SC Troubadour or SC Bellower?

[mjo2138]

Hello everyone!

It is time for the next run on POTD-upscaled all, and my goal is to play classes I have never done so as the Watcher. Next up is SC Chanter.  I wanna try SC chanter so I can really explore the tree and the PL 8-9 spells.  I am aware there is more syngery using a MC chanter (such as a Helwalker/Troubadour for super accurate, fast invocations, or a Psion/Chanter)

 

Here are my thoughts:

1. SC Bellower, using typical chanter meta of Empower +Ice Tornado Spell +Sasha's Scimitar seems to be how this build would play. Before that spell, I guess I would be using the Shocking invocation, and some stun/paralyze invocations, and perhaps a summon here or there.  This build would need to be comfortable around the front lines, since lots of my invocations require close-ish range. How would you build stats? Priority on PER and INT, and some MIG, but I am unsure how much I can drain CON or DEX. Resolve I figure is a dump stat, since it is an all or nothing stat for deflection.

2. Why hit stronger, when you can hit more often? SC Troubadour could do everything a bellower can, more quickly, and with appropriate PER accuracy won't be an issue (esp. when a priest buffs me with DoTF).  I suppose I will have to 'wait' a bit longer to spam invocations, since everything is +1 resource malus for Troubadour; however, considering how fast I sing, does it even matter?

3.  As for weapon, Sasha's is the obvious choice, and I can AI it to switch my weapon set after I empower; however, I am pretty lazy so I can just see myself keeping it. Besides, I don't think you can AI script empowered abilities to be used. Now the question is, do I need a small/medium shield? I hate to decrease my accuracy, but at the same time, I need some survivability on the front lines.

4. A Staff or Pike would allow me to work on the front lines, too, since I am gonna be auto attacking between invocations. What weapon would you choose?

5. The great DEX debate. I am not gonna be chain casting invocations, so how much should I really invest in DEX? 

Many thanks in advanced for your thoughts!

[Boeroer]

For me it would be Troubadour. I like to be able to switch from long linger time to Brisk Recitation.

Beckoner Bellower + empowered Invocations does truly great things. I just find Troubadour better for parties - and more versatile in general. 

What about SC Skald (offensive Invocations +Blightheart for example - or Many Lives + Wahai Poraga...) - or SC Beckoner? Double upgraded Ancient Weapons (8 instead of 4) have impressive offensive output and cc capability. Even at lower levels stuff such as double wurms grills most enemies (as long as their PEN is still sufficient).

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by Boeroer

[mjo2138]

9 hours ago, Boeroer said:

For me it would be Troubadour. I like to be able to switch from long linger time to Brisk Recitation.

Beckoner + empowered Invocations does truly great things. I just find Troubadour better for parties - and more versatile in general. 

What about SC Skald (offensive Invocations +Blightheart for example - or Many Lives + Wahai Poraga...) - or SC Beckoner? Double upgraded Ancient Weapons (8 instead of 4) have impressive offensive output and cc capability. Even at lower levels stuff such as double wurms grills most enemies (as long as their PEN is still sufficient).

 

I appreciate the insights. I see the versatility of a Troubadour as a solid choice. As for Beckoner (or did you mean Bellower?) I enjoyed reading all the forum posts  about the meta for them. Funnily, I read that Bellower was supposed to called Murmurer. Haha!

So SC Skald would use invocation and have returned phrases when mobs die, and  Wahai Poraga would mean the skald kills their own skellies- that sounds cool. 

I like the idea of an SC Beckoner using the sheer mass or mobs plus Spark of the Righteous for super shocking abilities . Actually, I think SotR is really good - I swear it auto hits, and the PEN is decent (14 if I recall) which is more than enough to over pen most mobs -it seems like 11 or 12 AR is the usual Shock AR when devs decided to give mobs a 'weakness'

[Boeroer]

9 hours ago, mjo2138 said:

(or did you mean Bellower?

indeed 

9 hours ago, mjo2138 said:

So SC Skald would use invocation and have returned phrases when mobs die

Yes, when he would be using Blightheart then his kills will give him +1 phrase. This is pretty cool in combination with Her Revenge since it only costs 2 phrases for a Skald and stays viable thoughout the whole game. But of course his weapons crits won't generate phrases then because it's a ranged weapon. But the combination of low cost and phrase on kill (on top of the normal phrase generation) is pretty fun. Later Eld Nary's Curse is also a great option to kill enemies quickly and retrieve phrases quickly for the next "Curse".

9 hours ago, mjo2138 said:

and  Wahai Poraga would mean the skald kills their own skellies- that sounds cool. 

