Better one-on-one fights...duals?

[Retnuh]

I'm sure this has already been mentioned, but this forum has too many topics and I don't feel like digging through them. Anyway, I would like to have better dual/one-on-one fights. For instance, and forgive me if I misspell a name, when I fought Darth Malak/Bandon/Bastila etc....for the most part, it lacked a great deal of substance and emotion. It was easy to beat most everyone and almost every fight seemed the same. Is there any way this could be more in-depth?

 

1. One idea is that maybe they could talk to each other WHILE they fight, instead of so many cut scenes. This would have been handy and interesting when fighting Bastila.

 

2. Another is if when I'm fighting Bandon and his little cronies come after me, I could force wave them with one hand and still be fighting him with the other. Simultaneously! Is this even possible?

 

3. What about different music during fights? Kotor I may have had it, but I don

[nightcleaver]

I agree. Dueling didn't really feel like dueling, it felt like a lame uber-crpg-boss with stylization.

 

Of course, typing WHILE you controlled your character (typing to initiate dialogue) would definitely add difficulty, but maybe not in the way you imagine.

 

But seriously, here's a way to implement that: you have fighting animations play while you talk with Bastila in dialogue mode. I like it.

 

The simultaneous force power/ fighting would be changing the rules and possibly imbalance the game, if it weren't done right - I imagine it would be easy to screw up. I would much prefer a faster paced combat engine, overall, that didn't STOP THE FRIGGIN ACTION while you took your sweet time lifting a hand to cast force lightning/wave/whatever.

 

KotOR had battle music, but most of it was pretty lame, and I can understand why you didn't think it DID change. Soule's music just didn't have the soul to match up with Williams' original score, whether it's a matter of musicians, equipment, or writing. I suspect a little bit of all of that.

 

I agree about the overall unimaginative part. It was better than I would expect, though, considering they actually managed parries, dodges, blocks and locks in the combat animations. I think Obsidian is adding more combat animations (I hope they are, beyond just the feat progression) and a lot of things already look better.

 

I liked the Jedi Academy dueling better (obviously, that has something to do with it being a first person shooter), but it still wasn't as satisfying as watching the movies. At times the moves were a little too much, as well - too flamboyant and overdone for my tastes, but cool nonetheless.

Strategy needs to be added to melee combat, and it should be necessary, and really complex when you're fighting a boss. When someone wins, it should be pretty final - one hit with a saber should just about kill, at least when you're fighting a duel. Outside of the duels is just levelling up, it seems, so it doesn't make a difference.

[thepixiesrock]

one hit with a saber should just about kill

 

I think they could make it more realistic if when you are dueling and i shows how your lightsabers and swords hit eachother and they clash together ant the guy takes damage without being tuouched i think that is a good idea except on the last hit that kils the guy it should show your saber or sword hitting the guy.

[ShinIchiro]

I'd like a soul-selling massive preparation required, near impossible optional boss. I also agree with just about everything you guys have said about one-on-one fights. I say why just one-on-one. Mass melee fights should have special animations or feats that allow you to attack more than one person at the same time (cough cough whirlwind cough).

[EnderAndrew]

The more and more I think about ways to improve KOTOR, I look over to Kingdom Hearts.

 

There are stats at play, but you actively control the swinging of the sword in Kingdom Hearts, which I enjoy immensely. I know it makes for a completely different game, and a variety of people would scream, but I digress.

 

Either you have a purely stat driven RPG, or you have a twitchy-action oriented RPG.

[ShinIchiro]

I don't mind the fact that you don't swing the KOTOR sword. My main problem is that once you beat the final boss, there's not much for you to do. In all FF games and Hearts, you can backtrack and do sidequests and minigames, level up to become stronger and prepare, get super items that are powerful but really hard to get, and last but most importantly: fight a super hard enemy that you have no hope of defeating without being painstakingly well prepared and high in levels. This is what really makes a game have longer playtime. You can beat the game in 30 hours but it takes 90 hours to beat everything in the game.

 

If I remember rightly, Hearts has an optional boss in most of their worlds, right? The boss is always hard.

