My Evaluation of the SC Classes [So far (CP + BPM)]

[patronkus]

After coming back to the game and playing ~100 hours in the past 2 weeks, I have a few thoughts relating to the classes and would like to write them out (mainly for my own clarifications). In those 100 hours I have only played SC characters in a 5 man party, the reason for this is just to avoid the choice paralysis of multiclassing. Going into the actual class evaluations, I had the following takeaways (consider I did not test every combo, every subclass or even some classes extensively). I played on Upscaled (All) POTD btw.

 

TLDR Tier List:

Top Tier: Barbarian, Monk, Cipher, Priest, Wizard

Mid Tier: Druid, Chanter, Rogue, Paladin

Low Tier: Ranger (could be good but I hate pet classes), Fighter

 

Barbarian:
Incredible tanking option and one of the 2 melee characters I consider bringing. Barbarian has lots of advantages, it's tough, has lots of damage, can cause some decent afflictions and has good longevity by recovering resources/converting healing to damage. Barbarian is an excellent tank because of it's durability and high HP. Instead of being an avoidance tank (knocking Hits/Crits down to Grazes/Hits or avoiding them entirely with high defences) Barb has tons of HP and damage reduction/offset. With Savage Defiance (I think thats the name), Unflinching, Thick Skinned and some heavy armor, your Barb can take a ton of hits and even better, hit as good as they get hit. Barbaric Smash is fantastic for damage, the shout trees are very good for applying some low tier afflictions but have nice return (-MIG for incoming damage and -RES for lowered enemy PL_ through abilities like Spirit Frenzy or the Shouts. At high level Barbaric Retalliation, Blood Surge and Driving Roar or Dazing Shout are just incredibly strong. Barbaric Retalliation is hilariously powerful for tanking as your Barb will begin clearing the chaff by itself. Dazing Shout reduces enemy PEN making your Barb even tankier and Driving Roar with Blood Thirst is just insane for damage. What's more is that your Barb can position amazingly for tanking with Leap. Leap into a spot with your back to the wall, wait for everything to clump up while the rest of your party is waiting in stealth either casting long cast time spells like summons or big blasts or buffing. IMO Barb is the clear tanking option because it does a good enough job of staying alive and inflicts the best status effect in the game, death, on enemies the fastest.

Chanter:

Chanter has a big benefit of renewing resources but it's at the cost of those resources coming pretty slowly. I don't really think Chanter is super worth bringing because they are just too slow. While your Barb is clearing fights singlehandedly by Blood Thirst Barb Smashing through everyone, your Chanter is still casting their first spell. The problem with chanter isn't the abilities, they are quite potent including the best Summons and potent blasts like Eld Nary but they just take forever to get off. There is Sasha Singing Scimitar which helps but I still found it not exactly worth the investment of a party slot. I know Skald and Troubador can get invocations faster but it just wasn't enough to get the pacing right IMO. To me Chanter is just too slow for party play, obviously it's incredible with Solo.

Cipher: 

Incredible class with so many options it's crazy. You can do so much with Cipher it'd be hard for them to be bad. I tried an Ascendant first which was great but I geared them for damage which was far eclipsed by other classes (like Barb). The Cipher would Ascend and go into spamming Amp Wave for big damage and knockdowns. The damage was fine, the CC was nice but it didn't pump as hard as I hoped even with all the gear investment. What I then tried was Beguiler and found the real power of Cipher. A beguiler is just amazing, they have super long range spells to keep safe in the backline, amazing ACC with all the Cipher passives to boosting VS Will and devastating afflictions they can apply. You Beguiler can apply basically every affliction singlehandedly and have focus to spare. It's fantastic, you can have chain Paralyse, Sicken, Frighten, Dazed, Dominate, Confused etc and all the while your Cipher never has to attack with their weapon as their spells fuel more spells in an incredible loop. They won't do any damage but who cares when half the enemies are Paralysed, 2 are Dominated and the rest are Frightened. Incredible class with amazing versatility.

Druid:

To me Druid underperformed sadly. I tried Teheku for Watershaper and while the Foe Only spells are nice, the damage they offer isn't that great and while nice to just AFK and automate his spells, you might as well just bring a Wizard and be a bit attentive to your targetting. I tried Animist as well mainly yo get access to Plague of Insects but was bit dissapointed. Even stacking PL with Lance of the Midwood Stag and Spider Silk Robes, my Druids damage was lower than Vatnirs by quite a margin. Moreover, the high investment in Poison is pretty rough given many enemies are Poison immune making spells like Venombloom and Plague of Insects useless. Furthermore the Druid spells I was investing in were gave big return over a long time but I found most enemies didn't last long enough to cash in that return. The healing was nice but I just didn't find the Druid blasting like I wanted. Moreover some of the Druid PLs are really subpar, mostly the high level ones like 6/7/8/9. While there are good spells like Venombloom and Great Maelstrom the rest are pretty mid and while Great Maelstrom is OP it's super boring so I just didn't abuse it. I'm sure if I abused Maelstrom it would've been way better (maybe gone Fury, Chromoprismatic Staff, Deltro Cage etc) but IMO it's just a bit boring.

