Anime - Oh No! Oh My God!

[majestic]

8 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Which would be why you've been watching K-On to get your fix instead!

Yesterday I hit the first episode in K-On!! that I would consider... weak? Weaker than the rest, at the very least. The writers decided to have a Tsumugi focus episode, and it kind of fell flat.

She's the sheltered from real life rich girl character. Mild mannered, polite, well behaved. The polar opposite of Ritsu and Yui, of course, and a fun contrast. Ritsu takes her to an arcade and a thrift candy store, things she'd never go to otherwise, and she's running around with that childlike expression of interest and fun, as if you'd drop a nine year old into a theme park for the first time in their life. Then she asks Ritsu to whack her, because Mio is always doing that to Ritsu when Ritsu says or does something silly and she wants that too.

Actually it's been like that the entire time, even in the first season, some episodes ago they went to a hardware and home store and she spent a minute in complete reverie staring at cleaning supplies. She then bought something to polish metal and ran around polishing the faucets at school. Sure Mugi, you do that. That's fine... for like Cardcaptor Sakura, maybe, but not even that. It's slightly ridiculous for a high school senior.

There are the little things in between, like her starting the pillow fight on the school trip. Done with an immensely funny, mischievous expression on her face (and Mio is uttely baffled it wasn't Ritsu or Yui). They work, because everyone else is there to make it work. In one episode she was immensely happy to have been told to stand in the hallway by Sawako as punishment for disturbing the class.

For a focus episode with only two cast members for the first half of it, no. Although she did manage to get slapped silly by Ritsu at the end when she told her that Ritsu would be really popular if she were a boy (the implication here that them going out would have been a fun date if it hat been one).

The ending of the episode was great, and Mugi in general with her attempts to be like a regular girl even though she clearly isn't, is really nice. The writers don't really know what to do with her at times it seems. She's either doing something mature like taking up a low wage part time job in order to connect with the peasants (not her words), or she's falling back into the age category that she looks like, what with the sort-of-chibi look of the show.

Eh, rant over. The episode wasn't even bad, and had a few laughs.

8 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

No, I haven't tried anything from that list I compiled yet. Eriko and Miyu (and a few others I tried like Flower Witch Mary Bell...which was actually not bad at all but if you think Sakura is aimed at too young of an age group, Flower Witch Mary Bell is like literally for five year olds and nobody older, so I abandoned it after a couple of episodes, ) were my own discoveries from doing a cursory search of shoujo shows released from between like 1980-1999.

That's the case for many pre-Sailor Moon magical girl series, or those that came out at roughly the same time. The idea that maho shojo animes (or mangas) could have a more general audience than five to nine year old girls wasn't really there before that, and even for Sailor Moon that ended up being a happy accident. Probably to a good degree because Ikuhara pushed hard to not have it devolve into the Mamoru/Usagi focused lovey dovey romance fest that the manga is, at times.

9 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

I make no guarantees of their quality or anything of the sort, they're simply shows that I have at least a passing interest in investigating more. Shoujo shows that are currently on THE LIST (in mostly romanji because that's what they're listed as in my bookmarks and I don't feel like finding each of their individual English names even though romanji is utterly ridiculous if you actually have proper English translations): Kaitou Saint Tail, Mahou Kishi Rayearth, Tenkuu no Escaflowne, Ojamajo Doremi, Gokinjo Monogatari, Kodomo no Omocha, Hime-chan no Ribbon, Marmalade Boy, Fruits Basket, Full Moon no Saga****e(?), Onii-sama E, Rose of Versailles, Haikara-san ga Tooru, Mahou no Tenshi Creamy Mami (...probably the same case as Flower Witch Mary Bell for this one in regards to the target demographics, though, but supposedly it was influential).

A few others that actual human beings also recommended to me but which looked immediately not up my alley even at the quickest of glances were Kamikaze Kaitou Jeanne, Tokyo Mew Mew (catgirls...), Mermaid Melody, Daa! Daa! Daa!, Onegai My Melody, and Wedding Peach. I'm not likely to ever even try any of those, .

(e): Fixed one of the titles that was needlessly censored, .