[EnderAndrew]

Hearts has three optional bosses. The Phantom, Kurt Zisa, and Sephiroth. Sephiroth is damn near impossible to beat.

 

Actually, one could consider the Ice Titan, and all the Colesium stuff optional to boot.

[ShinIchiro]

I think of Sephiroth as the colleseum boss (argh can't spell). And I have fought 2 out of the 3 optional bosses even though I don't have the game (haven't fought clock boss and PS2 is too expensive). I almost beat Sephiroth and so did my friend even when we were underprepared because of luck and skill. We got him down 3 life bars and we had died usually on his 2nd bar. That was a great fight. Classic where you need to pay attention with all your focus and have to be really skilled. THe problem in Knights is that there is no skill in the fights. The only skill is in the preparation and knowing what to use when (health low must heal). A beginner can beat malak if they know what all the attacks do. The only difference between a beginner and expert is that the beginner (unless they're stupid and impacient and thus doomed) takes a lot longer with the game paused deciding what to do.

[nightcleaver]

You could set a strategy, I think. Maybe pre-set combination moves and let it play out, and you can alter it along the way. On easier skill levels, it would involve less "twitching".

 

Blah. You get the idea - I think common ground should be looked for.

[EnderAndrew]

I agree.

 

I find it odd how often people knock on console RPGs as being dumbed-down, when most console RPG final bosses have required more skill and strategy than CRPG bosses I've fought.

[Judge Hades]

Console RPGs have a lot of CHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESE!

[ShinIchiro]

I'd agree that all games need an element of skill to be popular and successful. Maybe that's why computer rpgs have become less popular than the console counterparts. If bioware/lucasarts/obsidian/whoever else makes the game wants the game to keep up its success, they're probably going to have to add in some more complex battle elements probably by KOTOR 4.

[nightcleaver]

I guess that's because computer users have lots of other reasons to be using computers. Console's can't word process or use the internet in the same way computer's can. A lot more casual gamers have computers and buy computer games, thusly.

 

The solution? Real difficulty to choices that are drastically different.

[Retnuh]

I think Kotor II is a hybrid. Kind of an RPG/Adventure. This, in my opinion (which doesn't mean much) allows Kotor II to break the standard RPG rules of one on one confrontation no matter how many enemies. I am going to try and make this as quick and painless as possible.

I believe they could implement a system that would allow the player to fight more then one enemy. Aside from some of the force powers, this was not possible in Kotor I, obviously. I think it could be done (while paused) by selecting one enemy, selecting the feats/powers etc. to inflict, then select another enemy and do the same. Then have an option of either simultaneous fighting, alternating between the two enemies, or just finish off a row of feats/powers and then go to the next enemy.

This should not go without having drawbacks. This would put your defenses on a lower level and make your attack/damage less powerful. Maybe even lower you stamina. But, you would be able to fend off more then you enemy. Every player could have this option and your ability to use it could improve as you level up (maybe even make it a feat).

If a Jedi/Dark Jedi uses force powers like this, it would decrease their powers much more then if they just used it on two different enemies at different times. This would also make the power weaker. And, like the other non-Jedi, they could get better at this as they leveled up, maybe even get to the point where there isn't a lack of defense, a stamina drain, or a substantial force power depletion.

This idea could work for all players who dual wield or have a saber staff.... pistols included. I think it would be nearly impossible to do this with rifles or heavy guns. A Jedi who is proficient with a single light saber could not pull this off in my opinion. Unless they used their light saber on one enemy and force powers on another....so I guess it is possible, but only with a Jedi/Dark Jedi.

If you guys have ideas on how they could do this.... realistically.... then say so. These opinions are kind of scattered but I think I have gotten my point across.

[EnderAndrew]

KOTOR:TSL could do this except for two things.

 

It would mean junking the rule system it's based on, and Akari said it's not going to happen.

[nightcleaver]

Shhh!!

[Child of Flame]

You could fight more than one enemy with a heavy repeating blaster rifle. Gott only knows it worked well enough in the Jedi Knight games <Sprays a throng of enemies with his Blaster Rifle repeating fire>