Fighter:

Not a class I really used a lot but on paper it just looks sub par. I would've used it as a tank but it doesn't offer much besides being an invincible meat wall. Your enemies will die from old age before they kill the fighter sure but your fighter won't make much progress towards killing them either. In contrast to the Barb, while the Fighters survivability is significantly better, it doesn't do anything with that survivability. I know there is some Overbearing Guard stuff you can do with big engagement keeping enemies on the Fighter but unlike POE 1, Prone is not a condition that can be extended in duration it just happens and is over. I did not see much reason to SC fighter either and thought it is way more appealing as an MC.

Monk:
Unsurprisingly an amazing class. First run I went with a Monk watcher and good god this class is insane. I don't think I need to say too much here, it's common knowledge Monk is powerful but when I discovered Grave Calling + Monk it was just stupid. Your Monk is applying Weaken and Paralyse on hit, can Stun, has infintie summons, tons of inspirations, renewable resources etc etc. Amazing class, the other melee alongside Barb I'd consider being top of their class.

Paladin:

To me Paladin was much like Beguiler as the unseen but impactful hand. The paladin brings Inspirations for the party, healing and damage reduction. I was a bit dissapointed in Sacred Immo tbh, it doesn't do near as much damage as in POE 1 and the self Raw damage is crazy high. Also they tend to use a ton of Zeal if you want to give out Exhortations to everyone and still use some abilities, you'll be 5 or 6 Zeal down out the gate and that leaves very little for the Paladin to do after their Zeal is expended. I know you can use Chanter skellies to recover Zeal but IMO those 2 classes even together aren't exactly worth bringing. Maybe instead of Sword and Board you go Dual Wield with some Sabres for more damage with FoD and to like White Flames for healing as well but not sure. As it was, Paladin didn't underperform but didn't outstand either.

Priest:

Incredibly versatile class that can do a bit of everything. Symbols solo fights, PL 9 is fantastic for them, Minor Avatar is super strong, even nerfed SoT is amazing etc etc. I used Vatnir and a Wael priest and both were amazing. Vatnir does so much damage with his Symbol, Freezing Pillar and Call of Rymrgand it's absurd. His Incarnate is also super strong and he still gets all the great priest spells like Hand of Wael and Woe to circumvent Freeze DR. Wael Priest brought great afflictions with Confusion and Gaze of the Adragan and showed me how insane Blessing of Wael is. An aura that can apply -10 INT, PER and RES all at once for an insane reduction in enemy defences. Also funny if Combo'd with Efforts Haemorraging to apply Sickened and Hobbled too. Phenomenal class IMO that brings whatever you want/need it to.

Ranger:
I just cannot stand pet classes I am sorry so I did not play much Ranger enough to comment on it.

Rogue:

Tried a Gambit Rogue out and it was fine I suppose. The damage wasn't that high and got inconsistent Guile Recovery. I think Trickster is the way to go but I've yet to try it out.

Wizard:

Amazing class any way you slice it. I tried out both Fassina and a Blood Mage to great effect. Fassina with Blackbow is incredible. Not much damage but so much Terrify it's so much CC enemies can't do much to retalliate. If the Blackbow doesn't work she still had a full reportoire of spells including Freezing Pillar, Combusting Wounds, Chill Fog, Corrosive Skin etc etc. Blood Mage is OP as everyone knows so not much to comment on there. Wizard is just super powerful in this game, you can get comparable spellcasts to POE 1 with Grimoire of Vaporous Wizardry and Rekvu Helm but it's Per Encounter which is hilarious. Not much will be left standing after your wizard has has dumped their spellbook onto the enemies, including allies which is the biggest thing to worry about. 

[Elric Galad]

Well, I would add some concerns about your ranking, focused on BPM specific features.

 

Ranger is indeed a pet class (or at least summoner) so if you don't like it... Ranger class is weird because it's MC compatible abilities don't pack that much punch. So better to use them for special trick such as dispell shot. But with BPM, tier 8 and 9 offer more serious stuff, such as Permanent Enfeebled, general goodness buff through Shadowing Beyond, interrupt on all Crit (with stellar accuracy)... I don't think the class as a whole is week but until then, it can feel a bit lacking.

