Sith'Ari

[rika]

Yeah I suppose your're right - someone who enjoys SW is automatically a fan but he should at least know something about this universe. Don't get me wrongo but mostly I spend my time on SW boards and there people know everything in details so when I later post in forum like this I still have specific attitude (that is negative in your eyes).

 

It is just kinda stupid that people neglect deeper knowledge about SW and say that they don't need it. If it was created it has some meaning becouse of this.

 

I'm sensitive to Revan-related topics since there were idiotic topics about Revan some time ago so when I saw yours I thought "Oh no the next oneee" Sorry but I can't stand all that Revan talk

 

About Bastila: when I read spoilers I was glad that at last SW will have powerful female character - not of second importance like Mara Jade or Aayla Secura but real important figure. And in game devs butchered that excellent character by portraiting her as weak, undecisive and corrupted little girl. And who appeared instead of her in the first place? Revan the brainwashed macho, who of course, saved silly Bastila from clutches of another powerful male Malak.Bastila is constantly male-dominated and devs implanted her all stereotypical female defects, only to show how weak she is, in comparison to Revan. Yuck.

Bastila could become a cult hero like Luke Skywalker, Kyle Katarn or Obi-Wan and instead she was broken forever. That is sad.

 

You may view my posts as a flame war but I think that it was just a good discussion and nothing wrong with that. At least I forced people to think and invent wise arguments. This is positive, admit it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

About the discussion part...well this post exceeded my expectations. I thought it would only at 2 replies but instead inadvertenly, nearly instigated a flame war between fans. But it got people talking about something else other than the delayed release dates, which gets props then.

 

About Bastila, I don't view her character as broken. I've met some people in real life who can be as pretentious, snotty and arrogant as she is but some of them did have that flicker of vulnerability and goodness inside.

 

If you thought she was undecisive, then maybe she was. But consider that she's young, maybe not even 20 and she has this whole fate of the universe thrust on her shoulders. She may have had Jedi training, which I guess is a mixture of Zen and military training, so she knows how to defend herself and kill in battle. But, try to guide someone who is considered a hero in the eyes of the Republic and Jedi? Wouldn't you be a little daunted? A little unsure if what you're doing is the right choice? Wouldn't you wish those tight-mouth Jedi masters opened their mouths and offered their opinions and advice instead of leaving it up to fate? And look where that got them, dead!

 

As for being male-dominated, to me she put Carth and Canderous in their place when they tried their lame machoism.

 

Bastila wasn't weak. If you look at the story, she wasn't weak at all. For instance, she put herself in danger to confront Revan and destroy the Sith menace in the beginning. Secondly, she argued with the Jedi Council about giving Revan back his/her memories because she believed it to be the right course of action. Thirdly, she did not shy from her duty and ran away in hiding like Jolee. And you noticed when there was any cutscene decision making like deciding to go to Dantooine or what escape plan for the Endar Spire, Bastila was the one who made sure a decision was made and stamped down Carth's stupid suggestions. Bastila also risked her life to save Revan from Malak, whereas Carth when given the opportunity ran away like a wuss instead of saving Mission. Some hero of the Republic, huh?

 

Also, for the DS storyline, Bastila served as Revan's right hand. She was the one who anticipated and executed his/her plans.

 

For the LS storyline, you could see that keeping Revan's identity a secret was tearing her up inside. And when you're secret is finally revealed, she didn't hesitate in admitting her place in the deception. What was tragic about the LS storyline was that Bastila might not have been redeemed, and died as a Sith. I frankly was glad to be able to save her.

 

You cannot deny that Bastila had the best voice acting in the game. Jennifer Hale was fabulous.

 

As for cult status, if you look at some of the responses in the forum. It seems she is a cult hero to some. And that counts for something.

 

As for the Revan macho thing... you seem to be under the mistaken impression that Revan's character is set in stone as a guy. Remember, Revan is who wanted him/her to be. And if you wanted, you could play him as a sensitive, Light caring guy.... <_<

[Darth Nuke]

I don't believe the Sith'ari was Revan, and I don't think people should base it off the DS part of the Game. For the DS part of the Game isn't continuity, LFL always goes with the LS. They'll go with the lightside in KOTOR2 3 4 and whenever the games end. IF it's lightside the Prophecy doesn't come true. I also believe it was the developers intention for the Sith'ari to be Anakin.

