A detailed description of the mess that is the current upgrade system

[thelee]

8 hours ago, Baraz said:

I believe it. 
Just reporting that in my test, removing my Fine armor did not reduce my spell damage in the above set-up. Possible explanation: does the game just check the highest tier among the equipped gear?  Or maybe there are nuances we do not know about. 

here's the video link: 

the youtuber in question had an update and apparently by their findings it's not average, it's literally just the highest tier out of your loadouts and armor. so this would match with your theory. so higher armor only matters insofar as it's better than other stuff you got.

so for casters, you can get away with just upgrading armor.

[Baraz]

58 minutes ago, thelee said:

[...] the youtuber in question had an update and apparently by their findings it's not average, it's literally just the highest tier out of your loadouts and armor. so this would match with your theory. so higher armor only matters insofar as it's better than other stuff you got.

so for casters, you can get away with just upgrading armor.

n1ck_knack wrote (in the update you mention) : "the game calculates your character's tier is by simply picking the highest tier out of your first loadout, second loadout, and armor. Whatever item has the highest tier is what the game chooses when comparing you against the enemies."

Example: you can have in hand a Common grimoire, but have a Fine weapon in your second loadout (not in hand), and you are therefore Fine tier.

For players reading here : That said, upgrading your grimoire gives casting bonuses (reduced cost & cooldown). Upgrading weapons still boost their damage/stun. BUT you will not be hit by the tier buff/debuff if at least one item equipped is high enough tier (even if not in hand).

[Silvaren]

1 hour ago, Baraz said:

n1ck_knack wrote (in the update you mention) : "the game calculates your character's tier is by simply picking the highest tier out of your first loadout, second loadout, and armor. Whatever item has the highest tier is what the game chooses when comparing you against the enemies."

Example: you can have in hand a Common grimoire, but have a Fine weapon in your second loadout (not in hand), and you are therefore Fine tier.

For players reading here : That said, upgrading your grimoire gives casting bonuses (reduced cost & cooldown). Upgrading weapons still boost their damage/stun. BUT you will not be hit by the tier buff/debuff if at least one item equipped is high enough tier (even if not in hand).

It seems like it's better to focus on upgrading single item (preferably weapon in most cases) just to avoid penalty while fighting enemies at higher tiers and upgrade the rest just to keep up with stats.

[thelee]

16 minutes ago, Silvaren said:

It seems like it's better to focus on upgrading single item (preferably weapon in most cases) just to avoid penalty while fighting enemies at higher tiers and upgrade the rest just to keep up with stats.

though with some exploration, you can ugprade several items no problem. it's upgrading across tiers that's really expensive.

for this reason i think it's kind of a mistake that hte game was apparently changed to let you upgrade common items across tiers. it's basically a trap. uses way too many resources and basically means you never have to sell items or engage with vendors at all. IMO it'd be better if you had to find uniques or scrounge up cash for a tier up, and upgrading is a system in parallel with that, not in conflict.

Edited Wednesday at 08:10 PM by thelee

[Silvaren]

I verified that without metagaming it's still possible to upgrade unique weapon to excellent and unique armor to fine even before dealing with rebels.

I didn't take scavenger perk until late phase of Dawnshore. There is enough adra and unique items in Dawnshore to make excellent uniqe weapon.

I was confused before by the trigger which allows to craft awakened adra. It looks like you don't need to salvage excellent unique nor find awakened adra in the Emerald Stairs to do this. There is no option to craft it until you upgrade any unique item to level Fine 3/3. Reaching the treshold to higher tier with unique upgrade unlocks option to craft higher tier adra.

Edited Thursday at 05:54 AM by Silvaren

[saeran]

Thank you everyone for putting in the work to "decipher" this system! I don't think I'd have ever figured out myself. I am an older cRPG player and for me the idea that the power of my mage's spell depends on the quality of any of her equipment is just weird. They could have made it at least dependent on mage items, like grimoires, that would make a bit more sense.

[thelee]

10 hours ago, Silvaren said:

I verified that without metagaming it's still possible to upgrade unique weapon to excellent and unique armor to fine even before dealing with rebels.

I didn't take scavenger perk until late phase of Dawnshore. There is enough adra and unique items in Dawnshore to make excellent uniqe weapon.

I was confused before by the trigger which allows to craft awakened adra. It looks like you don't need to salvage excellent unique nor find awakened adra in the Emerald Stairs to do this. There is no option to craft it until you upgrade any unique item to level Fine 3/3. Reaching the treshold to higher tier with unique upgrade unlocks option to craft higher tier adra.

You can craft higher tier Adra?????

[omgFIREBALLS]

36 minutes ago, thelee said:

You can craft higher tier Adra?????

Yes, as soon as you have an item in need of it, you learn the recipe to upgrade Adra. If you have a Fine +3 item, you learn how to combine 3 Adra into 1 Awakened Adra. And then at Exceptional +3 you learn how to make Corrupted Adra and then finally Adra Bán.

Note that this also seems to be exempt from any Scavenger mechanics. The upgrade always costs 3, with or without Scavenger.

[Silvaren]

13 hours ago, thelee said:

You can craft higher tier Adra?????

Yes. I wasn't sure how to unlock higher tier Adra and then when I hit breaking point between fine/excellent I was able to make awakened adra. 

[Wormerine]

18 hours ago, thelee said:

You can craft higher tier Adra?????

Aye, you can combine any lower tier upgrade materials into higher tier upgrade materials.

Personally, while I am not fan of the upgrade system, (I find it very contrived and therefore not rewarding), I didn't found it troublesome. I managed to upgrade most of my equipped gear to fine, even before I discovered you can scrap spare items for upgrade materials. I definitely can't upgrade everything I would want to, but I can upgrade all I need and then some - even more so, now when I am scrapping all the spare stuff I find rather than selling it.

Some shops also have small amount of crafting materials that can be purchased for little coin (though not much in stock in one go). I usually pick those up whenever I shop.

[thelee]

4 hours ago, Wormerine said:

Aye, you can combine any lower tier upgrade materials into higher tier upgrade materials.

Sweet jeebus, I must have just completely missed the option. I only ever saw the breakdown option, so I thought lower level mats were only if for some reason I wanted to upgrade extremely under-tiered uniques or something.

[Baraz]

10 hours ago, thelee said:

Sweet jeebus, I must have just completely missed the option. I only ever saw the breakdown option, so I thought lower level mats were only if for some reason I wanted to upgrade extremely under-tiered uniques or something.

It is under the Crafting tab on the camp's Workbench. 

Edited 9 hours ago by Baraz
More specifically on the Workbench.