Best POTD Arquebus user?

[juheee]

Hello, I have seen a huge number of topics but doesn't seem to be a consensus on what the best arquebus user would be outside of Gunhawk.

I assume the old reload cheese is fixed? where you could negate a huge part of the reload just by an attack command at the right time

 

What I assume some contenders for best build would be:

Devoted for accuracy + penetration + conqueror stance so you can turn modal off for speed

Black Jacket to blast through 4 shots or 5 with red hand

Troubadour swift handed chant for speed,

Ranger for projectile bounce + acc bonuses

Monk for speed, acc stacking unless you get hit

I have seen Boeroer's troubadour streetfighter combo with wisp self damage, but I'm looking for a more RPish marksman than that, although I see how smart that combo is

 

I would love to hear your takes on what the best dps arquebus user would be.

[Chaospread]

Hi, I don't know if it is the best build/combo for an arquebus, but I'm liking Red Hand with Guilty Conscience full stacked on a Wildrhymer (Ranger\Chanter) with all bonuses you have listed

Edited August 23 by Chaospread

[juheee]

15 minutes ago, Chaospread said:

Hi, I don't know if it is the best build/combo for an arquebus, but I'm liking Red Hand with Guilty Conscience full stacked on a Wildrhymer (Ranger\Chanter) with all bonuses you have listed

yeah, I really like that combo idea, how much did you invest into INT? I always feel like as a chanter you are supposed to be a summoner and kind of a support guy

[Elric Galad]

Why rogue (maybe not streefighter) isn't on the list ?

For weapon DPS, there are not that much that can be the sheer DPS increase from Sneak Attack, Deathblows and Deep Wound.

Chanter is great for Swift Handed but you can have one in the party, not the gunner themselves.

Probably some Ranger/Rogue with Chanter support is more optimal.

[Boeroer]

Dps-wise and speaking about "self-contained builds" I guess there's not much that comes close to the described Streetfighter/Troubadour with wisps, but it doesn't have great accuracy.

So I'd say Ranger/Troubadour with Marked for the Hunt, Marksman, Driving Flight, Gunner and so on and Sure-Handed Ila + Aefyllath Ues Mith Fyr, using the Red Hand. Great reloading speed, great accuracy, good versatility (due to invocations, esp. summons), good dmg per shot (burning lash at all times). 

But it's true that you only need a chanter in the party for that. If there is one then including the rogue class is great. For example:

If you don't enchant the Red Hand with Double Tap but the Knockdown effect instead, a Rogue/Ranger can be very good - if Arterial Strike is used a lot. I mean it's great anyway bc. of all the dmg bonuses paired with high ACC. But I mean it's even better imo if you can knock enemies away from allies with Arterial Strike and they will suffer greatly if they want to re-engage (they usually want that). With Driving Flights it's two enemies with one shot who will hobble around, bleeding out. It's very useful and does a lot of damage per shot, too. It's not as fast with reloading but good enough imo. You lose the double tap against vessels but I think it's worth it in this case.

If you have a chanter in the party you can still use the wisp trick and pick a streetfighter for the rogue/ranger.

For a solo arquebus user I think not much comes close to @Kaylon's Assassin/Tactician. It's posted here as a build somewhere with the mechanics explained. 

Mechanically I'm not a big fan of the Devoted with an arquebus because he's at a disadvantage when he meets pierce resistant or immune enemies - or ones with an Arcane Veil (which are pretty frequent, esp. among the vessel and spirit categories). 

Black Jacket is okay. I personally don't see a huge advantage when using 0-recovery weapon-set switching though because of the Red Hand arquebus. You buy up to 3 quick extra shots with increased micromanagement - I mean on paper it's worth it, but I find that one stops to care after a few encounters because the switching gets annoying. Especially when the fights last longer and longer it's not worth my time.

Conquerer Stance is very nice though. And with the Community Patch Weapon Mastery is nice, too.

Thematically a Sharpshooter/Devoted would make a lot of sense - and as long as you don't meet too many pierce immune foes (or just make your character sturdy enough to be able to punch those with Monastic Unarmed Training) it would also perform well. +3 PEN at closer range is pretty good - +6 when using Penetrating Strike: a lot of overpenetration I guess? 

 

Edited August 23 by Boeroer

[juheee]

7 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

Why rogue (maybe not streefighter) isn't on the list ?

For weapon DPS, there are not that much that can be the sheer DPS increase from Sneak Attack, Deathblows and Deep Wound.

Chanter is great for Swift Handed but you can have one in the party, not the gunner themselves.

