EnderAndrew Posted June 30, 2004 Posted June 30, 2004 I'd love to see it, but I doubt that's the case. I think the hidden indentity card has already been played.
Dead Skin Mask Posted June 30, 2004 Posted June 30, 2004 Hahaha Maul challenged two weak jedi and lost. Exar extinguished hundreds of them without a scratch. He was an unstoppable opponent. Exar Kun is my favorite Sith Lord hands down! Its nice to see so many fans of the comics on these boards. I hope Obsidian introduces some familiar faces from the comics in the Sith Lords. I hear you do get to go to Dxun in the Sith Lords where Freedon Nadd's tomb is but if I am remembering the comics properly his spirit was destroyed by Exar Kun with the use of Naga Sadows amulet. Which makes going to this planet pretty lame because he won't be able to manifest himself to you. Naga Sadow and Marka Ragnos are tied for my second favorite Sith of all time. Vader is in the third spot but that could change after I see Palpatine in action killing some Jedi scum in Episode III. Cheers!
Nur Ab Sal Posted June 30, 2004 Posted June 30, 2004 Exar Kun is the coolest character of all Star Wars Universe! HERMOCRATES: Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned. SOCRATES: This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale.
nightcleaver Posted June 30, 2004 Posted June 30, 2004 wild speculation: Atreas and Atris = Sunriders in hiding? It would work with the Master/Apprentice theme the devs were talking about. Vima being resentful of how Nomi ignored training her. There was some talk of how Atreas was supposed to be a mysterious mentor type figure to the PC. Maybe some sort of atonement? Atris/Vima resentful of it...keeping her dark side anger in check while remembering her cherished memories of her own mentor --Ulic Qel-Droma. Parallels the original trilogy in a way too: Atreas/Nomi being the Ben Kenobi figure seeking atonement for failure of training Anakin with Nomi's failure to train Atris/Vima. "Help me Nomi Sunrider, you're my only hope." *just some WILD speculation. They could just do it quite up-front though, ender... if they were really going to do it. I don't think Atris is old enough to fit the role. People seem to think white hair means old, but she doesn't really look that old. Given (just for a moment here) that Atris isn't that old, it's odd to put them as related because of their similar hair color. White hair seems like a unique and interesting thing to add to a character. For Kreia, she seems about the right age. I doubt it it will happen, though, even if Atris were middle aged.
Leferd Posted June 30, 2004 Posted June 30, 2004 oops. by Atreas i meant Kreia. kreia = nomi atris = vima i hope that makes more sense. "Things are funny...are comedic, because they mix the real with the absurd." - Buzz Aldrin."P-O-T-A-T-O-E" - Dan Quayle
EnderAndrew Posted June 30, 2004 Posted June 30, 2004 So long as it was upfront, and not the big plot secret, I'm down with that.
Darth Jebus Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 Hahaha Maul challenged two weak jedi and lost. Exar extinguished hundreds of them without a scratch. He was an unstoppable opponent. Exar Kun is my favorite Sith Lord hands down! Its nice to see so many fans of the comics on these boards. I hope Obsidian introduces some familiar faces from the comics in the Sith Lords. I hear you do get to go to Dxun in the Sith Lords where Freedon Nadd's tomb is but if I am remembering the comics properly his spirit was destroyed by Exar Kun with the use of Naga Sadows amulet. Which makes going to this planet pretty lame because he won't be able to manifest himself to you. Naga Sadow and Marka Ragnos are tied for my second favorite Sith of all time. Vader is in the third spot but that could change after I see Palpatine in action killing some Jedi scum in Episode III. Cheers! I'd really like to know more about the comics. Particularly the Exar Kun war. I know about Ulic's fall and redemption and to me, that's one of the best stories in the entire Star Wars universe. But the specifics of the war kinda lose me. Was this the Sith War that is referenced so much in Star Wars lore.
