Max skill requirements in theory and in practice

[omgFIREBALLS]

I have a spreadsheet for my master plan of passing like, all skill checks. I play no rest with triple Hylea's Bounty and all that stuff, so I can get far but not all the way and I have to make some compromises (also because of ToI I can't just reload and use a consumable). I don't remember the site where I got the info but I'm getting the feeling that I'm not encountering all these skill checks or they are for like, the survivor trial that isn't happy until your whole party is injured anyway. So. If y'all could help me straighten some of these out...

Edit: Reached TFS again and it's helping fill in some blanks.

Edit 2: Let's make this prettier!

Edit 3: Actually, this is too nerdy to maintain, but enjoy what I did.

Active

Alchemy
17 - ? Reversing the herbicide in TFS?
16 - Gather plot-required pustules in the bowels in TFS. Can also be done with 18 Sleight of Hand. Can be done with no skill, but you get an injury.
16 - Inspect a bile pool in the bowels in TFS. Doesn't seem required.

Arcana
20 - ?
19 - Fluff in a conversation with Bekarna.
15 - Understand what Fyonlecg is trying to pull off. Fluff.
13 - Convince Wael to put their body back to sleep. Can also be done with 16 Diplomacy or being a Priest of Wael.

Athletics
22 - ?
19 - Descend into the final boss room in TFS, past the bowels, without injury.

Explosives
20 - ? Blowing up the door wall hiding the dragon skeleton in TFS? Can be done with tools.

Mechanics
26 - For the puzzle door in TFS? Can be passed without skill checks.

Sleight of Hand
18 - Gather plot-required pustules in the bowels in TFS. Can also be done with 16 Alchemy. Can be done with no skill, but you get an injury.
15 - Interact with the golem controller machine in TFS, allowing you to make the golems friendly.

Stealth
18 - ?

Passive

Bluff
20 - ? 
15 - Tell some lie about Tayn to Llengrath, probably fluff.

Diplomacy
23 - Something with the Giant Luminescent Spore in TFS. Didn't meet requirement.
17 (?) - Make Onekaza keep working with you after releasing the dragon. Possibly this is allowed either way and the diplomacy check just means you lose less reputation.
16 - Convince Wael to put their body back to sleep (13 Arcana or being Priest of Wael work too).

History
18 - Tell Fyonlecg history doesn't know his name. No effect.
15 - Know about Maura when Llengrath mentions her. Fluff.
??? - Something that actually matters.

Insight
20 - ?

Intimidate
22 - Make the Slaying Face back down from the fight in SSS.

Metaphysics
20 - "Talk" to the starmetal in the bowels, needed for Bekarna's quest. Skill only necessary to avoid a fight; quest can be completed either way. 15 skill will suggest it is at all possible. Fight can also be avoided by sacrificing Giftwrapper.
19 - Tell Fyonlecg he's stupid. He won't listen. Fluff.
17 - Understand the elevator spider in TFS, probably just fluff.

Religion
16 - ?

Streetwise
20 - I think we found out this one had something to do with the broken wagon on Maje Island.
15 - Unknown response to a Tayn/Llengrath interaction.

Survival
19 - ?
18 - Mansplain Llengrath to the crazy spore who thinks it's Llengrath, probably just fluff.

On my next playthrough I will just keep a record of the highest checks I encounter to see how much I actually need, but it'd be nice to get some of it sorted before that. So if you know any of these...

Edited August 6, 2023 by omgFIREBALLS

[Kaylon]

The site is down right now, but it listed the highest skill checks found in the game files. Some situations also give you the choice between multiple skill/stat checks and it might not be required to have everything maxed.

[thelee]

"in practice", what exactly does that entail? because many of the higher checks are not, strictly speaking, required, to complete a quest or interaction a certain way.

[omgFIREBALLS]

4 hours ago, thelee said:

"in practice", what exactly does that entail? because many of the higher checks are not, strictly speaking, required, to complete a quest or interaction a certain way.

I mean, how many actually accomplish something, rather than meaningless showoff in a conversation or similar. I've seen a bunch of checks that are very few points off the max and they're just being used to interject pointless blabber into Tayn and Llengrath's discussions.

[smilehigh]

Potentially useful topic!

Are these values for dialogue options with or without party assist?

[omgFIREBALLS]

They are from the site (whose URL eludes me) that Kaylon mentioned. I expect they are all party assisted dialogue checks, yes. It's been a long time; I just grabbed the values and used them as targets in my spreadsheet. In the glorious name of optimization, I would like to stop sacrificing stats to pass checks that don't interest me. ^^

Edit: It actually gets even nerdier, because for example when interacting with the pustules in the bowels, I can choose who does it, meaning my Watcher can be doing some party assisting instead of receiving it. It's quite important because usually to pass skill checks you need your Watcher to take a bit of everything, as direct skill is more important than party assist.

Edited August 6, 2023 by omgFIREBALLS

[omgFIREBALLS]

On 8/3/2023 at 6:29 AM, Kaylon said:

The site is down right now, but it listed the highest skill checks found in the game files. Some situations also give you the choice between multiple skill/stat checks and it might not be required to have everything maxed.

Do you remember exactly how detailed this site was? I started working on a program to datamine this stuff, but if it's not going to bring anything new...

As I recall, it listed the highest checks and the number of checks for each skill.

[omgFIREBALLS]

Okay, I started datamining. Here are 10 8 quick and dirty lists of the highest checks under various circumstances.

