Swift Flurry Divine weapons

[Raven Darkholme]

14 minutes ago, Constentin Lévine said:

I already know the trick but with imported sup. scordeo (I try different think about stackable effects). With two equipped Scordeo' Edge, you can get two different effects (only different upgrade can stack, the second same weapon dont trigger a same effect at all). With two Scordeo's Edge n different weapon set, you can stack a same effect, they are not ilsted together in the list.This is also true for some debuffs, like Artezzo's cane, dualwielded with Humble and Haughty, or Retentless (Willbreaker) in two weapon slot (this is why that work with phantoms).

 

About Dominated, that dont work at all with Debonaire. 

 

I dont know why the game didnt crash, but for sure with Mohora in offhand the game is surest.

 

 

The funny thing is I didn't have a single crash all game even before using Mohora (started out with Saru-Sichr).

That being said I didn't have Scordeos for too long with Saru, since after dragon I immediately rushed Kraken for Mohora.

[Constentin Lévine]

Maybe, like sais @Boeroer, that depend of our game installation : for mine I'm using, for testing purpose, the Unity Console for PoE2, and my game crash easily when another program is running (like Steam, so I launch the game without it). Maybe that is the reason for my game tendancy to dont tolerate some too high chain of calculation.

[Raven Darkholme]

4 minutes ago, Constentin Lévine said:

Maybe, like sais @Boeroer, that depend of our game installation : for mine I'm using, for testing purpose, the Unity Console for PoE2, and my game crash easily when another program is running (like Steam, so I launch the game without it). Maybe that is the reason for my game tendancy to dont tolerate some too high chain of calculation.

Yeah unity kept bugging and needing reinstallation back in the day, so eventually I just uninstalled it.

I also have this "gaming app" from my pc brand which clears the ram whenever i start up any game, for deadfire it usually clears between 800 mb and sometimes even 4 gig, so the ram is almost exclusively used for whatever game I'm running.

I'm also running the game borderless windowed with the borderless gaming app, which reduces performance demands for most games.

[dgray62]

This game is so mysterious. It seems strange that Red Flag would proc with a full attack ability like WotW but not FoD. Guess I'll go back to my Transcendent, with MT in the offhand since I have a suboptimal, crash prone set up. Will probably ultimately go for Seeker's Fang in the main hand, with other weapons, like Magister's Cudgel, occupying that spot until I get to SSS.

[Raven Darkholme]

4 minutes ago, dgray62 said:

This game is so mysterious. It seems strange that Red Flag would proc with a full attack ability like WotW but not FoD. Guess I'll go back to my Transcendent, with MT in the offhand since I have a suboptimal, crash prone set up. Will probably ultimately go for Seeker's Fang in the main hand, with other weapons, like Magister's Cudgel, occupying that spot until I get to SSS.

Keep in mind the loop only procs with WotW, when theres more than one enemy to hit.

Note how at the start i wotwed in just to cover distance and proc invis, it only got a couple hits and stopped, then a basic attack instakilled hauani, and as soon as there was two of them wotw started working "properly".

There might be other conditionals like this for other abilities like FoD.

[Constentin Lévine]

28 minutes ago, dgray62 said:

This game is so mysterious. It seems strange that Red Flag would proc with a full attack ability like WotW but not FoD.

Oh sorry I used wrong words ! Red Flag proc on FoD, but simply dont benefit to the acc bonus from the ability. 

23 minutes ago, Raven Darkholme said:

Note how at the start i wotwed

[Boeroer]

With a ranged weapon in the main hand you can't produce SF/HBD-chains - maybe that helps with preventing crahes, too.

---

Lol for Dire Talon with "Wurm Command" in the main hand and Mohora Tanga in the offhand. It gets crowded...  

[Boeroer]

Should Mercy Strike on Stalker's Patience in the main hand not almost guarantee 0 recovery when using Mohara Tanga in the main hand?

[Constentin Lévine]

3 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Should Mercy Strike on Stalker's Patience in the main hand not almost guarantee 0 recovery when using Mohara Tanga in the main hand?

I dont think so : Mercy Strike allow 0recovery on Stalker's Patience crit (not on Red Flying or Mohora chain), and even used on main hand, SF attacks have already no recovery (this enchantment skip the current recovery).

Even Scordeo's Edge with Double Strike or Tempest are useless because their effect will fade by an Red Flying-SF attack (these effect have a duration and are clerared on graze hit or crit). Only Blade Cascade can be useful when Scordeo's Edge is in main hand.

[dgray62]

Would crit kills triggered by MT/Red Flag in the offhand trigger an Extinction Event AOE from Sungrazer in the main hand?

[Constentin Lévine]

9 minutes ago, dgray62 said:

Would crit kills triggered by MT/Red Flag in the offhand trigger an Extinction Event AOE from Sungrazer in the main hand?

No, but chain crit with Red Flag can trigger a chain with Sungrazer that can trigger Meteoric many time, and Extinction eventually if Sungrazer or Meteoric kill with a crit. 