Probably some Ranger/Rogue with Chanter support is more optimal.

thanks for the idea, it's not on the list because I'm not that familiar with the game, now that I read about it, sounds very nice,

do you think a ranger/rogue mc is one of the best setups? if yes, what subclasses would you pick, sharpshooter/ghost heart, assassin/base rogue?

also, what do you think about something like a bleak walker/ rogue vs a ranger/ rogue?

[Elric Galad]

6 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

or ones with an Arcane Veil (which are pretty frequent, esp. among the vessel and spirit categories). 

Ahem, Arquebus is veil-piecing. It's more a Devoted issue with other weapons.

[juheee]

18 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Dps-wise I guess there's not much that comes close to the described Streetfighter/Troubadour with wisps, but it doesn't have great accuracy.

So I'd say Ranger/Troubadour with Marked for the Hunt, Marksman, Driving Flight, Gunner and so on and Sure-Handed Ila + Aefyllath Ues Mith Fyr, using the Red Hand. Great reloading speed, great accuracy, good versatility (due to invocations, esp. summons), good dmg per shot (burning lash at all times). 

If you don't enchant the Red Hand with Double Tap but the Knockdown effect instead, a Rogue/Ranger can be very good as well - if Arterial Strike is used a lot. You can knock enemies away from allies with Arterial Strike and they will suffer greatly if they want to re-engage (they usually want that). With Driving Flights it's two enemies with one shot who will hobble around, bleeding out. It's very useful and does a lot of damage per shot, too. It's not as fast with reloading but good enough imo. 

For a solo arquebus user I think not much comes close to @Kaylon's Assassin/Tactician. It's posted here as a build somewhere with the mechanics explained. 

I'm not a big fan of the Devoted with an arquebus because he's at a disadvantage when he meets pierce resistant or immune enemies - or ones with an Arcane Veil (which are pretty frequent, esp. among the vessel and spirit categories). 

Black Jacket is okay. I personally don't see a huge advantage when using 0-recovery weapon-set switching though because of the Red Hand arquebus. You buy up to 3 quick extra shots with increased micromanagement - I mean on paper it's worth it, but I find that one stops to care after a few encounters because the switching gets annoying. Especially when the fights last longer and longer it's not worth my time.

Conquerer Stance is very nice though. And with the Community Patch Weapon Mastery is nice, too.

Thematically a Sharpshooter/Devoted would make a lot of sense - and as long as you don't meet too many pierce immune foes (or just make your character sturdy enough to be able to punch those with Monastic Unarmed Training) it would also perform well. +3 PEN at closer range is pretty good - +6 when using Penetrating Strike: a lot of overpenetration I guess?  

 

Thanks a lot for the detailed response, you are giving me a lot here,

I love what Kaylon's build does, and really want to take Assassin as a base now to start every fight with a huge arquebus pick off.

I assume if I bring Tekehu as chanter so he gets me sure-handed ila going all the time that gives me the same speed as if I would do it.

So with these 2 in mind, what would you multiclass the Assassin side with? Ranger sharpshooter/ghost-heart? Bleak walker for big hits? or Keep the Tactician like in Kaylon's build (I'm kind of worried I would mess up tactician's positioning requirements and be useless with quick enemies swarming my PC)?

[thelee]

4 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Black Jacket is okay. I personally don't see a huge advantage when using 0-recovery weapon-set switching though because of the Red Hand arquebus. You buy up to 3 quick extra shots with increased micromanagement - I mean on paper it's worth it, but I find that one stops to care after a few encounters because the switching gets annoying. Especially when the fights last longer and longer it's not worth my time.

I wonder if one could AI script this? Something like

1. Always True -> Attack (cooldown of like 999 seconds)

2. Always True -> Switch to Weapon Set 2 (cooldown of like 999 seconds)

3. Always True -> Attack (etc)

4. Always True -> Switch to Weapon Set 3 (etc)

5. Always True -> Attack (etc)

6. Always True -> Switch to Weapon Set 4 (etc)

with the idea that the AI script moves down the list with each check.

Anyway, I agree that this might be of limited value past early/mid game. I found this handy with Kana in PoE1 (who started with extra weapon slot) because enemy health tended to be lower and encounters shorter (albeit more frequent) and you could easily take out or severely injure one enemy before settling into one weapon for the rest of the fight, and snowball it from there. In Deadfire encounters are long and enemy health way higher, it's quite the ability point/equipment tax for only a small boost that's only relevant early on.