Ah, actually, I've looked at a bunch of these before, roughly at the time when I decided to watch Princess Tutu. Ojamajo Doremi, for instance, I didn't like the art style (well, how surprising, right?) and the idea of going into 250 episodes or so of that wasn't very appealing without knowing if it's actually good.

Rayearth is on my list of CLAMP related stuff to try anyway, but that's been slightly re-prioritized by Clear Card. Vision of Escaflowne, eh, I wasn't really sure about that, but it's on Amazon Prime Video. As is Wedding Peach, which really looks like a cheap Sailor Moon knock-off that not even the fans of the Sailor Moon story episodes like.

Rose of Versailles was on TV here, as Lady Oscar. I caught an episode or two, but not enough to form an opinion (or to remember much, aside from it being set in France around the time of the French revolution), and it suddenly stopped over licensing issues. I might actually really try that next. I mean, "next" in the sense of sometimes after the backlog's mostly done.

Well, let's see. Probably won't get to it anytime soon either. I also still have a couple of Love Live! movies left to, uhm, enjoy.

9 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Apology...mostly accepted, . You could so much worse stylistically than The Powerpuff Girls! I may be slightly biased as a result of watching it as a kid...

Maybe. I don't know much about TPPG, just that I stumbled across an episode or two while zapping and it wasn't very appealing to me in terms of looks. The German dub's also pretty terrible from what I remember, so turned off it got.

[majestic]

8 hours ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

Well that was not as weird as I thought, but still very much out there. Maybe I'll get around to writing something longer, but right now my opinion is that it is ok. Parts of it are good, but the middle arc drags it down way too much.

Yeah, it does drag a little in the middle.

Don't miss out on the movie though, or you won't see...

Spoiler

Utena turning into a car and Anthy driving off with her. Literally.

[Bartimaeus]

3 hours ago, majestic said:

the idea of going into 250 episodes or so of that wasn't very appealing without knowing if it's actually good

Just a little reminder that I wouldn't have ever decided to give Sailor Moon a try in the first place if I had had this particular OCD issue! 200 episodes? I don't freaking think so, . But yes, it's probably a better idea to wait for me to try all of these out rather than make yourself a sacrificial guinea pig...of course, you simply would then have to trust my judgement, .

3 hours ago, majestic said:

Probably to a good degree because Ikuhara pushed hard to not have it devolve into the Mamoru/Usagi focused lovey dovey romance fest that the manga is, at times.

Thank you, Mr. Ikuhara - very cool, . How many episodes of K-On do you have left roughly anyways?

A break from Nadia...has opened the opportunity to watch Neon Genesis Evangelion instead. Some thoughts:

1. This show is gorgeous, although The End of Evangelion takes it to an even higher level.
2. The first couple of episodes are pretty rough around the edges writing and character-wise and just don't really feel like a great introduction to the series...but things start to even out and settle more into a rhythm after that, thankfully. I was kind of mentally groaning at some of the dialogue where Ristuko, Misato et al. kept yelling out really obvious things over and over during action scenes, and not to mention Misato just acting kind of (deliberately) uncomfortable in general, .
3. And yet even with that said...re-watching this really makes Rebuild look absolutely gosh-awful - and I don't mean visually, but from a direction, storytelling, character, and pacing viewpoint. Nothing about Rebuild really works in comparison to this. I'm tempted to lower my ratings of them even more retroactively. Did 1.0 really deserve a 6/10? Probably not... I think I was mostly operating off of nostalgia for the characters.
4. This time, watching with subtitles (for the Japanese track) on, and some of the changes they make in the English dub are...interesting. It's oddly more minimalist than the Japanese, as a number of times Shinji will confirm something with a quick "yes" will not be there in English (giving him the impression of almost being selectively mute), or he's supposed to have some kind of quick thought that isn't there, lines from characters that are off-camera when they're saying them are often delayed from the Japanese timing for some reason, just...oddities like that for whatever reason. What's actually there is quite faithful in meaning even if sometimes the exact words change, though. I should eventually watch the series in Japanese...maybe next time, if there is one. It's not the longest series in the world and it seems to be way more digestible having already seen it compared to the first time where my brain was trying to keep up with all of the technobabble and insane story and character stuff, so there probably will be at some point.
5. I'm not finding Shinji to be annoying basically at all. Not sure if the result of watching Rebuild, a better perspective from having already seen the series, or just my tastes changing as a result of time, or something else. Actually, having already seen the entire series really makes this a lot more enjoyable in general, in my opinion.
6. Scenes that I had no clue the import of and couldn't really remember happening after they did (like Kaji just randomly delivering Adam to Gendo - how the hell was I supposed to know the importance of that when it happens so freaking early on?!) sure make a lot more sense having already seen the show, .