 

Weird to speak about SC Fighter without mentioning Clear Out and it's upgrades that can really be fun with some weapons (Willbreaker for example). Also BPM SC Fighter is practically a ressource regenerating class. Finally, you will have some support through either Armor breaking Sundering Blow or AoE Acute from Inspired Strike. Inspired Strike and upgraded Clear Out should be your primary bread and butter as a SC Fighter.

 

Druid does have good spells with BPM at tier 6+, but there is indeed something weird in their design as they suddenly stop being a pure flashy boom boom AoE damages dealer to become a support and combo class. They have their best Summons at these level, resurrection (always useful backup) and Wildstrike Frenzy+ Entropy or Avenging Storm to deal stupid amount of auto attack damages.

[patronkus]

14 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Well, I would add some concerns about your ranking, focused on BPM specific features.

 

Ranger is indeed a pet class (or at least summoner) so if you don't like it... Ranger class is weird because it's MC compatible abilities don't pack that much punch. So better to use them for special trick such as dispell shot. But with BPM, tier 8 and 9 offer more serious stuff, such as Permanent Enfeebled, general goodness buff through Shadowing Beyond, interrupt on all Crit (with stellar accuracy)... I don't think the class as a whole is week but until then, it can feel a bit lacking.

 

Weird to speak about SC Fighter without mentioning Clear Out and it's upgrades that can really be fun with some weapons (Willbreaker for example). Also BPM SC Fighter is practically a ressource regenerating class. Finally, you will have some support through either Armor breaking Sundering Blow or AoE Acute from Inspired Strike. Inspired Strike and upgraded Clear Out should be your primary bread and butter as a SC Fighter.

 

Druid does have good spells with BPM at tier 6+, but there is indeed something weird in their design as they suddenly stop being a pure flashy boom boom AoE damages dealer to become a support and combo class. They have their best Summons at these level, resurrection (always useful backup) and Wildstrike Frenzy+ Entropy or Avenging Storm to deal stupid amount of auto attack damages.

Reason I don't mention Clear Out is because Barb Retalliation or Heart of Fury offers similar effects. The obvious counterargument is Clear Out comes available much earlier though which is valuable.

I suppose something that puts me off Druid at the higher PL is the good stuff is summons which I generally avoid because it can cause performance issues for me. I know the Summons can be powerful and resseruction is handy but they are 2 things I personally avoid when I play. Summons for the performance issue and usually I will just reload if someone dies because to me it means I ****ed up (even if the fight is still going to be a win).

[Elric Galad]

5 hours ago, patronkus said:

Reason I don't mention Clear Out is because Barb Retalliation or Heart of Fury offers similar effects. The obvious counterargument is Clear Out comes available much earlier though which is valuable.

The real reason why Clear Out shines is that the AoE is bigger (after the upgrade), that it is a bit of a Crowd Control effect and is only 2 ressouces instead of 3 for BPM HoF.

In a nutshell, Clear Out tends to be spammable while Heart of Fury is kind of situational power spike (it deals additional damages/Accuracy/PEN, is a Full Attack).

Clear Out + Morningstar is a really great combo.

[Boeroer]

Also Clear Out hits the initial target twice which makes it even pretty useful against single targets. The circular AoE of Clean Sweep is bigger than HoF's. Clear the Path has a broad, long line as AoE (del. longer than the 5m the wiki notes) which is not affected by INT - so you can use that with a dumb fighter and not lose AoE size. 

Clear Out + Morning Star is nice, but I don't like that Clear Out itself already targets fortitude. So you have to overcome fortitude in order to lower fotitude. In that regard HoF is better because it targets Deflection (or Fortitude if it's lower with Brute Force). 

[Constentin Lévine]

Also for Clear Out, even if you miss with the first Fortitude roll, the AoE attack is launched. So morning Star is not optimale :

the attack is a Primary attack using a melee weapon only for the first hit (fortitude). The AoE is also a Primary Attack but using the first weapon slot (no matter the weapon range). 

Here, a Ranger-Fighter with Xefa Empirical Explication - Frostfall (and avenging storm) on a Clear Out (first roll with melee miss because Out of Range):

[masterty66]

On 10/9/2022 at 12:32 PM, Constentin Lévine said:

Also for Clear Out, even if you miss with the first Fortitude roll, the AoE attack is launched. So morning Star is not optimale :

the attack is a Primary attack using a melee weapon only for the first hit (fortitude). The AoE is also a Primary Attack but using the first weapon slot (no matter the weapon range). 

Here, a Ranger-Fighter with Xefa Empirical Explication - Frostfall (and avenging storm) on a Clear Out (first roll with melee miss because Out of Range):

Lol I hadn't even thought of using Clear Out with a ranged weapon. That's pretty funny. And potentially pretty decent because of high Fighter accuracy.