 Yes, in case the Skald uses Wahai Poraga he can "accidentially" hit his own skeletons. Kills don't do much for him then - but crits against the skeletons will be able to generate phrases for him. And since those Many-Lives-Skeletons have truly abysmal deflection he will crit them often. It's an easy way to generate phrases faster even gainst very high defense enemies.
I would advise to use the "fixed" Wahai Poraga of the Community Patch which works like the description says - and not the vanilla one (hits less targets than described). 
 

[Okkes]

Go trobodaur/helwalker, thank me later.

[mjo2138]

4 hours ago, Boeroer said:

indeed 

Yes, when he would be using Blightheart then his kills will give him +1 phrase. This is pretty cool in combination with Her Revenge since it only costs 2 phrases for a Skald and stays viable thoughout the whole game. But of course his weapons crits won't generate phrases then because it's a ranged weapon. But the combination of low cost and phrase on kill (on top of the normal phrase generation) is pretty fun. Later Eld Nary's Curse is also a great option to kill enemies quickly and retrieve phrases quickly for the next "Curse".

 Yes, in case the Skald uses Wahai Poraga he can "accidentially" hit his own skeletons. Kills don't do much for him then - but crits against the skeletons will be able to generate phrases for him. And since those Many-Lives-Skeletons have truly abysmal deflection he will crit them often. It's an easy way to generate phrases faster even gainst very high defense enemies.
I would advise to use the "fixed" Wahai Poraga of the Community Patch which works like the description says - and not the vanilla one (hits less targets than described). 
 

I really like the idea of a lightening centric Skald , especially considering how valuable shock dmg is . I think the devs want us to use shock dmg the most, hence why Lord Darryon's Vogue, Essence Interrupter, are available from early game. My vision of the skald is hitting hard and fast with lower PL abilities, so I have to ask: what martial class would go well with a skald? 

I like Barbarian passives, but I don't see much reason to be using their shouts if I am casting lots of invocations, one after the other.

From a metagaming perspective, I see how using Dance of Death would stack well with my invocations - more accuracy is always better. However, the issue is being a front liner means I am gonna take a lot of dmg. 

Since I would be critting my skellies, I am not sure a Rogue is necessary. It would allow for more dmg, but my primary role is invocations. 

Paladin would pride me with hardy defensiive abilties for myself and others in a pinch, as well as passive healing. This would solve the issue of chanters being destroyed as front liners, since I'd lack reliabel defensiive a I have never played Steel Garrote but I understand I can heal myself through dmg. 

So this leaves fighter. Having immediate access to Intuitive means I would hit even harder with invocations, defensive, and penetrating strikes (ono of my fav skills). From a thematic perspective, I could Lord Darryon's Vogue but I miss out on the +Storm PLs, since I don't use that key word.

In some ways, it is more exciting to be a fighter/skald than a pally/skald. (Yet having a Hearld means I may not even need a Priest or additional healer!) 

[mjo2138]

1 hour ago, Okkes said:

Go trobodaur/helwalker, thank me later.

I can see a lot of usefulness in that build, esp. with using offensive invocations and debuffs such as paralyze or stun ones, as well as others. 

[masterty66]

Whatever you do, using Sasha's Singing Scimitar for a free per encounter empower is recommended. You can use two weapon sets and swap to your main weapon once you use the empower.

I just feel like that's too powerful not to make use of. Empowered her tears or eld nary can obliterate foes.

[mjo2138]

33 minutes ago, masterty66 said:

Whatever you do, using Sasha's Singing Scimitar for a free per encounter empower is recommended. You can use two weapon sets and swap to your main weapon once you use the empower.

I just feel like that's too powerful not to make use of. Empowered her tears or eld nary can obliterate foes.

Thanks. Yes I like that on a lot.  That is one big reason I was going to be a Bellower.  That would be a nice alternative from using Greater Maelstrom 

 

Oh, I forgot to ask: What stats would you all recommend for an SC Troubadour?  I maxed PER and INT, and keep MIG/CON at 12. I really don't wanna dump RES since I am gonna be on the front lines, but I figure -5 deflection won't make anyways, esp. if I have high CON. on POTD enemies always hit you unless you stack RES/Deflection, so there really is not a point of having RES as a moderate amount , right ? 

[masterty66]

5 hours ago, mjo2138 said:

Thanks. Yes I like that on a lot.  That is one big reason I was going to be a Bellower.  That would be a nice alternative from using Greater Maelstrom 

 

Oh, I forgot to ask: What stats would you all recommend for an SC Troubadour?  I maxed PER and INT, and keep MIG/CON at 12. I really don't wanna dump RES since I am gonna be on the front lines, but I figure -5 deflection won't make anyways, esp. if I have high CON. on POTD enemies always hit you unless you stack RES/Deflection, so there really is not a point of having RES as a moderate amount , right ? 