 

For he destroyed all the Jedi, the sith, and brought Balance to the Force. He just didn't come back to lead them, yet.

[Nur Ab Sal]

Yes you're right Nuke Official Site considers light side ending as only truth.

 

Rika: your defence of Bastila is greatest I've ever read. But I think that she was wasted anyway cause she would be ideal main character for KOTOR. In jedi knight series we have Kyle Katarn with all his downfalls and triumphs and anger and we can observe his way to the rank of a jedi master. I hoped that I'll see something like that with Bastila and instead she was put to second plan only to make room for Revan. That's why I think Revan is unnecessary character. Even in this thread people treat revan as superman comparable to movie characters while in my opinion Bastila was more important with her battle meditation.

 

Drew Karpyshyn and Elizabeth Hand are writing currently book series based on KOTOR I wonder how they will show Bastila - let's hope not as it was in the game.

[KOTORFanactic]

In my opinion, both Revan and Bastila are very important.

 

Without Bastila's Battle Meditation, the Republic would not hav been able to survive as long as it did. Bastila helped the Republic win key victories, which helped the Republic to hold on to the core worlds for as long as they did.

 

Revan's hidden knowledge about the starmaps made him indispensible. Without that knowledge, the search for the starforge might hav taken a lot longer, longer than the Republic could survive, even with Bastila and her Battle Meditation. I am speaking out of lightside terms.

[Nur Ab Sal]

You know devs could just invent something new instead of starmap run. For example Bastila could find ancient holocron or something. There are hundreds of solutions so I still think that she could be main character without Revan's interference. And we'll see the whole impact of Malak's scourge when some official

data will be published by WOTC or someone. Just like we have data about Imperial Fleet before Endor we should get data about standoff between Malak and Republic.

Then we'll see if it was as desperate as game says.

[KOTORFanactic]

But if the desperation of the situation was toned down, i beleive that the story would not be as affective. I am guessing u will disagree Nur.

 

I got the starwars dvd trilogy around 1 hour ago, and the basis behind that story is the desperate fight of the rebellion against the empire(preordered it before u ask).

 

Think about it. If u had 2 superpowers, facing off against one another, who r just about exactly equal in ships, troops and resources, it would not make an as effective story.

 

In desperate fights like the small rebellion against the empire, the fights put u on the edge of ur seat, because in hoth and endor, the rebellion r fighting for survival. Would it be as goodd if the rebellion could afford to lose endor, and could afford to hav nearly all there forces on hoh wiped out. I think not.

 

This is the basis of KOTOR, the Republics desperate fight for survival against the sith empire. If Bastila was to suddenly shoot off to find the starmaps without help, the Republic would lose even more battles that they couldnt afford to lose, Bastila would most likely be killed, or captured and turned by Malak. (she was both in some ppls stories i know).

 

If the fight was the Republic, equal in resources to the Sith Empire, they would not have as much need of Bastila. Only to find the starmaps, and even then, she would most likely be killed/captured and turned bu Malak.

Edited September 17, 2004 by KOTORFanactic

[Nur Ab Sal]

In my vision of KOTOR Bastila would play the role of Luke Skywalker. She may be

suffer several downfalls but in the end she would save herself by herself from darkness and killed Malak - just like Luke who alone resisted darkside and alone defeated Vader despite his impulsive nature.

 

In one word: in my vision of KOTOR Bastila is main character, you can make her choices and she doesn't need stupid Revan to save her or not.

 

For now I have no opinion on Malak's Scourge. When I'll see statistics then I''ll have opinion.

 

So you get SW DVD today lucky one? Tell me then is it true that GL made new changes? I can't believe despite press info. Tell me tell me...

[KOTORFanactic]

So you get SW DVD today lucky one? Tell me then is it true that GL made new changes? I can't believe despite press info. Tell me tell me...

