SSS Changeling Dance - How to complete solo with Vela? ALT: How to add Vela to party (both solved)

[Shai Hulud]

I'm working on a build (MC monk) to do an ultimate style run using the BPM mod, which removed most of the abusive mechanics like using Strand of Favor to extend invisibility with Slippers of the Assassin. I've solved every encounter but this one. I could go seeker or survivor route but these force rests, which I'd strongly prefer not to do. Also the Slayer's Claw is really nice and lets me get Energized from Thunderous Blows. 

This build actually does fine soloing the changeling's dance, but NOT with Vela in tow. My experience is the rogue and ranger prioritize Vela as a target, and 9 times out of 10 kill her. If I'm able to start the encounter stealthed, I can move her far enough away and circle around, take out the rogue and ranger, and then put myself between Vela and the ciper, monk, and fighter. 

But I can't start stealthed. Not sure if it's because Humaire sees me or the transformation turns me into the ironclad construct and immediately emits a fiery aura which starts combat.

In my vanilla ultimate run (still unverified, Obsidian) I used the Slippers of the Assassin to start invisible plus stealthed, and that does work, together with circling around and starting behind the ranger. So I'm trying to figure out how to start the encounter invisible, or otherwise protect Vela without abilities, potions, or scrolls. I figure this is impossible so I'm focusing on starting invisible. 

I have tried the following

1. Gulping a potion of invisibility at the end of an arena fight. The duration is 30+ seconds which theoretically should be long enough, but the invisibility from the potions ends when combat ends. Didn't know that, unfortunate. 
2. Tried leading out Humaire and company with sparkcrackers, all the way to the south end of the hall, then running back, stealthing, and starting the encounter. I do start stealthed this way but it still turns me visible on transformation. 
3. Killing Humaire and company with summons, then killing the last one myself to proc the Slippers. This does give me invisibility, and with 18 INT, Strand of Favor, and Ooblit equipped (consoled him in), this gets me about 12 seconds of invisibility. It isn't enough to even get through the forced conversation with the ghosts of Humaire and that other guy. 
4. After step 3, led an Arena Warden near Cook Corrin to the pedestal using sparkcrackers then killed him to proc invisibility. This ALMOST was enough, but time passes while the slaying face yells "luck is for the weak" and all that, and it runs out. I think I need somewhere in the range of 15 to 20s of invisibility.

After step 4 I ran out of ideas and here I am. Are there other ways to become invisible out of combat? Or some way to extend the slippers invisibility even longer or skip the slaying face's speech? Or some other way to get Vela out of harm's reach when I can't use abilities etc.?

If I can't figure this out I'll have to go Seeker or Survivor path and lose my Dawnstar blessing, nature's resolve, alchemic wits/guile/brawn, amira's blessing, rikuhu's blessing, etc., which is not ideal. I can probably still complete the challenge this route, but I'd either need to skip these buffs, do the forced rest *first*, circle back to get buffs, or do SSS last. Second choice is probably easier, but both routes are a bit circuitous. I'd normally do SSS => HOW => Dorudugan => BW => FS => Auranic  => endgame, I guess this way I'd go Auranic => BW => FS => Dorudugan => HOW => SSS => endgame. Not a very clean route, wastes several days going to Auranic first, but otherwise I'm fighting Auranic without the buffs which isn't great either. Also have to fight the Purakau and some SSS fights without the buffs, so...much prefer not to rest.

EDIT

I tried noqn's Seeker Slayer Survivor standalone mod but it doesn't seem to work with Vela, so although I have Hylea's Challenge enabled she doesn't appear, I guess because I skipped the scene at the beach. There must be a way to console her in but I can't figure it out. 

There just has to be a less tedious way to test this fight than to run through half the game with vela in tow and unlock SSS...