Dead Skin Mask Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 I'd really like to know more about the comics. Particularly the Exar Kun war. I know about Ulic's fall and redemption and to me, that's one of the best stories in the entire Star Wars universe. But the specifics of the war kinda lose me. Was this the Sith War that is referenced so much in Star Wars lore. Both these sites should be useful to you. http://www.forceacademy.com/Dark/Sith_lecture8.htm http://www.i-j-t.com/Sithinfo/isthistory.html
Leferd Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 Well the story of Ulic and Exar Kun are connected and told in Dark Lords of the Sith and The Sith War: SPOILERS *once again putting on geek hat* Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma were both powerful jedi who approached the dark side for different reasons and in different ways. Kun was a relatively unknown jedi who and nasty bugger who was interested in gaining more power and learning the forbidden knowledge of Sith teachings. He was goaded/tempted by Sith spirits and embraced the dark side. Ulic Qel-Droma was a famous and well known hero of the republic. He did not have the thirst in knowledge that Kun had but was already satisfied and proud of his own abilities. There was an uprising in far off star system and it was discovered that the instigators of this uprising were powered by the dark side and sith teachings. Ulic believed that the best way to defeat this menace was to learn the secrets of the dark side and destroy them from within. His master Arca, brother Cay, and his lover Nomi Sunrider tried to dissuade him to no avail. He was confident in his own ability to resist the dark side. So of course...his own pride got the best of him and he joined this uprising and became their leader. The unthinkable happened as the greatest and most reknowned of the Jedi fell to the dark side. Eventually he teamed up with Exar Kun and became his sith apprentice as they became the Dark Lords of the Sith . Ulic recruited the Mandalorian clans to join his war and he became the military general of the Sith fleet while Exar Kun sought to convert and eradicate the Jedi. The details of this war was relayed in KoTOR by the Jedi Council and Jolee Bindo. Kun eventually retreated to Yavin 4. As for Ulic, his brother Cay tried to bring him back to the light side but was killed by Ulic in combat. Ulic could not believe what he had done and that was when he abandoned the dark side. However it was too late as at that moment Nomi Sunrider in semi-rage used her power to permanantly block the Force from Ulic. (similiar to the PC in KoTOR 2) Ulic then spent the rest of his life seeking isolation and a quiet death -full of grief and guilt until Nomi's daughter, Vima tracked him down so she could be trained in the ways of the jedi. "Things are funny...are comedic, because they mix the real with the absurd." - Buzz Aldrin."P-O-T-A-T-O-E" - Dan Quayle
Dead Skin Mask Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 Ulic was killed when a pilot from Sylvar and Nomi Sunriders ship shot him in the the chest. He was always weak and keeping him alive is the only mistake Exar Kun made. Ulic Qel-Droma is a SW character I down right loath. Cheers!
Leferd Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 Exar Kun was completely one dimensional --even for a sith lord. A nasty powerhungry jedi who fell in love with sith teachings. Ulic Qel-Droma was a tragic figure similar to Macbeth (but not quite) Macbeth. Of course, Veitch and Anderson are no Alan Moore or Neil Gaiman as comic book writers but they managed to make Qel-Droma a sympathetic character who fell from grace. "Redemption" was different from the other TotJ books in that it was the only one whose story was not in an epic scale. I'd have to say that it was a moving story about one man trying to escape from his past even as that past was trying to catch up to him. Now that the cat is out of the bag (ie the shooting)...don't trivialize it. It ends the Ulic Qel-Droma saga complete in the literal and metaphorical sense. "Things are funny...are comedic, because they mix the real with the absurd." - Buzz Aldrin."P-O-T-A-T-O-E" - Dan Quayle
Darth Jebus Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 I'd really like to know more about the comics. Particularly the Exar Kun war. I know about Ulic's fall and redemption and to me, that's one of the best stories in the entire Star Wars universe. But the specifics of the war kinda lose me. Was this the Sith War that is referenced so much in Star Wars lore. Both these sites should be useful to you. http://www.forceacademy.com/Dark/Sith_lecture8.htm http://www.i-j-t.com/Sithinfo/isthistory.html Thanks!
