SC Watershaper, Animist or Fury? (CP + BPM)

[patronkus]

Of the Druid subclasses, these feel like the real standouts to me. Animist gets it all, which is really nice, you can use Plague of Insects, Infestation of Maggots, Returning/Relentless Storm, Moons Light, Moonwell etc etc. You can all the nice things with no benefits but getting all the sauce feels good enough to me.

Watershaper gets a list of unique spells that are also cast uniquely. While Teheku is the only one who can access it and he doesn't have the best stats, for the sake of this exercise lets ignore Tehekus stat shortcomings. You lose Fire and Beast spells in exchange for these frost/water spells. The loss of some of those Beast spells hurts a lot, notably Insect Swarm and Plague of Insects and Fire is kinda whatever. You gain however, Foe Only Chill Fog (!) and Foe Only Freezing Pillar (!) among others but those really stand out.

Fury loses Rejuvanation spells to empower Element spells. This empowerment is in the form of Range and PEN, 2 very handy boosts. You do lose a lot though in the form of Natures Balm for Robust, Moonwell, Moons Light etc. 

Overall, all 3 have merits and all 3 have weak points. Watershapers loss of Plague of Insects could not be as big of a deal due to it being Poison and some foes being Poison immune. The prevalance of this Poison immunity would be the deciding factor on this one. Fury penalty of losing Rejuvanation really blows, you lose a lot of healing which is something the druid is very good at in exchange for more blasting. This kinda comes down to your comp IMO, do you have a tank that negates a lot of damage like a Figher through misses/grazes or a tank like a Barb who is a damage sponge at makes great use of the healing. It does still hurt to lose those heals in pinch situations where they can come in super clutch. Animist gains no unique bonuses unfortunately and just does it all which for spellcasters in my mind is a big boon. As opposed to your martial types who do one thing very well your spellcasters can benefit a lot from versatility, for instance circumventing high AR through swapping damage types as opposed to just powering through it through abilities.

For me, I just can't pick whats best so IMO Animist is go to but man those Watershaper spells are so appealing.

[Elric Galad]

In general, the first question is indeed your party comp. Do you have other healers (I like to have 2-3 healers, Paladin or Priest are good healer, Cipher and Chanter can help a bit) ? Do you have other characters with resurrection abilities (I like to have 2, but scrolls can help if you have only one) ?

If you plan to use lots of DoT, you'll have big INT and MIG, which is also sweet for Healing over Time. Druid healing is so sweet that I wouldn't pick Fury unless my party is already saturated with healers (but in this case, Fury is quite good in their role).

BPM made a lots of change to Spiritshift. Shark hits for more damage, Stormblight has some uniquely fun features and Animist has choice between a lots of forms (Cat is less of a must pick). As SC Druid, you may want to profit from Wildstrike Frenzy. Stag Spiritshift + Entropy leads to double AoE on Crit, this can hurt a lot.

Summon Blights are much better since I remove the randomness (beware the change is in the non-buff package).

Freezing Pillar is sweet, but Maelstorm is just so broken that it's hard not to use it.

BPM Wildstrike allows bonus PL for the corresponding element. It is not better that what you get from weapons, but it allows specializing in 2 elements : picking Fire weapons with Axe of Magran and+2  Decay/Acid PL = from Wildstrike can be quite versatile. Example : Corrode Wildstrike Stag form + Entropy.

I would say that because of Spiritshift rebalance and Wildstrike bonus PL to the corresponding element, even if you go Animist, you will still be able to personalize your build quite a bit.

 

Note that you can also go Shifter. Shifter is a full spellcaster, don't think too much about the melee side. It helps but is just an additional feature. With the Form rebalance, it adds another layer of versatility.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Elric Galad

[thelee]

animist is nice, but imo while it's not in your consideration but lifegiver really doesn't give up that much (note: i haven't played with elric's blight buff, so i honestly can't speak to how much of a boost it might have been). i think lashing vine and possibly fire stag are the main ones i miss on a lifegiver, and that's only if you SC it. so personally it seems like lifegiver is the better "i don't know what to do they all sound great" selection. tekehu is very nice (i also like his foe-friendly "water" fireball and watery double) but in practice the damage diversity loss might be a bigger deal than you think (at least on PotD), so it's not exactly a "free lunch" as he may initially seem. (though of course in fights where his damage type can't shine as well, he's still an excellent healer)

i find animist more useful for multiclasses, because they have a nice diverse selection of free spells that saves my skill points, without coming with downsides i might not want.