EDIT 2

Solved the encounter using invisibility and very careful kiting, see my post near the bottom for details.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Shai Hulud

[thelee]

4 hours ago, Shai Hulud said:

Strand of Favor

maybe i'm missing something, but are you not able to do the Strand of Favor cheese? that should give you plenty of invisibility

(You can rapidly pick it up and drop it back into your inventory slot, and every single instance of this gives you a compounding 10% increase in duration. Also works with that armor that has the +10% duration enchantment (the gambeson))

[Shai Hulud]

6 hours ago, Shai Hulud said:

I'm working on a build (MC monk) to do an ultimate style run using the BPM mod, which removed most of the abusive mechanics like using Strand of Favor to extend invisibility with Slippers of the Assassin

 

1 hour ago, thelee said:

maybe i'm missing something, but are you not able to do the Strand of Favor cheese? that should give you plenty of invisibility

(You can rapidly pick it up and drop it back into your inventory slot, and every single instance of this gives you a compounding 10% increase in duration. Also works with that armor that has the +10% duration enchantment (the gambeson))

Afeared not sir. Strand of Favor, Cabalist's Gambeson...they don't extend existing buffs in BPM. I am intimately familiar with that mechanic, even made a *very* simple macro to swap the items as fast as possible. But been there done that, on to new challenges.

I take it protecting Vela in this fight is hopeless without starting invisible? I can't actually test it with this build because although I started this save file with all the trials (except iron), once you use OpenCharacterCreation to test new builds, Vela disappears the next time you load the game and I have no idea how to make her spawn back. It says the Hylea challenge is enabled but she just isn't there. 

I wonder if there's a SSS standalone mod, could try it out that way if there is. I feel like 99% sure it's impossible to save Vela though, or at least you're praying to RNGesus which doesn't work well with an iron run.

Maybe I should just enable the no forced rests mod and go seeker. 

[Shai Hulud]

Broadening topic scope. Trying to practice this fight with Vela in tow. noqn's Seeker Slayer Survivor standalone mod seemed like a good idea but Vela doesn't spawn if you select Hylea's challenge. Must be some way to console her in but I can't figure it out.

Next fastest thing would be I guess to teleport my party to SSS right after picking up Vela at the beach, not sure how to do that either.

------

I found a save where I just needed to go to Ashen Maw, so did that, opened SSS, unfortunately using OpenCharacterCreation() causes Vela to disappear after one fight, so it is pretty tedious to practice. I think I have more control in this fight in turn-based mode, assuming I can't start invisible. When I'm able to engage all the melee characters and get close enough to the ranger and rogue, Vela is (relatively) safe, at least until I eat a skyward kick and they run off to kill her. 

Been practicing this fight and it is harder than I remember with a transcendent. I thought I was winning like 9/10 or so when last I tried, but maybe that was with a SC monk, not entirely sure. I have lots of good passives like soul mirror, rooting pain, forbidden fist which heals me about 32 per wound, heartbeat drumming (rarely procs sadly), enervating blows, etc. Basically rebuilt the character with no active abilities besides iron wheel and took as many passives as I could. Only seem to be winning like 1 in 5. 

So in this fight there are six enemies. It would be trivial if I weren't a stupid hunk of metal that is really slow and does like no damage. 

Enemies are

cipher - center and closest, probably the least threat though she can go after Vela sometimes

fighter - left center, lowish threat though hard to kill, and if sundering blow hits while his buddies are near can take off a good chunk of health

monk - right center, seems like the highest initial threat as has absurdly high PEN at 19 and skyward kicks will mess you up for rounds if they hit. His health isn't as high as some of the others but I think attacking him first is the wrong idea, most times I attack him first I do kill him but by then my health is low and the rogue finishes me off.

wolf - starts near ranger but quickly closes distance. Should be low threat but has very high accuracy and frequently uses shadowed hunters so he either does almost no damage on graze/hit or a lot of damage on crit. One of the harder enemies to kill, as he has 11 armor vs my wimpy 9 / 11 pen attacks. 

