[Solved] How does Segmented Scutum work with Glancing Strikes when it comes to incoming hits from melee weapons?

[IanTheWizard]

Segmented Scutum:
10% of incoming Hits converted to Grazes from weapons

Glancing Strikes:
10% of incoming Hits converted to Grazes from Melee weapons

 

As we can see above, the first one covers all weapons, including ranged weapons, apparently, and the second one covers only melee weapons.

While both equipment are equipped, surely the percentage regarding ranged weapons is still 10%. But what about the percentage regarding melee weapons? I doubt it's 10% + 10% = 20%. So what would the percentage regarding melee weapons become? It can't be still 10%, can it?

Edited September 11 by IanTheWizard

[Elric Galad]

29 minutes ago, IanTheWizard said:

Segmented Scutum:
10% of incoming Hits converted to Grazes from weapons

Glancing Strikes:
10% of incoming Hits converted to Grazes from Melee weapons

 

As we can see above, the first one covers all weapons, including ranged weapons, apparently, and the second one covers only melee weapons.

While both equipment are equipped, surely the percentage regarding ranged weapons is still 10%. But what about the percentage regarding melee weapons? I doubt it's 10% + 10% = 20%. So what would the percentage regarding melee weapons become? It can't be still 10%, can it?

Hit category converters (Hit to Graze, Hit to Crit, etc...) works multiplicatively, or more exactly in succession.

10% chance of conversion, then 10% chance of conversion if it wasn't converted by first effect. 10% + (10% x (100%-10%)) = 19%.

Edited September 11 by Elric Galad

[Chaospread]

There are 2 check of 10% in case of melee weapon. The actual percentange is about 19% (1-0.9*0.9).

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, Chaospread said:

(1-0.9*0.9).

That's the way I like to explain it, too.

All conversions "stack" this way.

But in almost all cases you can only convert once per roll. So usually you cannot tie "hit to graze" and then "graze to miss" together for a single attack roll.
I remember there is one such case where this can happen, but unfortunately I forgot what it was. Damn swiss cheese brain...

[Chaospread]

20 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

That's the way I like to explain it, too.

And sure enough I learned it that way from you

[Elric Galad]

34 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

That's the way I like to explain it, too.

All conversions "stack" this way.

But in almost all cases you can only convert once per roll. So usually you cannot tie "hit to graze" and then "graze to miss" together for a single attack roll.
I remember there is one such case where this can happen, but unfortunately I forgot what it was. Damn swiss cheese brain...

Maybe because there can be 2 conversion : first is the "offensive" conversion where the upgrade happens (Miss to Graze XOR Graze to Hit XOR Hit to Crit)

Then is the defensive conversion (Crit to Hit XOR Hit to Graze XOR Crit to Hit)

[thelee]

5 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Maybe because there can be 2 conversion : first is the "offensive" conversion where the upgrade happens (Miss to Graze XOR Graze to Hit XOR Hit to Crit)

yeah i've played hearth orlans a lot and it's not uncommon to see this against dragons - the hearth orlan racial upgrades hit to crit and then dragon scales downgrades it back down. IIRC it's a bit confusing in the combat log, i see minor threat appear but the attack is just a hit, and it's only if you mouseover that it shows the dragon scale effect.

Edited September 11 by thelee

[NotDumbEnough]

Yeah it has to do with conversions on both the attacker's and defender's ends.

[Boeroer]

No, I meant two conversions on the same roll in one direction. I know there was some example (years ago) and it was very specific - but I cannot remember what it was. 

[thelee]

actually, that screenshot from NotDumbEnough seems to be proof for what you're talking about

 

Aware: 50% graze to hit (buff for attacker)

Paralyze: 25% hit to crit (buff for attacker implemented as a debuff for defender)

 

The combat log shows a graze being upgraded all the way to a crit. I didn't think this was even possible, I though only one upgrade or one downgrade (or both) at a time was possible. but i guess the critical thing is that both mechanics are on different sides of the attack.

Edited September 12 by thelee

[Boeroer]

Ach sorry. I totally misunderstood. Yeah indeed, that might have been it!