I'm not the chanter expert or anything but those stats seem fine to me. Per & Int seem at a glance to be the most important stats for a chanter as those will help durations, aoe size, and accuracy of invocations. 

Res affects deflection but also the duration of hostile effects on you so I don't particularly like dumping that one all the way down for most classes. If you dump it low, then hostile effects will last longer on you and that can be devastating if you're getting enfeebled or stunned or paralyzed or whatever for long durations. I recently dumped Resolve to 3 on a Seer (Stalker/Soulblade) that I did, but the reason why I did that was because I was using Pyschovampiric Shield and Borrowed Instinct to boost my defenses and resolve during combat, so dumping that stat wasn't a big deal.

So imo I wouldn't dump Resolve much below like 8 or so. But that's just me. I'd probably max int/per and balance the rest of the attributes as best you can. If you're using the Berath Blessing of +2 all stats that should especially be enough to make you well rounded enough for your Chanter.

[mjo2138]

1 hour ago, masterty66 said:

I'm not the chanter expert or anything but those stats seem fine to me. Per & Int seem at a glance to be the most important stats for a chanter as those will help durations, aoe size, and accuracy of invocations. 

Res affects deflection but also the duration of hostile effects on you so I don't particularly like dumping that one all the way down for most classes. If you dump it low, then hostile effects will last longer on you and that can be devastating if you're getting enfeebled or stunned or paralyzed or whatever for long durations. I recently dumped Resolve to 3 on a Seer (Stalker/Soulblade) that I did, but the reason why I did that was because I was using Pyschovampiric Shield and Borrowed Instinct to boost my defenses and resolve during combat, so dumping that stat wasn't a big deal.

So imo I wouldn't dump Resolve much below like 8 or so. But that's just me. I'd probably max int/per and balance the rest of the attributes as best you can. If you're using the Berath Blessing of +2 all stats that should especially be enough to make you well rounded enough for your Chanter.

That is a good point about being stunned or paralyzed; esp when a warrior charges you and you are essentially out of the fight for 8 seconds, esp. in Forgotten Sanctum battles such as the Frightened Child. Stalker/Soulblade sounds like a great build! 

 

[masterty66]

28 minutes ago, mjo2138 said:

That is a good point about being stunned or paralyzed; esp when a warrior charges you and you are essentially out of the fight for 8 seconds, esp. in Forgotten Sanctum battles such as the Frightened Child. Stalker/Soulblade sounds like a great build! 

 

It was a lot of fun. Sun & Moon + Tuotilo's and then later Seeker's Fang + Gravecalling. Super high accuracy and shredded single targets. Ranged Seers are fantastic as well but I quite enjoyed my melee Seer.

[Boeroer]

17 hours ago, mjo2138 said:

I like Barbarian passives, but I don't see much reason to be using their shouts if I am casting lots of invocations, one after the other.

Berserker/Skald with Blightheart and Ancient Brittle Bones and/or Many-Lives Skeletons can do this:

Don't mind the monk abilites in the action bar: it was a test character cobbled together with the console. 

Confusion makes sure that Her Revenge hits your skeletons also. Every kill triggers Bloodlust and Blood Thirst, prolongs Blood Storm and gives +1 phrase via Blightheart - doesn't matter if skeleton or actual enemy.

Barbaric Roar is a nice additional ranged CC tool because unlike invocations it doesn't pause chanting at all.   

Of course Her Revenge will also hit your party members in this configuration, so watch out. Chants don't affect party members in a bad way even when confused - so that's safe. For Many Lives confusion doesn't matter at all anyway (besides duration, but you're going to kill them off way before they disappear anyway).

With this setup you want to stick to Her Revenge and not use Eld Nary!  

Berserker/Troubadour also works that way. Her Revenge and such will be twice the cost - but you will be producing phrases with Brisk Recitation twice as fast AND produce twice the Many Lives skeletons for killing on top. 

So Berserker/Skald or Troubadour is a matter of taste in this case I guess. 

---
What also works really well for Skald is a dual dagger setup with Pukestabber and Lover's Embrace and all the speed buffs you can get. SC works, but multiclass also of course (Barb, Monk, Ranger...)

---

Another great phrase generator for a Skald is Mohora Tanga. Since it's DoT can proc itself and is considered a melee weapon attack it makes gaining a phrase from crit almost certain instead of only 50%. Great with Ranger as second class (high ACC).

---

Saru Sichr has two attack rolls instead of one (1 physical, one DoT). This can be good for a SC Skald but is even better for a Skald/Barb:
Use Body Blows and Spirit Frenzy as well as the Long Night's Drink to destroy enemies' fortitude defense and use Brute Force to always attack that low fortitude then. The Morning Star attack will then crit more often and the DoT (also considered melee weapon attack) which targets fortitude naturally will do that, too. Easier to get phrases that way and great debuffing along the lines. 