Edited September 11, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

3 hours ago, majestic said:

Yeah, it does drag a little in the middle.

Don't miss out on the movie though, or you won't see...

  Reveal hidden contents

Utena turning into a car and Anthy driving off with her. Literally.

I'm probably going to wait a while before watching the movie. I still haven't got around to the feature length Violet Evergarden ova lmao.

For now, I'm going to try and finish up TOS and maybe a short series before returning to JoJo. 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said:

And yet even with that said...re-watching this really makes Rebuild look absolutely gosh-awful - and I don't mean visually, but from a direction, storytelling, character, and pacing viewpoint. Nothing about Rebuild really works in comparison to this. I'm tempted to lower my ratings of them even more retroactively. Did 1.0 really deserve a 6/10? Probably not... I think I was mostly operating off of nostalgia for the characters.

I think with Rebuild they changed their minds so much it became a jumbled mess, why NGE benefits from both a more coherent vision and slightly longer run time. Which to be fair it did use a lot better, while Rebuild body slammed us with technobabble insanity and relied on previous NGE viewing to have us relate to the characters.....NGE actually developed them. All in all NGE is definitely better. But I'd recommend Rebuild simply because

[majestic]

Well played sir, I expected a Mari picture.

1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said:

Just a little reminder that I wouldn't have ever decided to give Sailor Moon a try in the first place if I had had this particular OCD issue! 200 episodes? I don't freaking think so, . But yes, it's probably a better idea to wait for me to try all of these out rather than make yourself a sacrificial guinea pig...of course, you simply would then have to trust my judgement, .

That's one of the things that was easier back in the day of less information on the internet and regular TV. A TV show was over whenever the station decided it was. Nowdays, I look up a name and see something like 10 spinoffs and such, and yeah, that's really an annoying issue. I lived happily for years without trying Sailor Moon Crystal simply because I didn't know about it, after all.

Would I watch Sailor Moon now? Good question. If it came with a glowing recommendation, I guess so.

1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said:

How many episodes of K-On do you have left roughly anyways?

10 regular episodes, two specials, one OVA and a movie. I'm still debating with myself if I should go in broadcast/release order or chronological. The first special is after episode 21, the movie after 22, the second special after the movie and the OVA goes right where I am now.

In this case it probably won't matter. It's not like there are spoilers to be had.

There are also a bunch of three minute DVD/BR specials, but I don't have those at the moment. I think I'll just go with release order.

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

23 minutes ago, majestic said:

Well played sir, I expected a Mari picture.

I almost photoshopped Dio's face onto Mari, but I decided that it was too much effort.

I do recommend Rebuild though, tentatively and after watching NGE. I'd say it's ok compared to NGE's good, with much worse low points.

[InsaneCommander]

Steins;Gate 0 5-6:

 

Some reunions and my paranoia keeps me from trusting anyone in this timeline.

The new American professor seems to make Hiyajo’s life a nightmare.

“Mayushi’s clock has stopped” has to be one of the most terrifying things I ever heard.

 

7-8:

 

A surprising episode. Nothing went the way I expected. Also, the ending was important, but the Funimation website kept freezing at the same moment no matter how many times I refreshed. And it was one of the best scenes in the entire anime, I almost skipped it. Or actually it begun on episode 7 and really happened in 8.

These problems are frequent. If they merge everything in Funimation instead of Crunchyroll, I don’t know if I’ll be willing to pay for that.

[majestic]

14 hours ago, majestic said:

Rose of Versailles was on TV here, as Lady Oscar. I caught an episode or two, but not enough to form an opinion (or to remember much, aside from it being set in France around the time of the French revolution), and it suddenly stopped over licensing issues. I might actually really try that next. I mean, "next" in the sense of sometimes after the backlog's mostly done.

