The It Sucks Thread

[Adria Teksuni]

I'm sure all of you have noticed that I recently closed a crapload of threads concerning the latest announcement about the release dates. I understand that a LOT of you are disappointed.

 

Frankly, I am too. I would have rather them held back the XBox version in order to make it the simultaneous release they promised.

 

However, that is not the case.

 

Still, FYI, the reason I closed all those threads is because there were so MANY of them, with some really nasty posts in them.

 

This thread will give y'all the opportunity to rant, rave, and otherwise say why it's not fair, etc.

 

HOWEVER.

 

Insults to Microsoft, Bioware, and/or LucasArts will not be tolerated, as per the TOS of the board.

 

Insulting other members will not be tolerated, as per the TOS of the board.

 

Saying what is going on is unfair is one thing, saying that LA is a @)#($*)(@#*%()@#*$ or whatever is not.

 

Please keep this thread at least somewhat within boundaries.

 

PLEASE NOTE: THIS WILL BE THE ONLY THREAD PERMITTED ON THESE FORA CONCERNING THIS SUBJECT MATTER. NO OTHER THREADS/POLLS WILL BE PERMITTED. IF IT GETS LOCKED DOWN BECAUSE IT GETS OUT OF HAND DUE TO LANGUAGE, FLAMING, OR BADMOUTHING OTHER COMPANIES, THERE WILL NOT BE ANOTHER ONE UP. PERIOD.

[Judge Hades]

Its not fair, but I have a fair solution in my eyes. I just won't buy the game. I'll play it by other means. Once was bad enough, but twice when they stated they wouldn't going to do it is even worse. As a PC Gamer, I will not put up with that kind of bullcrap when there are alternatives.

[Craftsman]

Hades is right.

[Craftsman]

Oh well. I guess we just have to wait. <_<

[jaguars4ever]

Its not fair, but I have a fair solution in my eyes.  I just won't buy the game.  I'll play it by other means.  Once was bad enough, but twice when they stated they wouldn't going to do it is even worse.  As a PC Gamer, I will not put up with that kind of bullcrap when there are alternatives.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ah yes, the ol' "alterernative method of product acquiration" routine never fails!

 

Not to mention the use of emulators...

 

*whistles, and walks off*

[Craftsman]

Is there even a reason?

[Jedi Master D Murda]

My feelings are with you PC gamers. I am an Xbox owner and will be getting KOTOR II for it but if the positions were switched I would be devastated. Hopefully nothing will be spoiled for you guys when Xboxers get the game.

[Judge Hades]

It will be just like the first time around. Spoilers abound. Obsidian might as well just spill the whole plot now because the PC Gamers will come across anyway unless they stay off the forums and related sites on the Internet.

[nuoli]

Actually, I want to take a moment out to give a big thanks to the devs at Obsidian. Working on a game with a legacy like KOTOR must be nuts, and I KNOW you guys don't get much sleep at night. KOTOR completely redefined what a "good game" to me meant, and if there's any team that can pick up the slack, I have no doubt its you. Special thanks to Akari for answering our questions!

 

But as to the release date...

 

Like many of you guys, I was sorely disappointed when I heard the news, to the point of withdrawing a pre-order for the game. If I couldn't have my KOTOR by Christmas, then they couldn't have my $50. But now that things have calmed down a bit, I want to state my position -- what I think is the common position of most of us -- here.

 

#1 Question is why. I think there are two possibilities -- either LA rushed production of the XBOX version, and there's a lot of bugtesting that needs to be done; or both versions are done, but LA just doesn't want the PC version out by Christmas. Motivations could be to spur XBOX sales, increase pent-up demand, whatever. As willing as I was initially to adopt the second possibility, I strongly suspect this is NOT the case. Why?

 

-Risk. The game could be good, but it could also not be all that great. Why release half your product when reviews and spoilers could potentially REDUCE demand?

-The XBOX theory. I hate to say this, but not a lot of people are going to buy an XBOX just for this game, when the PC release is guaranteed two months later. I just don't buy it.

-Market economics support possibility #1. Console games cost a lot, aren't as vulnerable to pirating, and don't go down in price as quickly as computer games. Good for winter sales. As the devs, previews, and interviews have noted, LucasArts has been pushing for an earlier release. But still, why NOT release both versions if at all possible? UNLESS a bug-ridden, unstable PC version would reduce critical acclaim? (Like KOTOR1!)

 

#2 Question now is what to do. As much as I sympathize with Obsidian, and understand LucasArt's position, I'm still not happy. Why? Because like all of you, I wanted that simultaneous release! Furthermore, if market pressures are pushing for an early release on the XBOX, there HAVE to be consequences that reverbate in the quality of the game. In short, they made a sacrifice to please half the customers, and we're stuck on the other side of the fence. But the sacrifice affects us too!

