Advice needed: Chanter/Rogue on PotD

[Sandokan]

Hey y'all,

I've been preparing for a Deadfire playthrough after finishing PoE on PotD with a Chanter, and I'd like to get a bit of an advice on the viability of my planned build before I start. I like Chanter as a class, but I want to try a more damage based approach this time. How well would a Skald/Trickster multiclass work?

The idea is to combine trickster defensive buffs and passive auras to increase survivability in melee, crits to get more phrases, disable enemies and get easy sneak attacks with Chanter debuffs, blast enemies with cheap invocations.

Am I onto something here or would I still get quickly killed in melee and the better approach would be to multiclass with a Fighter or a Monk? I'm planning to use just the story companions, if that matters.

Any advice or input would be greatly appreciated. 

[Boeroer]

That should work well enough. I see no problem with that combination. Trickster isn't a tank class by any means, but it's way sturdier than a regular rogue. 
It is worth to take a shield imo. Defenses have increasing returns  - and if you use defensive buffs like Mirrored Images etc. in oder to be more sturdy you might as well double down on the defense and pick up a shield. Works also in favor for Riposte. 

A nice weapon for a Skald/Trickster is Sun & Moon - mainly because it has two chances to crit per attack (two flail heads which each do a separate attack roll per swing) which gives a lot higher chance to get a phrase. Also you get two chances to apply Rogue's Strike afflictions. I personally would pair it with Tuotilo's Palm - because the bash would be another chance to land a crit and it works with Rogues' Full Attacks, meaning that Crippling Strike etc. will do three attack rolls (2 flail heads + 1 shield bash).

But stuff like Rapier (see Rännig's Wrath) or so would also work.  

[Constentin Lévine]

2 hours ago, Sandokan said:

Am I onto something here or would I still get quickly killed in melee and the better approach would be to multiclass with a Fighter or a Monk?

Only differents approach, not better I think. Monk-Skald is great combinaison, particularely with the weapons Boeroer spoke, because the 2 classes are really complementary. The crit chance (2 with Sun and Moon) can, on succes, land a serie of another crit (swift flurry, heartbeat drumming) than can provide a phrase (or maybe it is only on first crit, from the auto-hit, because swift flurry proc is considered like an ability hit). However, the int bonus from the monk profit to chants and spells, ect. I like Forbidden First- Bellower as frontliner personaly.

But a rogue have many tools that can make a Trickster-Skald a better approach for you.

[Boeroer]

Yes - the Skald can only gain 1 phrase from any melee offensive action - no matter how often you actually crit within it. So 10 crits in a row with the help of Swift Flurry/Heartbeat Drumming will not give you up to 10 phrases but only 1. But of course the chance to get that 1 is a lot higher than 50% then.  

Skald/Trickster also works well if you use the Whispers of the Endless Paths with Offensive Parry. The parry counts as separate melee attack which can give you 1 phrase if it crits. Iirc Riposte does not provide crits for whatever reason, but it doesn't get supressed by Offensive Parry either - so you can deliver two "Ripostes" every time the enemy misses you in melee. You need high melee deflection in order to pull this off - luckily the Trickster has some tools for that.  

[NotDumbEnough]

My personal experience is that while the cheap low tier invocations are good, most fights are decided instantly with Sasha's Singing Scimitar and an empowered Her Tears Fell Like Rain (or its unupgraded version), regardless of difficulty (as in, you will likely deal upwards of a thousand total damage per cast by the late game). You might not get much mileage out of Trickster's sneak attack since your invocations will do most of the damage. I'd recommend multiclassing with a saber Devoted instead, as the perception inspiration is helpful for your invocations as well as getting you more crits.

Edited July 15, 2022 by NotDumbEnough

[Okkes]

Also disengage attacks has pretty huge accuracy bonus, you can get terrify with trickster.

[Sandokan]

Everybody, thanks a lot your for your advice, it was very helpful.

However, after a bit of further research, I am currently  leaning towards multiclassing with a Monk(probably a Helwalker). Sure, the Rogue passives and defensive spells from Trickster are great and I like Sun and Moon/Tuotilo's Palm combo, but doesn't the shield need Monk fists to be viable as a weapon?  Also, Monk has access to inspirations, still a few usable full attacks, +10 int (and potenially +10 might as a Helwalker), and weaker, but still useful defensive buffs, and as Constentin mentioned, better crit synergy with Swift Flurry/Heartbeat Drumming. 

This combination seems like it would greatly improve Chants, Invocations, and overall crits. On the other hand, survivability would be worse (especially as a Helwalker), and neither Chanter nor Monk seem to get a lot of accuracy bonuses to get those crits in the first place.

I couldn't find the answer to this question anywhere, but how do The Long Pain and its upgrades interact with Skald? Are they still considered melee for crit purposes?

If I went as a Chanter/Monk, which subclasses, if any, would you reccomend? +10 Might from Helwalker is very attractive, but looking at taking +50% damage, maybe FF would be a better choice.  Also, with lower accuracy and therefore lower crit chance from not being a Rogue, wouldn't a Troubadour or no subclass work better in this case? Is Bellower any good? 

[NotDumbEnough]

Only Instruments of Pain count as true melee. The Long Pain and The Pain Persists are ranged weapons and in fact do not play well with many monk abilities.

[Jayd]

6 hours ago, Sandokan said:

Everybody, thanks a lot your for your advice, it was very helpful.