I kind of did that already, by the way. It's on Amazon Prime Video, at least... here. Quality work as usual when it comes to anime and Amazon, having only the German dub licensed. At least there's no TV station signation at the end. It'll be on my cardio playlist for the next three or four weeks, with its 40 episodes. The video quality is okay. I'm pretty sure the blu ray tansfer would be better, but that would require some licensing effort and perhaps some money from Amazon that they're quite interested in funneling into Prime Video originals that I have no interest in, but always put up ads for. Good job.

A few random observations:

- I immediately recognized the intro song:

- Japanese writers and animators are apparently really obsessed with rose themes when it comes to aristocracy and knights.

- 70ies manga, very late 70ies/early 80ies anime adaptation that looks the part (easily noticable with the faces and eyes).

- No idea how the Japanese original is, but the German dub is, as usual for the time, pretty good.

- Oscar is slapped twice by her father, fights two sword duels and gets into a protracted fist fight with her childhood friend, in the span of only 25 minutes. The grandmother of her childhood friend gets wasted when she hears how Oscar defied the king.

Set in 1770 at the time of the arrival of Maria Antonia (Marie Antoinette), archduchess of Austria, at the French court, Lady Oscar, who was raised as a boy by her father, an officer of some reknown in the French army, finds herself nominated to fight a duel for the post of the captain of the guard for Marie Antoinette by her father, which Louis XV accepts.

Oscar, of course, isn't happy about that and doesn't even want the job. She intercepts her opponent and fights the duel to see if she can win (and tells the boy that she does so to spare him the humiliation of losing to a girl in front of the entire court), earning the ire of both her father and the king, who isn't all too happy about his subjects defying his orders, but decides to give her the post anyway.

Faced with his obstinate daughter still wanting to refuse the post instead of being happy to not be arrested and executed for treason, her father asks her trusted friend and childhood companion André to talk some sense into her, which she overhears...

The first episode was really rough around the edges. It serves mostly as a character introduction and gives Oscar some traits that you would expect in the lead character of a shōnen anime. She's confident in her abilities to the point of being arrogant, defies her father and her king, and - as noted above - gets into fist fights. The fist fight leads to a nice bonding moment between her and André though, so it's not a total loss. I'm curious how that'll continue once they arrive at the court for real. I mean, obviously she accepts the post, how else would you have another 39 episodes. 

Anyway, the first episode was okayish. The opening narration made it clear that this'll span the time to at least the beginning of the French revolution. So far, while the story itself is fictional, the historical frame of reference was accurate.

Edited September 11, 2021 by majestic

[Bartimaeus]

Yeah, the historical drama isn't the one I would've gone for first, personally, . At least it's a little more interesting time period.

Random bluray screenshots you can compare to:

Spoiler

P.S. That German song made me realize how close "Asuka" and "Oscar" sounds, .

(e): Nadia has seemingly fallen off the same "world's largest cliff" that Ranma 1/2 did. This crap is so dumb. In episode 26, it was just more of the same as the previous two episodes in the first half followed by the second half of the episode just being a filler dream sequence that had no bearing on the current situation that just kept going and going until the end of the episode. Holy crap, please give me back Hideaki Anno, I'll try to never say anything bad about Rebuild of Evangelion ever again...

15 hours ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

I think with Rebuild they changed their minds so much it became a jumbled mess

Spoiler

Also, this is the second time I've seen Rei with purple eyes...

Though to be fair, I think it's because this scene was heavily blue-lit so blue + red = purple, so at least that makes sense unlike the Rebuild screenshot that never was above.

(e): Lmao, oops, I already broke my promise to not say anything bad about Rebuild, .

 

Edited September 12, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

2 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

I already broke my promise to not say anything bad about Rebuild, .

[Bartimaeus]

Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust (2001).