rogue - starts far and fires dual pistols. Doesn't seem like much of a threat initially. Does low damage and soul mirror causes him to hit himself a lot. Besides blind his debuffs aren't that bad, except for gouging strike. If hit with gouging strike the fight becomes very hard to finish, that 3 tick per round as you finish off the fighter makes things that much harder. Also he starts using eliminating blows and deathblows eventually doing massive damage, so I think the rogue is probably the most urgent threat, however I have to basically waste a turn to get to him first. 

ranger - not much of a threat, bow has bad penetration and hits get reflected a lot. 

Doesn't seem that hard, but I have little control over the stupid metal thing. Only item that does anything is the pet. I can't decide whether I prefer Blinky (+5 accuracy), Bear Cub (+8 fort and some damage, makes harder to get kicked by monk), Amanita (some extra armor and health, though armor rarely makes a difference), or Retina (requires 4 to flank, so it is a little harder for the enemies to maintain their +10 accuracy flanking debuff. Probably some argument for others, maybe Prissy for the healing? Though the pet alone probably isn't going to decide this outcome and tactics are limited. 

This may be a true gating encounter in BPM. Will update if I figure it out, would appreciate suggestions.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Shai Hulud

[Kvellen]

14 hours ago, Shai Hulud said:

Trying to practice this fight with Vela in tow. noqn's Seeker Slayer Survivor standalone mod seemed like a good idea but Vela doesn't spawn if you select Hylea's challenge. Must be some way to console her in but I can't figure it out.

Vela is summoned to the player using a hidden ability so can be added with the following console command:

AddAbility b1a8e901-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 2bb3ebf1-9630-4417-b0f5-6a674be27a88

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by Kvellen

[Kaylon]

With the right build a FF is one of the few classes able to solo Changelling Dance 100% of the time. The secret is to keep the rogue alive because his Deep Wounds work like a healing battery. The killing order should be monk>cipher>fighter>wolf>ranger (the rogue should be already dead from Soul Mirror).

[Shai Hulud]

2 hours ago, Kvellen said:

Vela is summoned to the player using a hidden ability so can be added with the following console command:

AddAbility b1a8e901-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 2bb3ebf1-9630-4417-b0f5-6a674be27a88

 

Oh my God thank you!

10 minutes ago, Kaylon said:

With the right build a FF is one of the few classes able to solo Changelling Dance 100% of the time. The secret is to keep the rogue alive because his Deep Wounds work like a healing battery. The killing order should be monk>cipher>fighter>wolf>ranger (the rogue should be already dead from Soul Mirror).

Thanks, I sorta accidentally figured this out after a couple more hours of testing. I'm not at 100% yet but my best success so far was monk cipher wolf fighter Ranger rogue

Rogue was not already dead though, only hurt.

I think switching to prissy as pet may have helped also, as with her you get about 20 health per kill and 34 per round from deep wounds. Blinky seems like a good option as well.

In turn based there still seems to be some luck involved in whether I can kill the monk before some bad combination happens like sundering blow > all the melees hit me > rogue hits with eliminating blow or skyward kick > they get a couple free rounds.

Once monk was down and the rogue was out of abilities it was easy as the other chars couldn't do more damage per turn than I was healing.

My stats are 14 / 8 / 3 / 19 / 13 / 19

I realize for this particular fight I'm probably better off with dumped INT and higher dex (and more CON), but I like this spread for other fights, have enough resolve buffs to get to 35 and with clarity of agony and swift flurry the curse is about 2s and I attack every 2s (naked or with robes).

I could increase CON some, dump INT and use turning wheel...

[Shai Hulud]

6 hours ago, Kvellen said:

Vela is summoned to the player using a hidden ability so can be added with the following console command:

AddAbility b1a8e901-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 2bb3ebf1-9630-4417-b0f5-6a674be27a88

 

Okay so now I can practice with Vela (thanks!), and I've made some progress but still haven't figured out this fight. 