[masterty66]

Shifter gets tremendous free spells as well. Imo it should still serve primarily as a caster too, as Jayd mentions in his guide. A Shifter (SC or MC) can throw out all the usual powerful Druid spells and then when it's finished shift in and start contributing in melee. Or it can shift to Bear at will to be tankier if pressed.

Being unable to cast while shifted is the only major disadvantage but you can just shift back out after you're safe and I really like the free spells it gets.

Worth consideration anyways. I think most people hear the kit name and think of it is a melee type Druid but that's not the case and imo like all Druids it should still function as a caster first and foremost, and it excels at that with its awesome free spells. 

[dgray62]

I agree, Shifter does get the best free spell selection IMO. But Lifegiver's selection is great too, as I would be inclined to pick most of the free spells it gets anyway.

[Elric Galad]

I personally like Animist spell selection the most. You really have a bit of everything But shifter selection best part is getting Pollen Patch on Tier 9, so you can pick Maelstrom and Prestige and still have some room for something else.

Granted that "something else" is pretty meh without BPM.

[thelee]

18 hours ago, dgray62 said:

I agree, Shifter does get the best free spell selection IMO.

eh, i think it's a matter of taste (or role). Sunbeam at lvl 1 is a great free pickup, you get some healing (moon's light at 2), arguably the best tier 3 druid spell (returning storm), and one of the druid's best summons (lashing vine). shifter doesn't quite hit the same diversity of options for me.

also in some (many) of my multiclasses, not being able to cast while shifted is a major drawback, since I heavily use cat's action speed ability to dump spells. shifter is definitely powerful for sure, just doesn't fit in the same niche where i'd pick animist.

[Elric Galad]

It is often disregarded that Lashing Vine has 14 PEN with dual damages type. To whoever asks why it is good.

Call to the Primordials give 3 oozes (2 with BPM but they scale more), they are quite good at tanking.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Elric Galad

[thelee]

lashing vine in vanilla game is (relatedly) the first generic druid summon with proper scaling. blights and even the mushrooms are mostly just varying levels of hp sponges in vanilla (don't know if your blight changes buff or scale them), whereas lashing vine might actually do some harm.

[patronkus]

6 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

It is often disregarded that Lashing Vine has 14 PEN with dual damages type. To whoever asks why it is good.

Call to the Primordials give 3 oozes (2 with BPM but they scale more), they are quite good at tanking.

Woah, I had no idea 14 Pen is pretty juiced.

[thelee]

2 hours ago, patronkus said:

Woah, I had no idea 14 Pen is pretty juiced.

i think more accurately said, it has 10 PEN and gets up to legendary scaling for +4 PEN. so that 14 PEN also comes with huge +acc, and +dmg as well

Edited October 7, 2022 by thelee

[Elric Galad]

6 hours ago, thelee said:

lashing vine in vanilla game is (relatedly) the first generic druid summon with proper scaling. blights and even the mushrooms are mostly just varying levels of hp sponges in vanilla (don't know if your blight changes buff or scale them), whereas lashing vine might actually do some harm.

BPM Druid summons were basically balanced around Lashing Vine (the one that stayed untouched). All were added weapons scaling to legendary (Fire Stag and Aspect of Galawain already had it, but they were buffed in different fashion, although fire stag BDD cheese doesn't work anymore).

Call to the Primordial had to be nerfed a bit not to be broken with the scaling.

Blight Summon were removed their randomness (Minor summon storm, medium fire, major ice) so you can really plan what to do with them.

 

Still, none of them got up to 14 PEN attacks with dual type