 

4 hours ago, juheee said:

Ranger sharpshooter/ghost-heart?

if your'e going with the stealth/ambush angle, you might want ghost-heart just to avoid having to worry about stealthing or keeping your animal companion out of combat.

Edited August 23 by thelee

[juheee]

15 minutes ago, thelee said:

if your'e going with the stealth/ambush angle, you might want ghost-heart just to avoid having to worry about stealthing or keeping your animal companion out of combat.

that makes a lot of sense, thanks, also if I may ask, lets say we are doing a ghostheart/assassin arquebus build, is this a good stat spread?

Might 20 with Islander Aumua, Con 10 Dex 16 Per 19 with culture Int 10 Resolve 3

And another question, I assume based on stats that Wolf is the best animal companion for damage? afaik Ghost pets cant hold engagement

[Boeroer]

5 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Ahem, Arquebus is veil-piecing. It's more a Devoted issue with other weapons.

Uh... for some reason I got it backwards in my trail of thought.

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, thelee said:

I wonder if one could AI script this? Something like

1. Always True -> Attack (cooldown of like 999 seconds)

2. Always True -> Switch to Weapon Set 2 (cooldown of like 999 seconds)

3. Always True -> Attack (etc)

4. Always True -> Switch to Weapon Set 3 (etc)

5. Always True -> Attack (etc)

6. Always True -> Switch to Weapon Set 4 (etc)

Yes, scripting the switching at the start of battle (or with another initial trigger for that behavior) would be doable. 

[Boeroer]

5 hours ago, juheee said:

What would you multiclass the Assassin side with? Ranger sharpshooter/ghost-heart? Bleak walker for big hits? or Keep the Tactician like in Kaylon's build (I'm kind of worried I would mess up tactician's positioning requirements and be useless with quick enemies swarming my PC)?

I played an Assassin/Bleak Walker pretty soon after the game came out. The value of big arquebus crits with Assassinate+Flames of Devotion is fairly limited after the early game. Enemies' health pools just become too big. Only if you can become invisible lots of times during an encounter an arquebus with Assassinate makes sense.

So I combined Assassin with Priest of Skaen for more invisibility uses per encounter (that was before Arkemyr's Brilliant Departure). 

If I wanted to maximize invisibility uses for an Assassin I would pair it with a Bloodmage I guess who can cast Brilliant Departure lots of times and also has the benefit of an Essential Phantom which also can make good use of an arquebus setup. 

[NotDumbEnough]

IIRC the problem with having things like 999 second cooldowns in AI script is that it doesn't reset or stop counting when you finish a battle. You're likely to fight more than one battle every 999 seconds, but if you set it too low your guy starts doing stupid things mid-battle.

 

IMO the best Arquebus user is generally a Scout with Chanter backup for Swift-Handed. Sneak Attack and Deathblows help offset the damage reduction from Driving Flight, with Maia using Red Hand I've seen extremely good damage from even the bounced shot, unless I build my watcher as a glass cannon she usually ends up with the highest damage output in my party.

[juheee]

38 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

I played an Assassin/Bleak Walker pretty soon after the game came out. The value of big arquebus crits with Assassinate+Flames of Devotion is fairly limited after the early game. Enemies' health pools just become too big. Only if you can become invisible lots of times during an encounter an arquebus with Assassinate makes sense.

So I combined Assassin with Priest of Skaen for more invisibility uses per encounter (that was before Arkemyr's Brilliant Departure). 

If I wanted to maximize invisibility uses for an Assassin I would pair it with a Bloodmage I guess who can cast Brilliant Departure lots of times and also has the benefit of an Essential Phantom which also can make good use of an arquebus setup. 

I see, I don't like priests and hate Skaen in lore, but I love wizards.

What would a stat distribution look like on an Assassin/Bloodmage? max perception and int? decent dex I guess, do you want to get HP with Con?

[juheee]

12 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

IIRC the problem with having things like 999 second cooldowns in AI script is that it doesn't reset or stop counting when you finish a battle. You're likely to fight more than one battle every 999 seconds, but if you set it too low your guy starts doing stupid things mid-battle.

 

IMO the best Arquebus user is generally a Scout with Chanter backup for Swift-Handed. Sneak Attack and Deathblows help offset the damage reduction from Driving Flight, with Maia using Red Hand I've seen extremely good damage from even the bounced shot, unless I build my watcher as a glass cannon she usually ends up with the highest damage output in my party.

what would your scout look like if I may ask? assassin/base rogue, sharpshooter/ghost heart ranger? and how much Int would you give to this build?