If you start the fight stealthed, you immediately get unstealthed but you get initiative. If Vela happens to be directly behind you, you can sometimes keep the ranger and rogue from priority targeting her with thorny roots and eliminating blows. But she has to be like directly behind you as far as she can spawn, and I'm pretty sure her movements are random. 

If you start the fight stealthed AND invisible, then you can move far enough away to allow repositioning. In my ultimate run I did this to circle around and kill the ranger then rogue then the melees. But, I had procced conduit and blade cascade so I could down them in like 6s. Without these, circling around to zerg the ranger + rogue may not work. 

I did figure out how to start stealthed and invisible, though. With equipped Heaven's Cacophony, Kuaru's Prize, Strand of Favor, and Ooblit, I then use The Eye of Wael against Vela until I proc Obfuscation, which with these items and my INT score lasts 16.3s. After switching pets, rapidly opening The Changeling's Dance and mashing spacebar I then have about 1.8s of invisibility to run away from the fight.

Some problems

1) It is much easier to protect Vela in turn based mode because I will act first and can keep Vela as far behind me as possible while rushing the enemy. But in turn based mode, I have 1 round of invisibility left (more like 0, but in effect one). But Vela just stands there even if I run away.

2) In RTWP, which I normally use, she immediately follows me and gets out of harm's way, but it is hard to get her to stay far enough away from the ranger that he doesn't hit her with thorny roots

3) If I weren't a stupid golem, I'd have options like take Vela to corner of map and use A Whale of A Wand on her to charm her so she stays there

4) If combat hadn't already started, I could get Vela where I want and then use console settactical mode 1, but you can't change from RTWP to turn-based once combat starts, even if nobody has done anything. 

So either she sits there in turn-based and gets murdered, or she follows me in RTWP, where I can get her far away but haven't figured out how to get her to stay there. This is tricky, may still be impossible to do with a high probability of success. If I start turn-based and am lucky enough for her to be behind me, then yeah I think I can do it, but it's freaking random so I guess I have to do RTWP. 

Ideally you just keep Vela out of range of everyone and then kill them in order @Kaylon suggested, monk, cipher, fighter, wolf, ranger, rogue, but if Vela wanders too close she gets hit with Thorny roots and everything falls apart. So one solution is to go ranger, rogue, monk, cipher, fighter, wolf, but they still may kill Vela before I can kill them and it makes it harder for me to survive.

Definitely the trickiest fight to do under ultimate conditions...

Also tried using A Whale of a Wand to charm Vela, but I guess that just works once combat is started? I was able to turn her into a pig. Thought maybe that would change her AI into running away, it actually does the opposite. She charges straight in and attacks, doing surprisingly good damage (for Vela). Even after the pig effect wore off she kept fighting for a few rounds before becoming terrified. Very strange. 

I'm also trying to kite the rogue, ranger, or wolf but the only kiting method I have is to stand on the edge of their stealth detection radius, let the circle go red, then run away, then try that again. Haven't been able to get far enough away to isolate anyone. 

@abot I figure if anyone knows how to deal with Vela here it would be you. Though I saw in your ultimate run you did Survivor path so maybe it is hopeless.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Shai Hulud

[abot]

 

I don't know, I think it would be feasible with my full buffed build as chanter skeletons chant (and probably the healing one too) still work as cannon fodder so if you rush the enemies you have a good chance Vela is only hit max once.
But if you are using the community patch / no strand of favor like buffs prolonging then you might not be fast enough killing them.
Maybe try a monk/troubadour
also no idea how in this f* editor you can edit/insert a link to a specific video time so remove the h ttps space after copying the link in browser

h ttps://youtu.be/q9tBtjCur8g?list=PL7Rqzk0KXtVxElgWZQtRXrtYaUO6qH-N4&t=8375

[Shai Hulud]

