific instances of its use. Being able to gleam a little more information from people than you would otherwise (without being overly charismatic) at the cost of reputation and relations with that person. Someone who uses Persuade and force persuade is a more sedate character who wants to experience more dialogue than someone who just wants to swing a lightsaber. I'd like to see this character path explored and rewarded more fully with both the option to complete quests using wit and charm and gain more of an insight or depth into the story than an action gamer.

 

Diplomatically, Jedi have been known to use force suggestion to project feeling into their speech for example when calming a situation, or emphasising a plight or point of view.

[Dark Wanderer]

The limit on force persuade can be through numerous instances. There were will-improving neural enhancers in the first game, some actions you propose will not work on some people if the action in question is entirely against their nature (a miser wont give you free credits), strong willed characters like force adept, shrewd characters and so on. I think more general use would be preferable to specific instances of its use. Being able to gleam a little more information from people than you would otherwise (without being overly charismatic) at the cost of reputation and relations with that person. Someone who uses Persuade and force persuade is a more sedate character who wants to experience more dialogue than someone who just wants to swing a lightsaber. I'd like to see this character path explored and rewarded more fully with both the option to complete quests using wit and charm and gain more of an insight or depth into the story than an action gamer.

 

Well, if it was pissible to use Force Persaude in (almost) every dialouge in the game and it was balanced by the factors you mentioned, then I suppose that a major use of FP could be accpeted by the great majority out there :D.

 

Diplomatically, Jedi have been known to use force suggestion to project feeling into their speech for example when calming a situation, or emphasising a plight or point of view.

 

Well, it goes a little further than only that. Remember that Qui-Gon used Force Persuadion (or at lest some mid-trick) on Watto to try and get him to agree to take republic credits? It didn't work, but it's a living proof of what a Jedi can do when he feels that "The end justify the means".

[SilverSun]

Well, it goes a little further than only that. Remember that Qui-Gon used Force Persuadion (or at lest some mid-trick) on Watto to try and get him to agree to take republic credits? It didn't work, but it's a living proof of what a Jedi can do when he feels that "The end justify the means".

 

Qui Gon seemed to do what he wanted/felt was right even if it went against the more typical extreme Jedi teachings. Pry why in some ways I liked the character.