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About to start a solo monk run. No PotD. Maybe Veteran difficulty.

Thing is, I am not "overly" fond of the Monk subclasses. Shattered Pillar is the only subclass that seems like I would enjoy atm of the 4. I do have the community patch which gives them the 10 wound cap. 

Anyway, I was thinking of just going no subclass. I have seen builds around for all the subclasses, but can't seem to find one without. Maybe just because no one plays a monk without a subclass?? Is going Shattered Pillar with 10 wounds "better" than no subclass at all?

Suggestions for starting stats (no BB)? I assume high PER, but then beyond that, it gets murky.

Was thinking something along the lines of: MIG 18, CON 10, DEX 17, PER 18, INT 5, RES 10 (stats if I go Nature Godlike)

Suggestions on race? I want to play something other than an elf or human for a change. Was leaning towards Nature Godlike for the +PL since you consistently have the Quick inspiration.

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2 hours ago, SilverArrowsMP said:

Anyway, I was thinking of just going no subclass. I have seen builds around for all the subclasses, but can't seem to find one without. Maybe just because no one plays a monk without a subclass??

Maybe not no one, but def. not many. Monk subclasses offer substancial upsides while the downsides can be avoided/worked with.

Shattered Pillar is cool for a party imo but not too great solo, especially against single tough foes (see Dragons, Megabosses etc.). It is easier to combine healing + wound generation from getting damaged, getting missed (Imagined Pain) using Enduring Dance (while using Dichotomous Soul to take most of the enemies' hits) or hostile effect expirtion (Forbidden Fist) than dealing enough damage against those foes in order to keep the wounds flowing. It's certainly doable, but in my experience a Shattered Pillar is nicer to play if he can focus on damage-dealing in a party while others tank the enemies.

Forbidden Fist, Nalpasca and Helwalker are all well suited for solo.

Nalpasca is nice because it has great wound generation even without being hit - but you have to watch out for enemies' Arcane Dampener: it also stops the effect of drugs and sends you into a crash (which is bad). There's enough drugs in the game so you don't need to be super economical, also a single drug will usually last for a whole fight (unless Arcane Dampener hits you).

Helwalker is also nice. Not because the higher MIG will give you more damage and healing power (also good, but not superimportant when going solo) but because +10 all-stackable MIG means +20 fortitude. It's very nice to have +20 fortitude in a solo game. Most late-ish game afflictions that can disable you (=doom) will target your fortitude defense. A Helwalker with 10 wounds and Duality of Mortal Presence:CON will gain +40 to fortitude (and of course more health, damage and healing) which can be very useful.

Forbidden Fist wants as high Resolve as possible in order to keep all the hostile effects on him super short. He feeds off their expiration so the shorter the better. He doesn't want resistances or immunies (messes with his wound generation). This mechanic pairs well with a solo game - because RES also raises deflection. Thus, a Forbidden Fist naturally tends to be more tanky than the usual monk - you can push that further with a shield + dagger (+modal) setup. For example Tuotilo's Palm allows you to gain extra deflection & reflex based on wounds (interesting for any monk subclass really) while also allowing to use the dual wieldig bonus and two-weapon style. The dagger will raise deflection even further. The Forbidden Fist attack ignores the main weapon and is a primary attack only, meaning yout will not attack with the shield bash either but still retain the fast recovery of your dual weapon setup.  The Forbidden Fist attack is pretty strong and useful (enfeebling the enemies means no healing for them for example) and it will put a hostile effect aka "curse" on you (which is very short if you have maxed RES and use some fitting items -  such as the "Ring of the Solitary Wanderer" which is perfect for a solo Forbidden Fist) which will give you a wound and healing when the curse expires. It helps to not have too high INT so the curse is even shorter (higher INT = longer curse). Because of all this, a Forbidden Fist usually is quite the defensive character - but at the same time pretty great at offense, too. It is only more difficult to grasp mechanically which repels most unexperienced players (unexperienced with the Forbidden Fist at least).  

I think most of the more experienced players here would prefer a Forbidden Fist. Its special features are a bit like the devs made this subclass for solo runs. Don't think that's the intention but it feels like it.  

Stats for a solo Forbidden Fist (rough suggestion, detailed values and a few points here an there don't mean much):
MIG: o
CON: o / -
PER: ++
DEX: ++
INT: o / -
RES: +++ 

You could dump CON and use mediocre INT and later pick Tough and Iron Wheel instead of Turning Wheel in order to boost CON and health. Or you can use mediocre CON and low INT and later pick Turning Wheel to keep INT somewhat mediocre. If you like higher MIG or max PER and/or DEX you can do that, too. A little variation to your liking and enjoyment is more important than some blueprint stats. Little changes are not super impactful.

Race doesn't matter too much, but Nature Godlike isn't bad because Wellspring of Life can help you with the Power Level scaling of the Forbidden Fist attack (pushing it over the edge of the next quality tier) and other stuff - and it's on a lot because of Swift Strikes (or upgrades) as you already said - and/or Thunderous Blows. I would avoid a race with natural resistances (Coastal Aumaua, Wild Orlan, Mountain Dwarf, Wood Elf...). Unfortunately a downgraded affliction (via Resistance) causes problems with the wound generation of the Forbidden Fist. Human is good, too. The added ACC can help if things get dire.

For other subclasses these stats might look different. For example usually Monks like high INT, combined with Turning Wheel for even more INT.  

 

Edited by Boeroer
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4 hours ago, SilverArrowsMP said:

About to start a solo monk run. No PotD. Maybe Veteran difficulty.