4 hours ago, abot said:

 

I don't know, I think it would be feasible with my full buffed build as chanter skeletons chant (and probably the healing one too) still work as cannon fodder so if you rush the enemies you have a good chance Vela is only hit max once.
But if you are using the community patch / no strand of favor like buffs prolonging then you might not be fast enough killing them.
Maybe try a monk/troubadour
also no idea how in this f* editor you can edit/insert a link to a specific video time so remove the h ttps space after copying the link in browser

h ttps://youtu.be/q9tBtjCur8g?list=PL7Rqzk0KXtVxElgWZQtRXrtYaUO6qH-N4&t=8375

So chants keep going? Bizarre, since nothing else outside passives works, but yeah a ff / troubadour would absolutely crush this fight in that case. You can start invisible and stealthed even without strand of favor etc. using A Whale of A Wand, then you back away from the fight, the skeletons may actually still run towards the enemies and fight them (this seems to depend how close you are). If they don't you just circle around to the ranger, zerg the ranger asap and hopefully enough skellies to keep enemies running past you if you're skyward kicked. Pretty sure this will work.

But this cantor build might have some trouble with Hauni O Whe. I suspect with Hauni O Whe it will be very hard next to impossible stopping the merges, unless you keep up Their Champion Braved The Horde Alone at that point AND energized interrupts apply to spells, which I'm not sure it does. There's stunning surge and raised torment for smaller oozes, but can't reliably hit the gigantic ones. Start casting stacks of scroll of storm of holy fire or something, I guess, if energized works on spells at least some of those should interrupt.

Dorudugan should still be beatable as I easily did so without invoking any cipher spells besides soul annihilation. It would be grindy given lower accuracy and no soul annihilation, but I think doable. Probably the rest of megabosses doable, so just Hauni O Whe potentially as a problem. 

I really like the transcendent build though, seems to fit more naturally, get the huge accuracy bonuses + very frequent soul annihilation for massive damage. I played this type of cantor a little bit. Was mostly using Instruments of Pain to make FF attacks from behind summons. Landed on transcendent as a better build because you can already do this with dichotomous souls, plus get other cipher goodies.

I like spiritualist also but I'm almost certain a spiritualist can't beat Dorudugan in modded game. You need things like Conduit or Blade Cascade. Just casting Pain Link on the summons would work if Pain Link worked as advertised, but it only really procs correctly on disengagement attacks. And I've tried doing that in slow mode with very intense micromanagement over probably like 2hours, and could never get him bloodied.

Noticed in your ultimate run you do SSS early. Did you go ahead and pick up Nature's Resolve and Dawnstar Blessing and just go rest of the game without after SSS, or did you skip the boons and come get them later? I think with survivor's path I can probably do SSS without these boons, then circle back in a weird way.

Would prefer I could just win this fight though...I have done it a few times with Vela in tow but it pretty much has to be turn based mode and she has to start directly behind you. Then you rush the ranger, who is the biggest threat to Vela. If she is directly behind you as far as she can go then he probably won't target her until you get hit with Skyward Kick, so killing the monk is also very high priority. Or you could build for like 200 fortitude so he always misses. I think this is barely possible with max might, 35 CON from iron wheel and buffs, plus bear cub, would have to dump INT completely, could use turning wheel in fights where I want some INT I guess...

One tactic that could work is to proc a very high damage conduit (like 200%). I think that gives about 23s with ooblit so you'd start the fight with like 8s of conduit, in turn based that could be translated into 2 rounds which would be enough to zerg the ranger. Hmm. Going to try this. Proccing conduit for one fight is really annoying though... gotta crit oneself scrolls of chain lightning which can take a lot of scrolls. Alternatively crackling bolt scrolls work but do less damage. Scrolls of great maelstrom do the most damage but it is easy to die from them.