---

Skald/Black Jacket is also nice if you want to use a mix of weapon effects, for example Wahai Poraga for skeletons crits, Sasha's Singing Scimitar for that empored invocation and Blightheart evey time you suspect an invocation to kill an enemy. Just switch with 0 penalty as soon as you think one of that setups is advantageous in the next moment

---

Troubadour/Mage Slayer with Effort+Hemorrhaging, Hylea's Talons and the use of Come Soft Winds & Dragon Thrashed in combination with Blood Surge and the Champion invocation is one of the few setups where I like to use both DoT phrases. They will cause procs of Hemorrhaging on crit. So basically Effort's Hemorrhaing enchantment procs with everything that crits, even chants. Hemorrhaging is considered a weapon attack which procs Hylea's Talons DoT (which is a melee attack). This also procs the Mage Slayer's spell disruption effect on the enemies. Their Champion (energized) lets you interrupt with every hit. So you basically will have a walking interrupter and spell disrupter who does that all just by singing. This also puts a load of DoTs on the enemies (Hylea's and Blood Storm on top of Come/Dragon Thrashed). And on top of that the weapon damage of Effort is pretty great, too.

  

[mjo2138]

9 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Berserker/Skald with Blightheart and Ancient Brittle Bones and/or Many-Lives Skeletons can do this:

Don't mind the monk abilites in the action bar: it was a test character cobbled together with the console. 

Confusion makes sure that Her Revenge hits your skeletons also. Every kill triggers Bloodlust and Blood Thirst, prolongs Blood Storm and gives +1 phrase via Blightheart - doesn't matter if skeleton or actual enemy.

Barbaric Roar is a nice additional ranged CC tool because unlike invocations it doesn't pause chanting at all.   

Of course Her Revenge will also hit your party members in this configuration, so watch out. Chants don't affect party members in a bad way even when confused - so that's safe. For Many Lives confusion doesn't matter at all anyway (besides duration, but you're going to kill them off way before they disappear anyway).

With this setup you want to stick to Her Revenge and not use Eld Nary!  

Berserker/Troubadour also works that way. Her Revenge and such will be twice the cost - but you will be producing phrases with Brisk Recitation twice as fast AND produce twice the Many Lives skeletons for killing on top. 

So Berserker/Skald or Troubadour is a matter of taste in this case I guess. 

---
What also works really well for Skald is a dual dagger setup with Pukestabber and Lover's Embrace and all the speed buffs you can get. SC works, but multiclass also of course (Barb, Monk, Ranger...)

---

Another great phrase generator for a Skald is Mohora Tanga. Since it's DoT can proc itself and is considered a melee weapon attack it makes gaining a phrase from crit almost certain instead of only 50%. Great with Ranger as second class (high ACC).

---

Saru Sichr has two attack rolls instead of one (1 physical, one DoT). This can be good for a SC Skald but is even better for a Skald/Barb:
Use Body Blows and Spirit Frenzy as well as the Long Night's Drink to destroy enemies' fortitude defense and use Brute Force to always attack that low fortitude then. The Morning Star attack will then crit more often and the DoT (also considered melee weapon attack) which targets fortitude naturally will do that, too. Easier to get phrases that way and great debuffing along the lines. 

---

Skald/Black Jacket is also nice if you want to use a mix of weapon effects, for example Wahai Poraga for skeletons crits, Sasha's Singing Scimitar for that empored invocation and Blightheart evey time you suspect an invocation to kill an enemy. Just switch with 0 penalty as soon as you think one of that setups is advantageous in the next moment

---

Troubadour/Mage Slayer with Effort+Hemorrhaging, Hylea's Talons and the use of Come Soft Winds & Dragon Thrashed in combination with Blood Surge and the Champion invocation is one of the few setups where I like to use both DoT phrases. They will cause procs of Hemorrhaging on crit. So basically Effort's Hemorrhaing enchantment procs with everything that crits, even chants. Hemorrhaging is considered a weapon attack which procs Hylea's Talons DoT (which is a melee attack). This also procs the Mage Slayer's spell disruption effect on the enemies. Their Champion (energized) lets you interrupt with every hit. So you basically will have a walking interrupter and spell disrupter who does that all just by singing. This also puts a load of DoTs on the enemies (Hylea's and Blood Storm on top of Come/Dragon Thrashed). And on top of that the weapon damage of Effort is pretty great, too.

  

These are some great suggestions. I have not played a dagger character yet, such as Mirke with Pukestabber/Lover's Embrace (or Marux Amath (sp) , and now I see how it would work with a skald. 

 

I really like the idea of Skald /Black Jackey ; actually, I was gonna roll one until I decided on a Beckoner. Of course I had to name him Truthsayer to coincide with the release of Dune Part 2!