[thelee]

On 8/23/2024 at 11:11 AM, NotDumbEnough said:

IIRC the problem with having things like 999 second cooldowns in AI script is that it doesn't reset or stop counting when you finish a battle.

wow really? i do have some longish cooldowns (i think 120s i the longest i do), but i guess i've never really paid too much attention to how it triggers in successive fights in dense areas.

[Chaospread]

On 8/23/2024 at 12:32 PM, juheee said:

yeah, I really like that combo idea, how much did you invest into INT? I always feel like as a chanter you are supposed to be a summoner and kind of a support guy

Hi, mine is a Ghost Heart / Beckoner, I'm playing SOLO PotD and so I maxed INT, PER and DEX, MIG and CON about 8/9 and RES 5/6.

Max INT just for summon duration, DEX because I want a quick character and it balances out poor MIG for DPS, my tactics is summon creatures/pet, repair behind them and shot as quick as I Can, with all RANGER bonus (see Boeroer post) and Sure-Handed Ila.

Best Arquebus I have found to work is just The Red Hand
It seems to work, I have completed all content except The Forgotten Sanctum and mega bosses

[Elric Galad]

2 hours ago, Chaospread said:

Hi, mine is a Ghost Heart / Beckoner, I'm playing SOLO PotD and so I maxed INT, PER and DEX, MIG and CON about 8/9 and RES 5/6.

Why these subclasses granted that both are specially about summoning and you can't have GH pet along chanter summons. Are you hating pet that much ?

[Boeroer]

I don't understand that choice either - also because with any Ranger/Chanter combo you can revive the animal companion potentially unlimited times (they don't get injured on knockout).

[NotDumbEnough]

I've never thought about it like this before, but you get increasing returns with each Wildrhymer in your party. Since you don't care too much about PL you can use Spell Shaping to hit all of your dead pets simultaneously with ...And Face Your Foes. Rezzing up to five dead pets with a single cast is an excellent deal, and since they don't get injuries and you don't care too much if they die again, they also make better usage of the bonus to all defenses. It's like one of those fantasy tropes where people get started on necromancy by trying to bring back their dead dogs and cats.

Edited August 27 by NotDumbEnough

[Okkes]

Streetfighter/Bloodmage with the Red Hand, is like a machine gun. Use mohora wraps, cast DAoM and blood sac until you get below %50 health. 

[Chaospread]

21 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Why these subclasses granted that both are specially about summoning and you can't have GH pet along chanter summons. Are you hating pet that much ?

18 hours ago, Boeroer said:

I don't understand that choice either - also because with any Ranger/Chanter combo you can revive the animal companion potentially unlimited times (they don't get injured on knockout).

Yes, indeed, I like Ranger and his bonuses but I "hate" pet. I don't like having pet aside me whole time.
It is not for power playing reason but I don't wanna manage with Bonded Grief, I don't wanna spend point in animal abilities, I don't care about reviving pet (re-summon is just good enough), I rely on almost only ranger passives so summon pet is not a problem and (since I'm playing SOLO) in some areas I wanna use stealth mode without pet's hindrance. Furthermore it is a RPG choise: my PG conjure dead ancestors (animated weapons, ghosts and so on) for her (she is a lady) battles and her dead beloved bear, all slaughtered when she was very young.
I summon pet sometimes (indeed often) at the start of fights waiting for chanter summons; I like that style of playing and I am comfortable with it
Edit: And I forget, some abilities and equip abilities are more easily usable without having companions/pet (pure SOLO).

Edited August 28 by Chaospread
added a phrase

[Boeroer]

Animal Companions don't disturb your  stealth and even if you put zero points into the Animal Companion abilities you still can have an additional body + summons in the field - while you cannot have AC and chanter summons at the same time as a Ghost Heart/Chanter (except when using Many Lives or a replacement summon such as Ancient Brittle Bones). 

The biggest drawback for me would be that I would not be able to use Stalker's Link against bosses if I also wanted to use summons. 

Good point about items that require you to be truly alone - but most summons will cancel those beneficial effects, too, wouldn't they?

The rest of the points: fair enough. There's no argument when it comes to taste and what you enjoy (or don't enjoy). 

[Kaylon]

Another possibility is streetfighter/monk - you can stay bloodied using Mortification/Volatile Runelock and the monk also adds accuracy, speed, damage, penetration, lash, summons. With Shark Soup and Slippery Mind you are immune to all afflictions, you can also use items with various effects on your summons...