Ah I don't this will work. Actually lasts 19s since my INT is as high as it can go already (13 base) without running into curse problems, which translates to just the first round of attacks unfortunately, so I get one attack at triple damage. Better than nothing I guess. 

I can't think of much else I can proc that would be of benefit without being able to extend it. Blade Cascade only lasts 5s. Maybe could have some stacks from adaptive.

--------

Well, with the right items (arcanist's balm, chromoprismatic quarterstaff -> chain lightning self for elemental induction -> drink healing potion ->switch to griffin's blade, nemnok's cloak, left hand of the obscured, kuaru's prize, sash of judgment, ooblit, sandals of the water lily, high harbinger's robe, the third eye, and deltro's cage helm) and improved critical I self damage +150% damage on a roll on crit. If the roll is good I can get like +250% weapon damage, which is enough to one-shot the ranger unless I'm really unlucky and graze him a bunch. But if the monk hits me with skyward kick they rush vela. I can also one-shot the monk, then attack the ranger I guess. He will land a couple thorny roots but by itself that isn't enough to kill vela. 

------

Actually tried with a cantor and the fight is possible to do 100% with vela though it is kind of weird. You have to start stealthed + invisible, which leaves about 2s of invisibility from obfuscation (eye of wael) at the start of the fight. You can't have any hostile chant going or vela gets scared (and visible), so I had ancient memory, many lives pass by and got far enough away before the skeletons spawned that they didn't go hostile. I thought I might be able to just send the skeletons in but they don't do this until someone in the party is threatened, otherwise they just stand there. 

But, the skeletons spawning in stealth procs the enemy's stealth detection like laying a trap, so I was able to lure away the monk to the far left, kill him, vela gets scared now and won't leave this area, switch to pure many lives pass by chant, the skeletons run towards the center and the fighter etc move towards to engage. But you don't engage, instead circle around using the skeletons to pull the enemies to the far right of the map. If you do all this correctly the only time vela is threatened at all is during the monk fight and one on one with ancient memory going she is fine. 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Shai Hulud

[Shai Hulud]

I've been testing the cantor build some more. Its main weakness is relatively low accuracy and no obvious way to deal with Hauani O Whe. I've managed to get one of the gigantic oozes down to near death a couple times but just barely, and the fight is so frustrating to practice since solo it takes over half an hour to get through the first stage.

With INT buffed the cone from The Thunder Rolled Like Waves On Black Seas (and it's crash could not be denied upgrade) can just barely hit both gigantic oozes if you get them next to each other. Stuns from hits last about 10s, but pretty often you graze against one, and occasionally outright miss. I tried a few times using the Gloves of the Dungeon Warden. If I had infinite reloads I think I could win eventually if I get a crit on lockdown, but more often I graze, which buys you about 18s. Also BPM nerfed troubadour's brisk recitation (not sure it's justified honestly) to -33% phrase duration instead of -50%, so instead of taking 12 seconds to get the 4 phrases for the stun cone, it takes 16. Eventually you graze both or miss one.

Have tried various scrolls with max arcana. Meteor Shower does a lot of damage but it doesn't seem to interrupt, even when I drink a potion of impediment beforehand. Same with scroll of storm of holy fire. Tornado does interrupt but the knock up period is fairly brief. Maybe if I read like 10 in a row I can finish a gigantic form. Have also tried Avenging Storm scroll with potion of impediment, but this doesn't seem worth it as the scroll only lasts 35s and doesn't seem to proc that much anyway. And have tried using Their Champion Braved the Horde Alone but it seems pointless since I can't really crit the things except vs deflection, and forbidden fist already interrupts on hit. 

I'm stuck . I assumed since Lockdown makes the enemy untargetable this would mean the other ooze couldn't merge with it but I'm not sure this is the case, I believe on my last playthrough they merged while one was still in the stasis field...

