What's the worst multiclass ?

[thelee]

8 hours ago, Boeroer said:

I value it (way) higher than Fighter/Druid. Tactician's Brilliance aside, what would that combo do better?

i actually find this a funny point--very different views here, because i generally view Fighter/x as solid (if not necessarily S-tier) shell for any multiclass, fighter/druid included. better support across the board for any kind of druid kit in this case thanks to disciplined barrage+upgrades, armored grace, the stances, rapid recovery, and depending on the build a slew of other passives and even some mobility options.

Quote

If the paladin side had no tools to help the Druid's offense (while "only" adding a lot of sturdyness) it would maybe be a lame combo. But the fact that you can easily (and early) add +20% additive damage via Sworn Enemy (and even get that Zeal back) and +15% lash damage means you don't lose much offensive spell impact while gaining massive improvements on the survivability side.

you can add damage, but you can only do it a few times on a few targets, until you upgrade it, and you're basically spending most of your class resources for that +20% additive damage, or else diluting it with very little uptime. speaking of fighter, i would much rather pick up tactical barrage, requires very little class resources spent (one discipline gives you boosts against every target), and gets you way more useful overall bonuses for offense or defense, in addition to protecting you against enemy afflictions.

and i really just disagree on the utility of that lash. so much of what the druid does does not benefit from that lash. the lash story is so much better with other offensive casters.

Quote

Also the point about summons is not correct imo. If you wanted to focus on supporting your summons you can use Lay on Hands, Shared Flames, Exalted Endurance (or Ex. Focus). How's that not supporting your summons?

you can do those things, i do not say that most of those are great things. ancient has wild growth which can be good because it lasts literally forever (and even then i would only use it selectively) and ancient has the sporelings that have the duration that makes extended survival useful. chanter has chants that recur and benefit party and summons at the same time (and some of those chants are great even on shabby summons, like the silver knight one). expending a lay on hands on most summons doesn't strike me as a good use of it, for example. and more to the point chaospread raised, what makes a multiclass to you "worst?" for me, is it better than other permutations to do the same thing? and also for me the big killer is that for all these things the druid doesn't need to be the paladin. that's the big killer for most paladin multiclassing to me, the paladin itself doesn't need to be on the multiclass itself, and is it really better to be on the multiclass in question? for quite a few classes, no. for druid sure you get a bit higher defenses and sure you can pick up something like righteous soul, but most of the time it seems like you would be better served even with a different multiclass and having a paladin somewhere else in the party (even SC). even the sacred immolation story -  having tried this i honestly found it very unimpressive and more like a meme build. you burn down all your zeal to give some oomph to nature's terror and sacred flame, which is... fine i guess, but it also comes in very late, and i'm not sure if it's worth all those resources compared to alternatives (hence me calling it more of a meme build).

Quote

If you'd made all those points against Rogue/Druid or Fighter/Druid I would understand them better. 

apart from fighter/druid points i made, rogue/druid is good! i would happily roll a trickster/shifter for shapeshifting mayhem, even-non-trickster/X for firebrand stuff, and even an assassin/X for casting mayhem over any paladin/druid kit.

Edited February 6 by thelee

[Boeroer]

I think I don't value the things a fighter brings to a caster that much because a lot of it is already covered by the party's Priest and they are also rel. short-lived. Armored Grace doesn't do much while shifted. The stances are somewhat comparable to the Paladin's auras but only good for the Fighter himself. Who takes Rapid Recovery? 

Tactical Barrage is nice though.

Hm... nobody wants to touch my Nature's Terror + Sacred Immolation it seems. You don't get that from a Rogue or Fighter, just saying...

Maybe I'll make a gif when I'm back home on the weekend. 

 

Edited February 6 by Boeroer

[thelee]

47 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

The stances are somewhat comparable to the Paladin's auras but only good for the Fighter himself

that's actually kind of my point.

i'm not saying paladin is bad, or even that druid + paladin in a party is bad, but simply that you don't need to be a druid/paladin multiclass, and in fact may be redundant or less powerful than some other druid or druid multiclass setup that happens to have a paladin or paladin multiclass elsewhere in the party.

that's kind of the killer for several paladin multiclass options to me - most of its kit benefits other party members, sometimes exclusively so for exhortations. for example, reinforcing exhortation on a martially-oriented druid (or martially-oriented anything) would be very nice to have, but ironically you cannot do this as a multiclass, you have to have the paladin and druid separate.

Quote

Hm... nobody wants to touch my Nature's Terror + Sacred Immolation it seems.

i said it was fine, but kind of like a meme build situation.

Edited February 6 by thelee

[Boeroer]

Meme build will slay in an animated gif soon!

[Chaospread]

21 hours ago, Boeroer said:

I disagree - partly. It's indeed bad in PoE (where it only works against <=10% endurance left) and it doesn't do much in synergy with anything and just overkills.

I played a death godlike barb in PoE1 SOLO and Bloody Slaughter was indeed useful, especially with bosses, it made the difference between death and life a few times.

[Boeroer]

@thelee behold Terrorimmolationzilla (huge gifs, will prob. load forever...):

against some dummies (just to show the dmg numbers)

against some tigers (just to show the healing)

This is a Shifter/Kind Wayfarer with 18 CON + RES and only 12 MIG.
I only used Nature's Terror + Sacred Immolation mostly as spells during this test. White Flames + Inspiring Triumph is a great combo in general imo (if you are offensively capable). The added lashes provide solid melee damage, Ring of Focused Flames raises FoD and Sacred Immolation ACC, Helm of the White Void raises Nature's Terror. Scion of Flame and Heart of the Storm add some PEN, too.
Could also so Bleak Walker and go for +2 PEN for FoD with Spirit of Decay, but I think the White Flames are so much more useful. Also thought about Steel Garrote, but that only profits me and I like it that White Flames could also heal my allies while I'm shifted. 

Edit: I just realized that I forgot to use Cat Flurry while recording, rofl...

 

Edited Sunday at 06:44 PM by Boeroer

[Constentin Lévine]

About robust inspiration from Nature's Balm (pl3), does that give more health per tick than robust from Lay of Hands (pl1) ?

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, Constentin Lévine said:

About robust inspiration from Nature's Balm (pl3), does that give more health per tick than robust from Lay of Hands (pl1) ?

No, just overall because it lasts a lot longer. 

Edited Sunday at 09:30 PM by Boeroer

[ekt0]

Hey guys, I just come by to say hi.
 

It feels great to see this forum still active.