EnderAndrew Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 I wonder if they'll reprint some of the comics and graphic novels with KOTOR's popularity.
Dead Skin Mask Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 Ulic Qel-Droma was a tragic figure similar to Macbeth (but not quite) Macbeth. I agree but I didn't like Macbeth's character either. Personally I found Ulic to be a cowering weakling in the end just like Macbeth. I related to Exar Kun much more as he struggled with the Jedi teachings and the darkness both he and his master knew lied dormant within his heart. Exar fell to the Darkside and embraced it's power Ulic was too weak to accept the choices he had made and continue down the dark path that would one day give him the power to control the galaxy. I respect you're opinion on the matter however this is an instance where two fans will have to agree to disagree. P.S. I didn't mean to trivialize the significance of Ulic Qel-Droma's death that was not my intention at all. I found his death to be rather fitting really; killed by a cowardly pilot, a dishonorable death, truely befitting a coward such as Ulic. Cheers!
EnderAndrew Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 Macbeth is a pawn. He is easily led bo betrayal by his wife. He doesn't make decisions for himself. Othello and Julius Ceasar are much better plays.
EnderAndrew Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 That's closer, but still not perfect. Brutus was a loyal Roman who both really loved Caesar and Rome. He did what he felt was best for both. If Brutus did not stab Caesar, he would be killed by others. And Rome needed a stronger ruler. I think Brutus is one of the best tragic heroes in classic literature.
Dead Skin Mask Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 There are some discrepancies I agree but Exar Kun was a proud, charismatic, military genius, and warrior who was cut down in his prime because he was betrayed by his most trusted colleague in the form of his apprentice Ulic Qel-Droma. Cheers!
Nur Ab Sal Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 Ulic Qel Droma was weak and undecisive. Exar was better sith and I don't agree that he was simple character. In fact it is multi-dimensional figure: troubled jedi in the beginning who seeks greater knowledge and against his will fall to the dark side, great warrior, mage, skillful strategist...he has many faces and enigmatic charm. Qel Droma is as complicated but in negative sense. Ultimately these two form most interesting team in SW universe. HERMOCRATES: Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned. SOCRATES: This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale.
Leferd Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 Wow. Now I feel really bad for even bringing up Macbeth. Never thought the discussion would actually turn to Shakespeare...my apologies. I have no real problems with Exar Kun as a character. But there was really nothing tragic about him. He was conceived to be this baddy villian and he fit the role. Ulic Qel-Droma was the main protaganist of the TotJ series and from the beginning it was alluded that he would eventually fall to the dark side. The series chronicled his rise within the Jedi order and then his fall and eventual, but tragic redemption. What you saw as weakness was really the good in him...the feeling of guilt and remorse. He joined the dark side with noble intentions --hoping to defeat the dark forces by infiltrating their ranks, learning their secrets, and using that to defeat them. His pride got the best of him though and he did fall. It's not so much that he was undecisive but that he never fully gave in to the darkside like Exar Kun did. I'm sorry but Exar Kun never really put up much of a defense in trying to reject it. He was already falling to the dark side before he even got to the sith tombs, before he stole the jedi holocron. His co called defense against the sith spirit was just simply a futile case of "denial." He had already fallen before that. But yeah, you're right. Exar Kun was so much more of a Sith Lord than Ulic ever was. And I don't think Exar Kun or Ulic Qel-Droma in their "partnership" ever really trusted one another. They needed each other but hated each others guts, so wasn't this so called "Betrayal" expected? Silly Exar Kun. That is the Sith way after all... "Things are funny...are comedic, because they mix the real with the absurd." - Buzz Aldrin."P-O-T-A-T-O-E" - Dan Quayle
Nur Ab Sal Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 And I don't think Exar Kun or Ulic Qel-Droma in their "partnership" ever really trusted one another. They needed each other but hated each others guts, so wasn't this so called "Betrayal" expected? Silly Exar Kun. That is the Sith way after all... I don't agree. Don't get yourself confused with KOTOR's vision of the Sith. We don't have evidences that Exar and Ulic actually believe in sociodarwinian philosophy of Uthar Wynn...they were seekers of forbidden knowledge and don't show hatred toward Jedi like Palpatine. Actually Exar Kun wanted to transform Jedi by enriching them with ancient magic. Exar wasn't self-crowned usurper like Revan or Malak who knew nothing about ancient sith (or at least very little) he was awarded with the mantle by Marka Ragnos and other rulers of Sith Empire, thus he is last rightful heir to their traditions. And in ancient sith empire killing own master wasn't a strict rule. Sadow killed Simus becouse situation forced him... HERMOCRATES: Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned. SOCRATES: This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale.
