Jedi vs. Non-Jedi

[Sugrob]

No, you over estimate what a Jedi can do and that is the problem with the recent bunch of Star Wars "fans" ... they treat Jedi as literal gods.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

My sentiments, exactly...

 

Although I do believe that the Force is portraid as 'limitless' in SW universe, only a very dedicated Jedi/Sith Master (like Yoda/Palpatine of the original trilogy) would be able to make it a truly powerful 'asset' in combat. In most to all other instances the Force would only be helpful, and grant a different tactical approach to a situation. But it definately wouldn't make the user all-powerful. The Force doesn't replace the need for skill and intelligence.

 

Anyway, all these arguments we all bring here are mere speculation based on some scripted scenes from movies, and they'll in no way make those points absolutely valid once and for all.

 

As for KotOR series, Revan of KotOR 1 and the PC in KotOR 2 are former Force-users with a good combat experience, so that'd be of no surprise that even without reuniting with the Force they'd be able to defeat the Force-users. Not to mention Malak, who wasn't even a Sith Lord, or even had much focus using the Force, which makes him as 'weak' as any other poor Sith Schmoe he sent your way.

 

 

By the way, where did you see Mace use the Force in defeating Jango? All it took was Mace's skill with a Lightsaber (which doesn't involve the Force) and Jango's stupidity (in that particular movie-scripted case).

 

 

[Edit]: I forgot to say that I'm in no way trying to make KotOR series a non-Jedi or even a non-Jedi-focussed game. All I'd like is an option to be able to play it non-Jedi as well as a Jedi, as I'd be playing both. That would really add up to the game's replay value for me.

Edited September 9, 2004 by Sugrob

[Zero_Kelvin]

Maybe Jango Fett against Mace Windu is not the best example but he did give Obi Wan a fight back in Kamino.

A good example also could be Bobba Fett in Jedi Academy, in the level where you have to destroy the weapons cache. He is really annoying and is you get close to him to hit him with the lightsaber he uses a flamethrower that can kill you in seconds, and also he uses his jetpack to keep his distance with you. If they are going to create a bounty hunter character in KotOr 2 they should give him/her several free feats, and he skill to use several weapons like the ones the droids could use, not only shields, grenades and mines, and that would be could to play.

 

Zero

[GhostofAnakin]

No, you over estimate what a Jedi can do and that is the problem with the recent bunch of Star Wars "fans" ... they treat Jedi as literal gods.

 

There are limits to what a Jedi can do, yes they have the Force as a powerful ally but even the Force have limits, starting with the Jedi own limitation in understanding the Force.

 

Even a master have limits and lets not forget the Jedi that Jango shoot was none other that a Jedi Master and member of the Jedi Council, Jango tactic against Mace was stupid since Mace had a clear advantage in that kind of battle, personaly I would fly around it fire rockets at him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I never once said that Jedi are gods. But even an average Jedi would give the best non-Jedi a run for his/her money, and that's my point.

 

Can you honestly say that a non-Jedi could have defeated the Emperor or Darth Maul in combat? If you say yes, then I think you have a destorted view of the Star Wars universe.

[Judge Hades]

Of course a non-Jedi could. Just not a straight up fight. Its called being sneaky and using tactics. If you are going against someone with great amount of melee skill, you sniper them. I(f they have a weapon that can deflect bolts of energy, you use ballistics. If you go against a foe that cn dodge rockets you lay a trap with mines and coax them intot he right spot.

 

When you fight force users you need to fight dirty and go for the cheap shots. :ph34r:

[KOTORFanactic]

It is true that both Jango and Boba Fett can give jedi a run for there money, but neither of them hav evr beaten a jedi, they either run, or r simply killed, whether by the jedi or not.

(remember boba was killed by solo when solo hit bobas jetpack with that metal rod and it short circuited, and then boba was eaten by the sarlaac. All in Return of the Jedi.)

[Judge Hades]

In the Expanded Universe Bobba Fett survived the Surlacc Pit and escaped, thoughit did cost him his leg.

[GhostofAnakin]

Of course a non-Jedi could.  Just not a straight up fight.  Its called being sneaky and using tactics.  If you are going against someone with great amount of melee skill, you sniper them.  I(f they have a weapon that can deflect bolts of energy, you use ballistics.  If you go against a foe that cn dodge rockets you lay a trap with mines and coax them intot he right spot.

 

When you fight force users you need to fight dirty and go for the cheap shots.  :ph34r:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Of course any thing is technically possible, but I suppose I should have said REALISTICALLY, what are the chances of it happening.

 

I think your view is distorted because you adhere to the d20 system more than you do to the films and novels (which, btw, the movies are CANON and the d20 isn't), so therefore you have an overvalued view of non-Jedi classes since the d20 system seems to want to balance things out for "fairness" issues.

[KOTORFanactic]

"Of course a non-Jedi could. Just not a straight up fight. Its called being sneaky and using tactics. If you are going against someone with great amount of melee skill, you sniper them. I(f they have a weapon that can deflect bolts of energy, you use ballistics. If you go against a foe that cn dodge rockets you lay a trap with mines and coax them intot he right spot."

 

"When you fight force users you need to fight dirty and go for the cheap shots."

 

I don't think a jedi would fall for a trap in the jungle, or anywhere else for that matter. They would also sense the rocket flying at them, with the force or the sound of the shot, or the sound of the rocket flying.

A jedi (padawan level minimum) would, and should be able to sense the traps with the force, whether it is using force sight, or simple intuition. Remember, in the Universe not evrything is fair, not even in the gaming universe or star wars universe. Force users hav a distinct advantage over non force users, always remember that.

[Drakron]

Yes, Maul was nothing but a tool and anyone could beat him as long it was in the script.

 

After all Maul abilities were having scary face painting and a double lightsaber, not much to go with.

 

Palpatine is a diferent subject, he was designed as the ultimate powerful enemy and nobody could win against him directly.

 

In relation to stats and RPG mechanics we enter a whole new area, Palpatine is one of the incredible rare lv 20 characters so only a lv20 character could win against him or a party of the slight less rare lv16 characters that would have a run for their money but they could, depending on tactics and gears.

 

Maul would be easier to bring down that Palpatine, he have far fewer levels that Palpatine (lv12) and even if he is a +12 character that are very uncommon there are a lot of people in the galaxy that is higher level he is.

 

I do not say all classes are balanced in RPG and in fact force users tend to have some advantages compred to others of the same level but they also have weakness and unless we have a piss poor force system such as in SW:KotOR that really pushes things towards force users ... but then again we have the even more idiotic implant slot system and the insane equipment.

[Judge Hades]

You keep saying that KotORFanatic, and someday it might be true. If I have a 5th level non-Jedi/Sith versus a Jedi/Sith class of your choice, I bet I can beat you easy.

[KOTORFanactic]

Er; right, isnt that just a little off topic hades (u hate me dont u).

 

Still, I stand by my opinions about jedi and non-jedi.

[Judge Hades]

I don't hate you or anyone. I just like making smartarse remarks. :D

 

I stand by mine as well.