However, after a bit of further research, I am currently  leaning towards multiclassing with a Monk(probably a Helwalker). Sure, the Rogue passives and defensive spells from Trickster are great and I like Sun and Moon/Tuotilo's Palm combo, but doesn't the shield need Monk fists to be viable as a weapon?  Also, Monk has access to inspirations, still a few usable full attacks, +10 int (and potenially +10 might as a Helwalker), and weaker, but still useful defensive buffs, and as Constentin mentioned, better crit synergy with Swift Flurry/Heartbeat Drumming. 

This combination seems like it would greatly improve Chants, Invocations, and overall crits. On the other hand, survivability would be worse (especially as a Helwalker), and neither Chanter nor Monk seem to get a lot of accuracy bonuses to get those crits in the first place.

I couldn't find the answer to this question anywhere, but how do The Long Pain and its upgrades interact with Skald? Are they still considered melee for crit purposes?

If I went as a Chanter/Monk, which subclasses, if any, would you reccomend? +10 Might from Helwalker is very attractive, but looking at taking +50% damage, maybe FF would be a better choice.  Also, with lower accuracy and therefore lower crit chance from not being a Rogue, wouldn't a Troubadour or no subclass work better in this case? Is Bellower any good? 

I posted this class build a little while back that you might find of interest. One of my favourite characters for sure, maybe the favourite.

Monks get a good accuracy boost from Dance of Death/Enduring Dance. My build uses speed, crowd control, and tanking support from companions to avoid getting hit. Worked great.

The vast majority of your damage with this class combo will come from Her Revenge Swept Across the Land. It's going to be a caster first and foremost if you play it to its strengths. If you're keen on focusing on weapon damage instead, a Rogue multi might be better.

[yorname]

monks is good, helwalker's +50% damage taken is not a big deal because you'll have tons of CC that most enemies won't be doing anything, and you can simply give the tougher enemies someone else to play with. +10 might is also great for your healing from ancient memory.

rogue's only crit boost is Dirty Fighting and is essentially just a worse version of +5 accuracy most of the time, Dance of Death/Enduring Dance is better, just make other party members better suited for AI and spend more time on yourself.

if you still worry about being hit, pick a fighter with Conquerer Stance and Disciplined Strikes. Peak perfomance is not as good as a helwalker but requires less attention.

[Constentin Lévine]

On 7/16/2022 at 3:48 PM, Sandokan said:

If I went as a Chanter/Monk, which subclasses, if any, would you reccomend? +10 Might from Helwalker is very attractive, but looking at taking +50% damage, maybe FF would be a better choice.  Also, with lower accuracy and therefore lower crit chance from not being a Rogue, wouldn't a Troubadour or no subclass work better in this case? Is Bellower any good? 

That depend to how you orient your build : if you plan to do a crowd-control/dps (in this order), then a FF subclass should be really great. The thing to know about Enfeebled is the effect cant stack (when it is applied, the duration of the affliction is refreshed) but when the enfeebled effect is over, reapplying it give another +50% duration for current effects but for their total duration since they began. So, a good way to paralyse or stun an enemy for a long time is to, in first, Forbidden first him, in second, at the end of the FF effect, CC spell, in third, when the FF effect is over, re-FF, etc. In the case when the duration to the debuff effect to prolong is inferior to FF effect, reapplying the CC spell will refresh the duration too, but with some FF effects on this last, the debuff can get a really high duration, so that give you the time to kill him or other freely.

Helwalker might bonus give also a bonus to health received, since that come from your monk. Chanter have some chants that give health, and some weapons return health (Aldris Blade of Captain Crow by exemple) and some items too. But without healthy stuff, as Chanter, you can stop enemies before the drame. It is a DPS/crowd control build (in this order).

Troubadour is nice since the phrase duration can be reduced, actually is really nice with energized inspiration that the chanter can have. That mean, by 3s, an general interrupt when the chant crit around you. Also, chant loose their persistence, so damaging shield or affliction downgrade chants car be reapplyed by 3s, and skeleton from Many lives chant spawn every 3s too. 

Bellower, in DPS purpose, is a good option(also in debuffing way, but the AoE of chants is really short around you) : low PL invocations like Her revenge or others gain a potential great boost and, with a priest in the party, the PL bonus can be prolonged for some time, that can be useful to recast low PL invocation with a huge boost to reduce quickly the number of enemies by exemple. 

This is only from my game experience, probably you will see some relevant points others than mines, so the better thing is to test some combinaisons in a tavern with an old save when you hesitate strongly imo

[dgray62]

The enfeebled affliction is great with any affliction, and for this reason FF is great with any classes that feature CC powers, like chanter or cipher. For this reason, I would go with FF chanter. However, if you have the BPM installed you might also consider a chanter/cipher, since BPM boosted Fractured Volition so that it inflicts enfeeblement as well. Either could easily do upscaled PotD solo; with high RES and tuotilo's shield in the off hand you'd be very tanky and could be a master disabler. As for chanter subclass, skald is great since you will crit a lot and can repeatedly cast damaging low level invocations (Her Revenge) or the paralysis invocation, as needed. Troubadour is fantastic for perma-interrupts as @Constentin Lévineindicated. The downside is that the disabling chants don't last long at all when you fast chant. Bellower is also fantastic for the PL boost. If you are soloing, the reduced radius for chants won't matter since the enemies will swarm you.