Early 2000s "cool" in the sense that during action scenes, someone will shoot literally about a thousand arrows in approximately two seconds (eyeroll), all of them will be pointed straight up into the sky as opposed to any actual targets (another eyeroll), they'll magically hit (yet another eyeroll), and some them will even be shown to visibly bend in mid-air (not even because of magic, a normal human shot them!) in clearly impossible ways for no apparent reason towards their target (and now we have arrived at The End of Eyerolls). At least JoJo's Bizarre Adventure has the decency to treat itself like the silly nonsense it is. ...But while the action's dumb, the story is actually probably better in this one than the original, and didn't really go where I expected given that this would initially appear to be just a big dumb action anime movie.

Spoiler

D (and another group of professional bounty hunters are actually pretty good too) is hired to rescue a young woman who has been taken captive by Vampire Baron Meier. D is told to try to rescue her, but if she is "baptized" (becomes a vampire) before he can rescue her, he is to slay her instead - her current status is unknown. D, however, already knows of Baron Meier and this causes him to approach this job more cautiously than others - Baron Meier is reputed to be a "pure" vampire in the sense that he has always refused to take any human victims, so all of this doesn't seem quite right to him...but all vampires are D's sworn enemies, and a job's a job, right? Well...

Indeed, I actually started skipping through the movie because the first fifteen minutes of the movie were so dumb that I gave up (just a pile of really bad action stuff), but I got like 30-40 minutes in and was like "wait, what's happening? wait, this is actually kind of interesting and looks much better" and ended up going back to where I had initially given up and then watched the rest of it. So you know, given how dumb it initially appeared and the fact that it came out 16 years after the first, much better than expected!

The aesthetic of this movie's closest comparison is Ghost in the Shell. It's not by any means just like it, particularly because the setting is so different, but here, look at this lady:

Spoiler

Little more angular than Ghost in the Shell, but like I said, closest I can think of.

 

Edited September 12, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[majestic]

8 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Yeah, the historical drama isn't the one I would've gone for first, personally, . At least it's a little more interesting time period.

Well... Amazon has that and Vision of Escaflowne, and I went for the historical drama rather than what's also flagged as mech anime. *nods* if I ever find my joy in fiddling with hard- and software setups again, I'll probably get a proper media streaming server for my home. The way it is now there's inertia and... revulsion to overcome. Back when the GTX 970 came out, I figured it would be a decent upgrade and decent value for my setup (a 980 would have been absolute overkill), so I bought one. 

It took me three months to actually install it, and that was just replacing one card with the other. 

Anyway, here's a screenshot of what Amazon's streaming:

Luckily I ran on a German TV station and am of at least PAL resolution, unlike my friend X over here who looked terrible throughout.

I also watched three more episodes of K-On!! and decided to go in release order. The middle of the second season is kind of not entirely there. I don't want to call it boring because the episodes  aren't, but they're not as funny as they were in the past, and the more serious character interactions aren't an entirely adequate substitute, at least when it comes to certain characters. In this case it was Azusa in the second of the three episodes.

Whenever there's character focus, it works best when it's Mio, Yui or Ritsu. That's partially a problem of the setup, becaues the three have more, well, flaws to work with. Yui is a complete airhead, Mio has her anxiety issues and Ritsu is a mostly unfocused flake. Azusa and Mugi don't have as much to work with, and it shows when the anime tries to focus on them.

It was also contrasted by the episode after that, which was pretty good, where the girls can't use their club room at school because the plumbing is being repaired. Spoiler marked because, eh, actual spoilers, I guess.

Spoiler

They're trying to practice in other locations and even go so far as to rent a studio for a bit, but end up discussing lyrics instead of actually playing. Mugi wrote a song, and they all try to come up with lyrics.

Half of the episode is spent on Yui realizing that there are things she takes for granted that she should appreciate more. Like her sister always helping her with everything, because she helped her write the lyrics, or the club room, now that it's closed for repairs. Ui ends up getting sick and Yui spends some time helping her for a change, and even makes some rice porridge that looks like Minako's attempts at cooking for her sick friends.

Yui then comes up with lyrics on her own about her appreciation for Ui.

That was great, and it really stands out compared to Azusa's somewhat uninteresting episode full of ruminations on how her friends affected and changed her outlook on school life and music practice. Azusa's function was to come in with her incredible ambition and motivation to strive for excellence and temper Yui and Ritsu's slacker attitudes while being mellowed down to normal. The thing is, that happened in the first season.