 

I will tell u by monday for certain, maybe sunday.

 

Bastila as the main character would be nice, but as Revan, with your own name input (at least until the leviathan), your own customization, to me, he seems to be an extension of me into the starwars universe. To put it simply, i feel like i am Revan, and i like it.

 

Customzing Bastila would be nice aswell, but would it ruly hav the same effect if u customized Bastila to be a tough, rugged male, rather than the gorgeous vision of beauty she already is.

 

(edit) this is a nce discussion we are having aint it

Edited September 17, 2004 by KOTORFanactic

[alcaldemb]

Hahaha Ravan yeah. Maybe you've heard about Anakin Skywalker?

 

Revan was a dumbass who didn't even know who he really is. He's one of the weakest dark lords ever. Do you really think that Palpatine or Vader would let jedi council to brainwash them? Not to mention that Anakin survived fall into molten lava without any help and stupid Revan almost passed away only becouse Malak stroke his bridge (and Bastila saved him). And there is Exar Kun who was as powerful as Vader and it took 20 000 Jedi to destroy him...Exar Kun was able to erase entire star systems with his magic - something that idiotic Malak&Revan couldn't do.

 

I really have big dislike toward KOTOR -only fans. These guys don't have any knowledge about Star Wars, Dark Side or Sith History and all they know is what they learned from KOTOR.

 

Girl read Dark Side Sourcebook, Jedi Academy Trilogy, Power of the Jedi, Tales of the Jedi and other sith-related things and you will then know that Revan is no one.

How could he be a sithari if he was such a looser? Anakin Skywalker is probably a sithari- he was created by pure force and exterminated all jedi order by himself. Cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Guy did it ever occur to you that maybe you can tone it down some. We are talking about games and fictional characters. Maybe you should go and look at life outside of Star Wars, yes there is one, and not berate people who don't invest their entire exsistence into something that while entertaining is not important. Try not to get an annuerism over this. I will have to remind myself that when Episode III comes out to find you waiting in line three days before and ask you how long you have been a Star Trek fan. Should I run from your plastic lightsaber attack, or are you the inspiration for comic book guy in the Simpsons?

[Sweeper]

IMO Bastila IS the main charakter in the game. only she isn't you. and you are not Revan. you choose your path long befor you get to know who you are. revan is just your past and your body. it is not important how strong Revan was. you get strong through what you do! for Bastila is important but she is human and therefor depends on other people: you! and so the future lies in your hands. it does not count if you change it by emploding stars and suchlike or just by beeing at the right place at the right time.

if Bastila hadn't been Revan would be dead and if he would not have been Bastila would have fallen. they are strong together. Thats my opinion.

and i don't think the Sith'Ari- prophecy is about Revan.

1.) it doesn't really fit.

2.) Yuthara mentioned it when she was explaining the Sith- believs. (most i can imagine is that it was to seduce the player to the dark side)

[GhostofAnakin]

Thanks to Anakin/Vader we have a New Jedi Era today plus Unified Force theory and other stuff. It is only him that did it.

 

And by the way: this game doesn't belong to Revan, but to Lucasarts. Revan is only a failed idea that poisoned the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

In your opinion.

 

Too often your posts are just your personal opinion, but you state them as fact.

[Nur Ab Sal]

Guy did it ever occur to you that maybe you can tone it down some.  We are talking about games and fictional characters.  Maybe you should go and look at life outside of Star Wars, yes there is one, and not berate people who don't invest their entire exsistence into something that while entertaining is not important.  Try not to get an annuerism over this.  I will have to remind myself that when Episode III comes out to find you waiting in line three days before and ask you how long you have been a Star Trek fan.  Should I run from your plastic lightsaber attack, or are you the inspiration for comic book guy in the Simpsons?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Now it is you who berate me

 

Stop shouting you fool. It is obvious that you were too lazy to read all posts

in this thread. Revan and Sithari case was already explained between us. I have already apologized Rika and currently discussion is "what if bastila be a main character" you can participate or get lost...