So while confused, with some skelies around, that can be mad maybe!

Also I will try with a scepter (with the modal) in main hand, to see what can happen.

Edited October 22, 2022 by Constentin Lévine

[dgray62]

59 minutes ago, Constentin Lévine said:

No, but chain crit with Red Flag can trigger a chain with Sungrazer that can trigger Meteoric many time, and Extinction eventually if Sungrazer or Meteoric kill with a crit.

So Sungrazer needs to proc the crit kill. Thanks!

[Constentin Lévine]

On-kill effects that work with both equipped weapons are Dispersed Suffering (Frostfall) and Sickening to Watch/ Terrifying to Face (The Best Defense) ! 

[Constentin Lévine]

Woh I just discovered something that match perfectely with Mohora & Swift Flurry :

Here, my monk have empowered a random weapon ability (I say random because that work clearly with everyone). Because of Mohora, there was a lot of Swift Flurry and HbD proc. And as you can see, every SF/HbD proc are also Empowered! Here, there was 29 Least Unstable Coil proc. 

Of course, SF/HbD dont affect the target with the ability effect, and Red Flag neither, but SF/HbD scale with PL.

I will make a separated post with a link towards this topic.

[dgray62]

What was the other weapon you were wielding here, aside from Mohora?

[Constentin Lévine]

36 minutes ago, dgray62 said:

What was the other weapon you were wielding here, aside from Mohora?

Kahua Hozi I think, or only Mohora, actually I was investigate about the potential multiple proc of ability effects (but that doesnt work). Mohora (+ whatever else) is nice on a SF/Confounding Blow by the way, removing deflection at max (of the ability potential) in one attack!

[Boeroer]

By the way: Red Flag Flying causes stacks of Resonant Touch, too. I had over 300 stacks on some enemies sometimes from doing one Whispers of the Wind. This would kill Megabosses in one shot - but he good thing is that Red Flag Flying itself doesn't harm them much - so they drop from full health to zero only by triggering Resonant Touch. So no special "oops I'm bloodied, time to do something nasty" phase.  

[masterty66]

21 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

By the way: Red Flag Flying causes stacks of Resonant Touch, too. I had over 300 stacks on some enemies sometimes from doing one Whispers of the Wind. This would kill Megabosses in one shot - but he good thing is that Red Flag Flying itself doesn't harm them much - so they drop from full health to zero only by triggering Resonant Touch. So no special "oops I'm bloodied, time to do something nasty" phase.  

I noticed this using it on Xoti my last run. I think CP limits it to 25 stacks/enemy before you have to release it though, so sadly didn't see any huge spikes like that. But was still pretty devastating.

Edited October 22, 2022 by masterty66

[Constentin Lévine]

I made some new try :

• With the Belt of Magran's Chosen, the battlefield become very ... hostile , really useful to use WotW but also :
• Mob Stance, each solo target die and immediatly another nearby enemy die, and then another one etc... With on top Clear Out with, in main hand, Mohora, Fighter-Monk is also very strong for mass-murder. 

I'm going to try with the CP Backstab (flat raw damage instead of %damage), and with Carnage but without the CP fix (in vanilla, attack from offhand proc a carnage from main hand)

Edit : even under Vanishing Strike effect, the raw damage fro Backstab doesnt work on Red Flag proc. Only the Mohora attack trigger vanilla Carnage on offhand. 

Edited October 22, 2022 by Constentin Lévine

[kaziel]

On 9/22/2022 at 4:05 PM, Boeroer said:

Since you cannot stack conversion to 100% but can stack accuracy so that 100% of rolls become crits I think bonus ACC is preferrable to bonus conversion.

Mob cleaning is easy if you only need one strike to kill each mob member...  Also: Raised Torment?

Do you know if Torment's Reach and Raised Torment count as "Melee Weapon Critical Hits have a 33% chance to trigger another strike" from Swift Flurry?

Worried that the move counts as something other than a "weapon" strike as animation-wise; it's a kick. 

[Boeroer]

10 hours ago, kaziel said:

Do you know if Torment's Reach and Raised Torment count as "Melee Weapon Critical Hits have a 33% chance to trigger another strike" from Swift Flurry?

Worried that the move counts as something other than a "weapon" strike as animation-wise; it's a kick. 

The animation doesn't really matter in this case - it's mostly cosmetic (except when we look at attack speeds). Torment's Reach - despite looking like a kick - does use your main hand weapon. Stuff like Skyward Kick is also animated like it was done with your foot but uses your weapon anyway. On the other hand Forbidden Fist looks like it is done with your fist (which is a weapon) but it doesn't use your actual fist, but I digress... 

With Swift Flurry/HBD the only thing that matters is whether the attack and damage roll - under the hood, in game logic - are done with a melee weapon (fists count as weapons, too) or not.