-------

Also stuck on changeling fight with transcendent. I've worked at it from two paths

1) start invisible + stealthed in RTWP, try to lure one combatant to left side of screen, make vela afraid, kill enemy, then circle around and kill others from right. This is easy with cantor because of the skeletons but with transcendent my only way to kite the baddies appears to be to stand at the edge of their detection radius until my stealth goes red. I have 24 stealth but I'm still only to pull a character to two points before I'm discovered.

2) start turn based with a 200+% conduit proc. It is a bit tedious to get the proc but doable, and in turn based it lasts 3 rounds. I lose a round clicking on the memory pool, and I lose 2 rounds while the slaying face gives his speech, leaving me with just the current round. Occasionally I can one-shot a character (3 attacks technically, but in one round) but the golem thing's accuracy isn't great so this usually doesn't happen. If I could extend conduit duration to 4 rounds, then I'd have an extra round and could easily kill the monk or ranger. But...even with strand of favor, ooblit, and cabalist's gambeson equipped when I proc obfuscation it is 3 rounds or 17.3s in RTWP. Not sure the point where I get an extra round is. My intellect with items, boons and such is 20 (base 13). If I go any higher my forbidden fist attacks build up too much curse. If I could proc Acute before casting conduit, that might do it. Only way I can think of to do this is with the ring Whispers From The Depths, which gives 8s Acute 30% on kill (modified this is 17.3s). Kind of tedious, I'd have to start a fight near the memory pool, get the last enemy to nearish death, then summon things and kill them until I proc it, either using dichotomous soul or charm of bones. I'm still not sure that would be enough to get the extra round. I could also start a fight and proc conduit near the end with turning wheel at 10 wounds. You lose some time ending the fight so not sure if this would work either. Maybe if I cast great maelstrom to simultaneously strike myself and the last enemy...

Very tedious and technical, either way. I'm wondering if there isn't a simpler way like a keyboard combination to skip the slaying face's speech and the memory pool transition, but I see nothing like that in the controls and other settings. 

I should give up because this is probably impossible with this build, but that's the challenge, right?

---

It has occurred to me I can use wit of death's herald to proc acute / brilliant, though I don't have it, console creation of the character removed it. I can re-add the ability using addability player[tab] wit_of_deaths_herald but it is just tier 1. If I add the ability again it is tier 1. I don't know how to upgrade it...

I guess I can simulate acute with hot razor skewers +1 power level + smart. 

So I figured out with ooblit, strand of favor, cabalist's gambeson, and effigy's resentment zahua, you need a modified INT of 33 to get to 2 rounds of conduit in turn based. For me this was proccing acute + 7 (konstanten, SOF, kuaru's prize, alchemic wits, berath's blessing) and ripple sponge (and/or cauldron shard, old valia). This required my base INT be 18, or at the very very most 16, which is still too high for a forbidden fist build. Possibly I could do this with turning wheel maxed at end of combat.

Anyway I suspect a lot of builds can do this fight with high INT and proccing conduit, which makes it fairly easy to zerg a bad guy since you do a bit over triple damage. Still sort of random whether they go after Vela. Seems to happen mostly if her position isn't perfect or you get hit with a skyward kick, so monk is top zerg priority.

Edited March 27, 2023 by Shai Hulud

[Kaylon]

10 hours ago, Shai Hulud said:

I've been testing the cantor build some more. Its main weakness is relatively low accuracy and no obvious way to deal with Hauani O Whe. I've managed to get one of the gigantic oozes down to near death a couple times but just barely, and the fight is so frustrating to practice since solo it takes over half an hour to get through the first stage.

Cantor should be able to deal with Hauani the same way as a herald. 

You can also try to deal with the merge using Mechanical Marvel (with Sure Handed it should be easy enough to keep the oozes interrupted with modal activated) and later with scrolls of Tornado.

[Shai Hulud]

1 hour ago, Kaylon said:

Cantor should be able to deal with Hauani the same way as a herald. 