As always, that's complaining about minor things, I guess. Not everything can be Sailor Moon S where everything just worked, except perhaps for the one episode they spent focusing on the history of Neptune and Uranus, which wasn't a bad episode, just not a really interesting one. Like focusing on Mugi or Azusa. I guess... that's really a decent comparison.

8 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

P.S. That German song made me realize how close "Asuka" and "Oscar" sounds, .

Heh. Lady ASUKA!

8 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

(e): Nadia has seemingly fallen off the same "world's largest cliff" that Ranma 1/2 did. This crap is so dumb. In episode 26, it was just more of the same as the previous two episodes in the first half followed by the second half of the episode just being a filler dream sequence that had no bearing on the current situation that just kept going and going until the end of the episode. Holy crap, please give me back Hideaki Anno, I'll try to never say anything bad about Rebuild of Evangelion ever again...

*quietly pushes Nadia further down the watchlist*

 

Edited September 12, 2021 by majestic

[Bartimaeus]

29 minutes ago, majestic said:

Well... Amazon has that and Vision of Escaflowne, and I went for the historical drama rather than what's also flagged as mech anime. *nods* if I ever find my joy in fiddling with hard- and software setups again, I'll probably get a proper media streaming server for my home. The way it is now there's inertia and... revulsion to overcome. Back when the GTX 970 came out, I figured it would be a decent upgrade and decent value for my setup (a 980 would have been absolute overkill), so I bought one. 

It took me three months to actually install it, and that was just replacing one card with the other. 

That's...a while just to install a GPU. My greatest impediment in getting stuff like that done is usually just pain and exhaustion, . But if you ever do, be sure to let me know because I may have a resource that proves helpful to you once you have the space.

31 minutes ago, majestic said:

Anyway, here's a screenshot of what Amazon's streaming:

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but that looks quite awful indeed compared to the BD, .

32 minutes ago, majestic said:

except perhaps for the one episode they spent focusing on the history of Neptune and Uranus, which wasn't a bad episode

I was just thinking "eh, that one was kind of bad..." but then I immediately thought about Nadia's latest episodes and went wait, no, there's a big difference between boring and outright bad. Be thankful K-On doesn't have THAT... I'll be sure to keep you updated on whether it's able to redeem itself.

It really does sound like "Lady Asuka" to me...

[majestic]

2 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

That's...a while just to install a GPU. My greatest impediment in getting stuff like that done is usually just pain and exhaustion, . But if you ever do, be sure to let me know because I may have a resource that proves helpful to you once you have the space.

Thanks for the offer, but it might be a really long while until I take you up on it. I'm not sure where it comes from, but there's a very hard to penetrate mental block that formed against doing anything with my setup at home. Literally anything. Recently I tried playing Siverfall through a friend's Steam library that we "family" shared. I installed it, it didn't run out of the box, I uninstalled it and that was that. It's probably solvable in some way or another, but I'm not going to spend any energy on it.

It's so bad that trying to break through it - or having to break through it - causes actual discomfort, not just a mild itch, but really, a horrible combination of seething rage and a feeling of revulsion similar to what happens when you try to eat rotten food. Ugh.

It's really bad when my family is asking for support. I'm not always successful in hiding it, especially when it's something that I know they should know already, from working with  computers for the last 30 years - both at home and at their (former) jobs. Like calling me because they can't find a file they've just saved.

2 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but that looks quite awful indeed compared to the BD, .

It does, it does...

2 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

I was just thinking "eh, that one was kind of bad..." but then I immediately thought about Nadia's latest episodes and went wait, no, there's a big difference between boring and outright bad. Be thankful K-On doesn't have THAT... I'll be sure to keep you updated on whether it's able to redeem itself.

The last four or so episodes were made with Anno back at the helm, from what I've gathered. Don't expect anything until then, and that should temper the disappointment. Ideally... also, even within Sailor Moon, that episode isn't so bad when compared to SuperS. SuperS was really great, huh?

2 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

It really does sound like "Lady Asuka" to me...

I think that's more on Japanese and their vowels than on the German singer here.