With Torment's Reach and most other attack abilites this is rel. easy to check on the tooltip of the ability in the action bar or even better in the combat log (where you can rel. easily deduce which weapon or other damage effect was used by the damage type and other infos around the rolls). There are some abilities that are more complicated to figure out, but fortunately Torment's Reach is relatively straightforward: it is a melee weapon attack, executed with your active main hand weapon (called "primary attack").

At least that's true for the initial attack of Torment's Reach that hits the first enemy: it can trigger Swift Flurry/HBD.
Note that additional attacks from Swift Flurry or Heartbeat Drumming do not repeat the attack they originated from (in this case Torment's Reach). Instead they execute an invisible (no animation) standard attack with your main hand weapon - so it does NOT repeat Torment's Reach with all the cone AoE and so on.

Now - the cone AOE of Torment's Reach/Raised Torment that follows the initial attack roll - and which eventually hits other enemies behind the initial one - is NOT a melee weapon attack. Instead it actually is implemented as a spell-like effect. Thus it does NOT trigger Swift Flurry/HBD. You can check that in the combat log when the attack rolls for the cone were made. 

---
Addendum: for easier assessment it is good to know that every attack ability that says that it is done as "Primary Attack" or "Full Attack" (see its description) is 100% using your active weapon(s) - and if that's a melee weapon then it's a melee weapon attack for sure and will trigger Swift Flurry (see below example of Torment's Reach).

Ouf, got carried away a bit. I hope that answers your question (and was not too elaborated/confusing).  

Edited September 7, 2023 by Boeroer

[kaziel]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

The animation doesn't really matter in this case - it's mostly cosmetic (except when we look at attack speeds). Torment's Reach - despie looking like a kick - does use your main hand weapon. Stuff like Skyward Kick is also animated like it was done with your foot but uses your weapon anyway. On the other hand Forbidden Fist looks like it is done with your fist (which is a weapon) but it doesn't use your actual fist, but I digress... 

With Swift Flurry/HBD the only thing that matters is whether the attack and damage roll - under the hood, in game logic - are done with a melee weapon (fists count as weapons, too) or not.

With Torment's Reach and most other attack abilites this is rel. easy to check on the tooltip of the ability in the action bar or even better in the combat log (where you can rel. easily deduce which weapon or other damageeffect was used by the damage type and other infos around the rolls). There are some abilities that are more complicated to figure out, but fortunately Torment's Reach is relatively straightforward: it is a melee weapon attack, executed with your active main hand weapon (called "primary attack").

At least that's true for the initial attack of Torment's Reach that hits the first enemy: it can trigger Swift Flurry/HBD.
Note that additional attacks from Swift Flurry or Heartbeat Drumming do not repeat the attack they originated from (in this case Torment's Reach). Instead they execute an invisible (no animation) standard attack with your main hand weapon - so it does NOT repeat Torment's Reach with all the cone AoE and so on.

Nowr - the cone AOE of Torment's Reach/Raised Torment that follows the initial attack roll - and which eventually hits other enemies behind the initial one - is NOT a melee weapon attack. Instead it actually is implemented as a spell-like effect. Thus it does NOT trigger Swift Flurry/HBD. You can check that in the combat log when the attack rolls for the cone were made. 

---
Addendum: for easier accessment it is good to know that every attack ability that says that it is done as "Primary Attack" or "Full Attack" ( see its description) is 100% using your active weapon(s) - and if that's a melee weapon then it's a melee weapon attack for sure and will trigger Swift Flurry (see below example of Torment's Reach).

Ouf, got carried away a bit. I hope that answers your question (and was not too elaborated/confusing).  

All clear, thanks for taking the time to explain in detail. Much appreciated. 

[Constentin Lévine]

I did some tests today, about some good acc characters to use.

And if we talked about debonaire and the 100% crit conversion vs charmed (while confused), I forgot at this time that Charmed work for the red flag weapon attack (calculated before the initial roll) exactely like Entropy, sleeping and Invisibility. That mean an Assassin get a +25acc passive bonus on Assassinate attack for every Red Flag rolls, and of course SF rolls. 

Also, a nice option is to paire a Monk with a Wizard who stole and use Barbs of Condemnation and Divine Mark (for -35 deflection) before casting Citzal's Martrial Power (+20acc).

With a party, these two spells stolen greatly increase the Red Flag potential, and so give a good taste for all MC monk , and other specialized characters by the way (since Red Flag proc itself a Red Flag attack on crit, and proc Avenging Storm).

Another fun stuff (but only for trying) is to use a Confused Monk with Mohora Taga, SF and Blade Turning VS a level 20 SC barbarian with low defl., Baring Death Door and Barbaric Reliatation. The crit chain, as melee attacks chain, cause a reliatation chain against the monk, who redirect these attacks to nearby people around him. Of course, my computer is not very powerful and I just speculate on this, because red flag chain by itself can already crash him and my two Barbaric Reliatation Tempest build also crash him sometimes. 

[Boeroer]

18 hours ago, Constentin Lévine said:

The crit chain, as melee attacks chain, cause a reliatation chain against the monk, who redirect these attacks to nearby people around him.

ROFL