Leferd Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 Ok...now we're heading into territory I never read about: the ancient sith books. If what you say is true, then great, my bad. What I am more interested in was about the stories themselves concerning Qel-Droma and Kun. Qel-Droma was supposed to be the tragic hero figure. Kun was set up to be the great baddie villain. They approached the dark side for different reasons and goals. Qel-Droma wanted to defeat the dark side by using its secrets against itself. Kun wanted to embrace and learn about the dark side for his own personal gain. There was nothing inherently altruistic about Kun. The more followers he had, the more powerful he could become. As to which of the 2 characters the creators cared more about consider this: Kevin J. Anderson used Exar Kun as his main baddie for his Jedi Academy books and tied it in with the TotJ series. Ulic was first introduced in the Dark Empire series as a warning to Jedi about the follies of learning the dark side. Ulic had 2 series about his rise within the jedi order: (KoTOR & The Freedon Nadd Uprising) 1 about his fall: (Dark Lords of the Sith) 1 about the Sith War: (The Sith War) 1 about his redemption (Redemption) The main protaganist in the books above was Ulic. Sure the spotlight was shared with Nomi Sunrider and Exar Kun, but Ulic was the constant. And in all of that, the series that was given the most care was Redemption. You could see it in the detail of the art work (drawn by Chris Gosset whose previous work in the series was mediocre). You could see it in the writing. It was the most personal and character driven story of the series. It dealt with Ulic as a man. Not as a (fallen) Jedi. The one flaw in the book was that Anderson tried to fit in too many plotlines in the story which all converged on Ulic. 1) Ulic hiding from his past 2) Nomi trying to rebuild the Jedi and forget Ulic 3) Vima seeking Jedi training 4) Sylvar trying to purge her darkside anger (centered on Ulic) Ulic was able to redeem himself by helping the other three. Though blinded to the Force, he knew the nature of the Force as much as any Jedi Master and understood how the Dark Side worked. As far as Exar Kun...yeah. He was a baddass villain. "Things are funny...are comedic, because they mix the real with the absurd." - Buzz Aldrin."P-O-T-A-T-O-E" - Dan Quayle
Nur Ab Sal Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 Nice arguments, but I was talking about your last sentence. You didn't refer to it completely. HERMOCRATES: Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned. SOCRATES: This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale.
Gizka Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 The best sith ever was Revan then Count Dooku Tryandus, then Ajunta Pall and then Anakin Skywalker after stupid Padme was dead.
Jad'en Posted July 2, 2004 Posted July 2, 2004 The best sith ever was Revan then Count Dooku Tryandus, then Ajunta Pall and then Anakin Skywalker after stupid Padme was dead. You are confusing Sith, The Galactic Empire, and Dark Jedi Gizka... Anakin was a Dark Jedi as he was a lord in the Galactic Empire (Not a sith empire) Count Dooku/Lord Tyranus = Dark Jedi (Apprentice to Darth Sideous) Revan = I loved my Revan and im sure everyone also loved their own character...either good sith or good jedi. <_< Ajunta Pall = Pure 100% freshly squeezed Sith Juice. Btw for all those who dont know Darth is a title for a Dark Jedi and Sith Lord or other titles are for the sith...do not confuse the two. The best Sith ever was indeed Exar Kun though, "Thanks to you Exar Kun the Sith will never die" quote Marka Ragnos
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