 

By the way: I live also outside SW. As a history student I'm used to read a lot books and discuss agressively. This my habit and a habit of my fellow students.

I can discuss with you on such wide array of topics as German Reformation or Greek Prostitution. Sci-Fi is my hobby and I like Dune, Star Wars, Saga of Seven Suns, Cyberpunk Forgotten Realms and other unreal worlds. Being well educated in Star Wars is very easy to me, considering that I usually read 15-20 historical books and articles a month, so exploring star wars is even easier and as fun as sitting in a local pub what I also do. Maybe for you reading those 100 star wars novels would be a torment considering that you were too lazy to read this topic as a whole and you have read only the beginning.

[Chemix]

Nur Ab Sal, the point of the matter is, KOTOR isn't your vision, KOTOR was written so anybody could play as a character that acts like them, and looks how they want. If it were bastila u couldn't be anything but a pre-perscribed female character. I don't like how they had the bastilla character start off as an uncaring self imposing thankless... either, but hey u get a chance to see a softer side if you work at it, and it wasn't my choice, so I deal with it. Revan was the main character and I'm glad, revan wasn't nonsense or stupid, he stopped a mandalorian invasion with a nearly crippled republic. He had amnesia, he was manipulated, he was thrown into the front lines of a loosing battle over Taris.

[I don't like usernames]

Yes you're right Nuke Official Site considers light side ending as only truth.

 

Rika: your defence of Bastila is greatest I've ever read. But I think that she was wasted anyway cause she would be ideal main character for KOTOR. In jedi knight series we have Kyle Katarn with all his downfalls and triumphs and anger and we can observe his way to the rank of a jedi master. I hoped that I'll see something like that with Bastila and instead she was put to second plan only to make room for Revan. That's why I think Revan is unnecessary character. Even in this thread people treat revan as superman comparable to movie characters while in my opinion Bastila was more important with her battle meditation.

 

Drew Karpyshyn and Elizabeth Hand are writing currently book series based on KOTOR I wonder how they will show Bastila - let's hope not as it was in the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Revan is/was in my opinion not a failed character concept at all, he was needed both as the catalyst for the events that led up to the game as well as it's resolution if only for the simple fact that the ragtag band of characters that compromise your party in KOTOR need a leader and none of the other characters save Canderous ever really struck me as being able to lead a team and in the world of Star Wars morally ambiguous characters like Canderous wouldn't make a good leader to go on a quest for the Star Forge or even the Jedi order in general. Bastilla never really struck me as someone who'd be able to lead herself let alone others through some epic quest from the way she behaves in game, she has little to no empathy with the "common" people and absolutely lacks the ability to identify with them (that doesn't mean I don't think there would be possibilities for Bastilla to eventually become a great leader but not until she's matured more emotionally which is IMO exactly what her interaction, her bond with Revan (sep. male Revan) can provide to her.

 

I do agree that Bastilla would have a greater affinity with the force Revan and could possibly become more powerful than Revan ever was. If you'd ask me for a comparison with other well known Jedi I'd guess that Revan would be about as powerful (in force ability) as Mace Windu.

 

However what you seem to forget, Nur is that power is not only defined by your affinity with the force or physical prowess but is in fact a combination of Factors what made Revan a powerful and feared Sith Lord was IMO not his command of the force but the simple fact that he can command the force combined with a formidable intellect and strategic insight coupled with great charisma, these are the two characteristics that define Revan not his awesome command of the force (although it was well above average and certainly within the top 5% or so of force users).

[GhostofAnakin]

Nur Ab Sal, the point of the matter is, KOTOR isn't your vision, KOTOR was written so anybody could play as a character that acts like them, and looks how they want.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That first sentence is 100% accurate.

[Sweeper]

so you are a history student, Nur?

that explains everything!

 

you just forget that the SW universe isn't real and so doesn't really fit. so all we say here is OUR expended universe. you can't persuade anyone, because what is true in your universe can be wrong in ours. (and not all SW stories are really linked together. they are seperate fantasies! what is true in one may not be true in the other!)

the SW- plot is just not history-student-and-other-idiots-like-me-prove.