Thing is, I am not "overly" fond of the Monk subclasses. Shattered Pillar is the only subclass that seems like I would enjoy atm of the 4. I do have the community patch which gives them the 10 wound cap. 

i'm just curious - if you're not really wild about the monk subclasses, why are you thinking about doing a monk run? 

 

and anyway, when push comes to shove, the really powerful stuff is not subclass-dependent. boeroer has a lot of useful info, but i do think that forbidden fist is quite different from the general monk experience, so even if you grok how to play it, it's ok to just say no :). if you just do end up going vanilla monk, it's not the end of the world.

n.b. i have become more of a fan of xoti's subclass for mid-high level play in recent times, if modding/consoling that in is something you're considering. with whispers of the wind, the +3 wounds upon enemy death can help you chain together non-stop uses of the ability (esp coupled with dance of death).

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Like @Boeroer, I recommend FF for a solo run for the reasons he explained. I wouldn't recommend Nalpasca unless you are using the BPM mod, since being hit by an arcane dampener can really mess you up. While manageable in a party, it's probably the end if you're going solo, at least on PotD. Helwalker solo is also doable. For Helwalker, I'd go with the same stat spread Boeroer suggests for FF. You'd still want high RES for deflection and will defenses. Since you'd get +10 to STR and INT with max wounds and turning wheel, you'll definitely be able to spare the points. IMO, however, the utility of the FF attack outweighs the benefit of the Helwalker STR bonus (which is offset by the higher vulnerability for damage). For both FF and Helwalker, you'd want an item to mitigate damage as well. For vanilla monk, you'd still want high RES and maybe higher STR as well. You wouldn't need the damage mitigation item. Generally, RES, while typically dumped for min-max DPS builds, is really your friend when playing solo.

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3 hours ago, thelee said:

and anyway, when push comes to shove, the really powerful stuff is not subclass-dependent

kinda little disagree, IMHO monk solo is about getting lv19 and "constant" WotW and for that You need wound generation, for that (if you dont wan't abuse Eders armor) helwalker or FF is better than plain monk and as for helwaker if I remember correctly I needed 22 might outside combat to have 2 WotW in a row (to take command of battlefield with Ajamuut cloak), it was all about having enough +dmg taken (from might & hel subclass, around +60%) to push DoT from Hylea talons past 8 dmg (+1 wound) on first tick, and there are other tricks like doing WotW from engagement (with parting sorrow) for discount etc, plus having 2-3 concetration points is a must have on harder fights that starts "independent"(ambush on bridge in BoW) so You will not get interrupted

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Speaking of WotW, has anyone tried using this ability wearing the Mask of the Grotto Deep in addition to the obligatory Ajamuut Cloak? I assume that the Shadow Fang raw DoT would be applied to every target hit. Would make the ability even more devastating I think.

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8 hours ago, dgray62 said:

Speaking of WotW, has anyone tried using this ability wearing the Mask of the Grotto Deep in addition to the obligatory Ajamuut Cloak? I assume that the Shadow Fang raw DoT would be applied to every target hit. Would make the ability even more devastating I think.

Yes, the dot is applied to every target but it doesn't stack and if the targets die in 2-3 WotW it doesn't make a big difference. However if you can't hit a target continuously it helps (like vs obelisks).

PS. There are many good headgear options for WotW: Helm of the White Void (helps CCs), Cap of the Laughingstock (helps melee), Acina's Tricorn (helps AoEs) and Thaos' Headdress (helps all attacks if enemies are affected by Blinding Smoke).

Edited by Kaylon
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Thanks all for the info everyone. I decided to try out FF but play on Normal instead of Veteran just to test out the mechanics of it. Went with Moon Godlike for the healing early on. Hopefully it won't be overkill/unnecessary in the long run and I gave up a helm slot for nothing. I ended up going something like 10/10/17/17/5/19 for stats.

So far am level 13 and it's not gone too terribly bad, although to be fair, those 13 levels were mostly non-combat. Did the whole Fort Deadlight-> Dunnage -> Sandswept etc. route, uncovered all the map, and am just now going to start Nekehata quests.

Also, I know people have said Monk can be micro heavy, so since I am only on normal, I am testing out my ability to set up AI scripts. Nothing crazy, just for like Second Wind and keeping my buffs up (using Lightning Strikes now, will prob switch to Swift Flurry later). I am not saying I am just letting it play itself, but I like to see how well I can make things play themselves if that makes sense.

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On 9/7/2022 at 9:32 PM, Waski said:

I needed 22 might outside combat to have 2 WotW in a row (to take command of battlefield with Ajamuut cloak), it was all about having enough +dmg taken (from might & hel subclass, around +60%) to push DoT from Hylea talons past 8 dmg (+1 wound)

Have you try, instead of Hylea's Talons, to dual wield with a scepter with the modal enabled? With Current's Rush for example, or the Eye of Wael. 

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2 hours ago, Boeroer said:

I don't get it. If it's a Forbidden Fist how do the tick damage of Hylea's Talons or the self dmg of scepters like Current's Rush matter?

It is about the Helwalker self wounds generation, with 8 damages = 1wound. Voidwheel also work, giving to Hellwalker, Nalpazca and vanilla monk a "like- Shattered Pillar" way to get wounds during WotW, for example.

6 hours ago, dgray62 said:

Hmm, WotW wielding Current's Rush with the modal enabled would be an AoE explosion, I think.

 Oh yes that can happen, but it is about the 20% damages as raw for self !

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On 9/11/2022 at 10:55 AM, Constentin Lévine said:

It is about the Helwalker self wounds generation, with 8 damages = 1wound.

Lol sorry, I read the quote and thought it was from @SilverArrowsMPwho just started with a Forbidden Fist, but the quote was from @Waski. 🤦‍♂️

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