 

So here's what I propose. Let's give LA a fifteen-day "warning-shot." You acknowledge the issue, apologize, and we'll forgive. Some of us. If not, let's use market economics to remind them that we are, in fact, the buyers: withdraw your pre-orders. Better yet, if you can do it, wait a week after release to buy it in the store. That should be a bitter reminder to them that the market can lash both ways.

[Judge Hades]

If the X-Boxers want to support the PC gamers in this, don't buy the game til January 2.

[jaguars4ever]

Better yet, if you can do it, wait a week after release to buy it in the store. That should be a bitter reminder to them that the market can lash both ways.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wouldn't Hades err...method accomplish that "market reminder" somwhat more vehemently?

[Judge Hades]

I was going to say wait til the PC/International versions were out but that would be stretching it. :D

[Salsabettis]

So here's what I propose. Let's give LA a fifteen-day "warning-shot." You acknowledge the issue, apologize, and we'll forgive. Some of us. If not, let's use market economics to remind them that we are, in fact, the buyers: withdraw your pre-orders. Better yet, if you can do it, wait a week after release to buy it in the store. That should be a bitter reminder to them that the market can lash both ways.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I bet a lot of people here think not buying the game for a week or two just to show LA that we do play a part in the process is a great idea, but how many of us will actually do that? Plus, most if not all of the people posting here will be buying the game eventually, so LA wins in the end anywho.

 

Us PC gamers just have to suck it up and wait. I will have a two month break from the boards when the game is released in December, and will not return until I have finished the game to avoid spoilers.

[nuoli]

Piracy kills good companies. No one owes you a game; you paid nothing in exchange for their promise of a simultaneous release, therefore you are owed nothing if they don't back it up. This capitalism -- we exchange value for value -- and to take by force what is not yours runs counter to everything we believe. I'm upset, but I'll not sacrifice my morals -- and my good sense! -- for the sake of making a bad point.

[Judge Hades]

I expect people to keep their word. If LA can't be moral enough to keep their word then I am not moral enough to pay for their game.

[nuoli]

I bet a lot of people here think not buying the game for a week or two just to show LA that we do play a part in the process is a great idea, but how many of us will actually do that?  Plus, most if not all of the people posting here will be buying the game eventually, so LA wins in the end anywho. 

 

Us PC gamers just have to suck it up and wait.  I will have a two month break from the boards when the game is released in December, and will not return until I have finished the game to avoid spoilers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If enough people do it, waiting a week will produce the desired effect. Most games play by a "momentum sales" effect; that is, lower-than-expected first week earnings will have LA running to the corporate boardroom. They'll get my money in the end -- Obsidian deserves it -- but I want LA to understand it's their wallet on the line too.

[Judge Hades]

4 weeks would have a better effect than 1.

[Craftsman]

True that

[nuoli]

I expect people to keep their word.  If LA can't be moral enough to keep their word then I am not moral enough to pay for their game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

While I respect the viewpoint you bring to these boards, my opinion on the matter is this: if I build you a computer and ship it to you late, does that give you the right to keep it without paying me? Even if you accept eye-for-an-eye justice, what a hard bargain you drive!

 

4 weeks would have a better effect than 1. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It sure would ). But can you wait that long, hehe? Maybe we can compromise on two? B)

[Adria Teksuni]

I didn't put it in my initial post, but I will, and I'm putting it here in the hopes that everyone else will see it as well.

 

This will be the ONLY thread permitted to discuss the topic. No other threads, poll, etc. will be allowed in these fora.

[jaguars4ever]

Some of you who say that the delay is onlly 2 months need to also consider the lack of good cRPG's at the moment. If there were alternative cRPG's of comparable projected quality that would cushion the blow somewhat (even though I do not forgive LA's lying and breaking their word). But as there aren't any/many the delay ends up feeling 4 or 5 times as long.

[Judge Hades]

Yep. The CRPG market is downright deader than a can of spam. I was expecting KotOR 2 to fill that niche for the holdiay season, but once again a game publisher lies. I guess there is no such thing as integrity in the gaming industry any more.

[Stargate: 2000]

Is there even a reason?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I second that, a reason why would maybe atleast soften then blow for some people.

[Craftsman]

All they see is $$$ self respect has left the industry.

[Judge Hades]

The reason is obvious. They think that making money is more important than keeping their word and if they piss on the PC Gamers all the better. I should have expected this sort of bullshat. Developers and Publishers will always lie. Just to think that I thought it being an Obsidian game there would be more integrity and more forthrightfulness to its release than what Bioware pulled.

 

Now you might say that don't blame the developer, but as much as I am concerned they all are responsible and all of them I hold accountable.