You can also try to deal with the merge using Mechanical Marvel (with Sure Handed it should be easy enough to keep the oozes interrupted with modal activated) and later with scrolls of Tornado.

How does a herald defeat HOW? Brand Enemy + Marux Amanth? I haven't played paladins much. But I'm not coming up with any ideas where the paladin part is relevant. My dexterity as a FF cantor is very low. Even with Sure-Handed Ila I don't think I can keep them interrupted with Mechanical Marvel, but, maybe...unfortunately Mechanical Marvel requires resting for The Survivor path, and backtracking to whatever fetch quest. Trying to avoid resting. Big stacks of tornado may be promising. 

I figured out the changeling's dance with the transcendent. Took me some thought and a lot of tries to get where I can do it consistently without losing Vela. This should work for any class capable of soloing the encounter.

1. In the Pool of Memories room, stack some alchemy gear and use Thief's Putty. Stealth should be 20. Equip +beneficial effect and +INT gear and attack Vela with The Eye of Wael until you proc Obfuscation. Go stealth, heal Vela, enter the fight, going through the screens as rapidly as possible, which should leave you with just enough time to flee if you have at least 13 intelligence. 
2. Kite the fighter to the southwest end of the screen and kill him. This is actually quite tedious and difficult. My stealth was 29 with the training, thief's putty, luminous adra potion and hylea's bounty. And Kaz. And dissident background. This is high as it can get (I think) for non-stealth classes. Since you can't use items, the only way to kite is to skirt the edge of the stealth detection zone. You want to be outside the sight cone and just in the hearing circle. When the fighter starts approaching you, run perpendicular to his movement direction, i.e. across the sight cone, minimizing stealth lost. You want to end up just outside the hearing circle and sight cone, on the side the fighter will turn when he turns around. He usually turns clockwise, at least until he is a few reps from the center, then it is hard to tell. You will briefly enter his sight cone when he turns but he continues back a couple steps before turning around with the detection icon. This time is useful for losing stealth detection buildup. Eventually the fighter will turn counterclockwise, and if he does this and you're on the wrong side you have to chase him back a bit to get him to come back. After 6 to 8 repetitions he should be in the correct position where you can attack him. The cipher and monk are also easy to kite (easier, actually) but they are more dangerous to Vela. The cipher sometimes clubs her or when near death runs away to cast spells on the fighter. The monk summons dichotomous spirits who can quickly murder Vela. The fighter just attacks you as long as you stay engaged. But you have to be at the very southwest of the room, maybe like 2 or 3 meters away max, or the cipher spots you and everyone comes.  
3. After fighter is dead, Vela is frozen in fear in hopefully the far southwest of the map. You can approach the rest of the group from the northeast or northwest. If you approach too far northeast the cipher may run off towards Vela, so I approached from the northwest, then once I saw they were all attacking me, ran to the far northeast of the screen.
4. From here, finish the fight as usual. In this case, kill the monk, then cipher, then wolf, then ranger, then rogue if he is still alive. 

This is the most tedious and technical challenge I've encountered but it is not in fact impossible

I am fairly confident my transcendent can solo all the content without rest (except at Ukaizo). Have tested SSS, all megabosses, Concelhaut, Nemnok, The Messenger, cave grub, and the sea dragon and fire dragon. Have not tested FS content or fought lich dragon a second time, nor the Beast of Winter, but I don't recall these being too challenging compared to the likes of Dorudugan or Hauani O Whe, so...should be fine. 

[Kaylon]

 

[Shai Hulud]

3 hours ago, Kaylon said:

 

Didn't realize you could block them like this. I tried before but they managed a merge. I may not have had them far enough apart when the merge attempt started. Also I think I had the wurms not the instruments of death, and the wurms can't engage.

I'm surprised you are able to stay alive with nothing but ancient memory and her courage thick as steel. In my memory HOW hits like a truck. Then again I've played with Abydon so much any fight where your weapons and armor don't break seems like cheating.