Watcher, party assisted
Alchemy: 15 (decipher notes for the +stat cauldron)
Arcana: 19 (conversational fluff with Bekarna)
Athletics: 15 (grab Neriscyrlas' phylactery unharmed - I doubt this one is actually Watcher specific)
Bluff: 20 (feign loyalty to Nemnok)
Diplomacy: 23 (negotiate with the mad spore in TFS)
Explosives: 17 (disarm the Godhammer in BoW)
History: 18 (declare contract illegal in TFS, probably avoiding a fight with the vithrack boss Sissak)
Insight: 20 (...some TFS puzzle?)
Intimidate: 22 (convince the Slaying Face to back down)
Mechanics: 12 (conversational fluff with the belt quest NPC in SSS)
Metaphysics: 20 (avoid fight over starmetal in TFS)
Religion: 16 (probably-fluff with Hafjorn in BoW)
Sleight_of_Hand: 15 (fake-drink blood in the Splintered Reef)
Stealth: 10 (sneak into naga cave on northeastern island - probably not actually Watcher specific)
Streetwise: 20 (unseen event with the broken wagon on the starter island)
Survival: 18 (mansplain Llengrath to the spore that thinks it's Llengrath)

Watcher, unassisted
Alchemy: 6 (poison the boar for the Survivor challenge)
Arcana: 13 (convince Wael to put their body back to sleep)
Athletics: 15 (enter the SSS arena complex via the well)
Bluff: 13 (something with the Spindle Man vithrack in Delver's Row)
Diplomacy: 16 (convince Wael to put their body back to sleep)
History: 7 (seems to create some kind of distraction to allow a companion to steal stuff in a wild encounter on the southwesternmost island)
Insight: 10 (call out a bluff from the Surviving Face in SSS)
Intimidate: 12 (threaten Wael, but pointless - they won't act differently even if you succeed)
Mechanics: 5 (uselessly try to open the chest that begins SSS)
Metaphysics: 8 (conversational fluff)
Religion: 12 (bow your head to something in a wilderness encounter - unsure of effect)
Sleight_of_Hand: 10 (steal from the camp on the Black Isle)
Stealth: 4 (knock out some xaurip by a shrine)
Streetwise: 12 (cheat in Orlan's Nose ship event)
Survival: 9 (avoid some lagufaeth trap)

For the next two: Initiating party member means you start an interaction in the real world. It's not a scripted one.

Initiating party member, party assisted (both of these are the pustule on the wall in the bowels in TFS, but there might be lower ones)
Alchemy: 16
Sleight_of_Hand: 18

Initiating party member, unassisted
Sleight_of_Hand: 5 (place a bomb in a brazier to try to assassinate some Wahaki)

The next ones should pertain to scripted interactions. Any means it's enough if one member passes. All means everyone has to pass.

Any, party assisted: 
Alchemy: 17 (turn herbicide into fertilizer in TFS)
Arcana: 20 (break an enchantment on some armor in TFS)
Athletics: 22 (knock down a wall in TFS - can be done with just tools)
Bluff: 15 (line seem related to the Wild Mare and/or Konstanten)
Diplomacy: 14 (make the escaped slaves on Crookspur Island stop shooting arrows at you)
Explosives: 20 (seems to be for the same wall as Athletics 22)
History: 14 (fluff about the armor worn by the frozen glamfellen near the Vytmadh portal in BoW)
Insight: 15 (something something Fyonlecg TFS)
Intimidate: 16 (make the escaped slaves on Crookspur Island stop shooting arrows at you)
Mechanics: 26 (open the trick lock in TFS - can be done without any skill)
Religion: 15 (seems to be fluff about identifying a wilderness shrine)
Sleight of Hand: 15 (mislead someone during the Slayer trial in SSS)
Stealth: 18 (some SSS wilderness check)
Streetwise: 15 (seems related to finding the chest for Pukestabber)
Survival: 19 (navigating the bog on the northwesternmost island)

Any, unassisted: 
Arcana: 4 (seems related to saving a man overboard during a storm)
Athletics: 15 (weird mixup with the similar Watcher-only check in SSS)
Bluff: 8 (seems to create some kind of distraction to allow a companion to steal stuff in a wild encounter on the southwesternmost island, see Watcher, history 7)
Explosives: 12 (blow up a naga totem, probably on a northeastern island)
History: 1 (uhh... do we care? probably the Wise Teeth Necklace druid on the starter island)
Mechanics: 11 (pin the drake in the SSS grand event)
Religion: 5 (...seems to be some fluff line by Xoti, so I'm not sure about the "any" part)
Sleight of Hand: 10 (steal a dagger from the campers on the southwesternmost island)
Stealth: 13 (?)
Survival: 9 (avoid some lagufaeth trap)

All, party assisted: 
Athletics: 19 (enter final boss room in TFS without injury)
Stealth: 13 (seems related to Nemnok's dungeon)

All, unassisted: 
Athletics: 8 (climb the gate tower in Hasongo)

Honorable mention for weirdest skill check
There is exactly one check that is hardcoded to a specific party member. During the wasteland trials to unlock the Survivor fights in SSS, there is a party assisted Athletics 10 check that is forced on party member 4.

 

TODO:
1) Fix eyesore code
2) Datamine context for the checks too
3) Datamine alternative ways to pass checks
4) Make beautiful thread

Edited August 7, 2023 by omgFIREBALLS

[Kaylon]

On 8/6/2023 at 7:15 PM, omgFIREBALLS said:

Do you remember exactly how detailed this site was? I started working on a program to datamine this stuff, but if it's not going to bring anything new...

As I recall, it listed the highest checks and the number of checks for each skill.

The site seems to be back

Deadfire Dialogue Options Report | Let's Play with Fire Wiki (fireundubh.com)