Edited September 12, 2021 by majestic
the, with, whatever, what's the difference, right?

[Bartimaeus]

24 minutes ago, majestic said:

I think that's more on Japanese and their vowels than on the German singer here.

I mean, they could try enunciating the 'R' a little. It's not like *I'm* pronouncing Oscar and Asuka the same way like the singer here is, .

24 minutes ago, majestic said:

The last four or so episodes were made with Anno back at the helm, from what I've gathered.

Ah, that must be where the crazy crap that somehow connects all of it to Evangelion happens, .

24 minutes ago, majestic said:

also, even within Sailor Moon, that episode isn't so bad when compared to SuperS. SuperS was really great, huh?

Hmm...is it a fair comparison? Take an average episode from SuperS and insert it into S and does it work less than that single Haruka + Michiru episode? Would 40 episodes of variations on that episode be more or less miserable than 40 episodes of SuperS?

Edited September 12, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[majestic]

52 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

I mean, they could try enunciating the 'R' a little. It's not like *I'm* pronouncing Oscar and Asuka the same way like the singer here is, .

As if swallowing Rs at the end (or even in the middle) of words is purely a German thing.  

It's even worse for words that end in -er, because that really often morphs into an "a" sound, at least for Upper German dialects.

1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said:

Ah, that must be where the crazy crap that somehow connects all of it to Evangelion happens, .

That would be something. Let me know if it does.

1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said:

Hmm...is it a fair comparison? Take an average episode from SuperS and insert it into S and does it work less than that single Haruka + Michiru episode? Would 40 episodes of variations on that episode be more or less miserable than 40 episodes of SuperS?

Yes and less, but I'm probably too biased and it would depend a bit too much on which particular episode of SuperS you would pick. The second half of the season isn't as terrible as the first half and even has a couple of okay to good episodes.

However, yes, I'd rather have Sailor Moon S grade serious mode boring episodes like Haruka and Michiru's coming out metaphor for an entire season than the out of charcter insanity with sexual assault "sub"text that the first half of SuperS is.

Spoilers because dear god, I almost managed to seal all of this away in my mind and now it's back. Aaaaaaaaaah! BACK!

Spoiler

Have you forgotten the many crimes of SuperS, like making Makoto yell at her one-off friend that she never mentioned before or afterwards, Fish-Eye, Tiger's-Eye, Pedosus, Hawk's-Eye, that episode where Usagi and Chibi-Usa come to the conclusion that abusing your children is all right as long as it teaches them a lesson, Pedosus installing a Palantír in Chibi-Usa's room, or Pedosus blushing while stealing a sideward glance at Naked!Chibi-Usa... Tiger's-Eye insane giggling while penetrating other people's dream mirrors... Pedosus guilt tripping Chibi-Usa in the most pedophile way possible ("if you keep asking about me we can't see each other again" *poof*) or making her transform back into a child before kissing her.

Not to mention this:

Spoiler

And...

Spoiler

SCORE A GOAL INSIDE ME.

Seriously... that Haruka and Michiru episodes wasn't that great, sure, but it's nothing compared to the hell that is SuperS.

Also, I need to go and lie down now. Ugh. Okay, I apologize verily and muchly for bringing up SuperS.

[Bartimaeus]

There's a little something that I like to call a pro gamer move where you skip everything except for the dentist episode, .

But no, really, I think SuperS is so horrid precisely because it is ~40 episodes. Being punched in the mouth with the same terrible and gross gimmick over and over and over until you're broken and begging for the sweet release of death and you can't even get that because Pegasus will suck your soul into his nightmare dream realm like the vortex of a black hole and haunt you forevermore. But if the question is just a single average SuperS episode (say, one where just any old rando gets targeted) vs. that episode, I'm not sure the single SuperS episode would seem *that* egregious all by itself. Now if it was a...specific episode, like the one where Chibi-Usa enters Pegasus' (or her own?) dreams and flies around with him for like half of the episode, I'm taking the Michiru + Haruka episode a thousand times out of a thousand, of course...but just an average episode? I'm not as sure. This is probably a good reminder that I find the "serious mode" story episodes of Sailor Moon significantly weaker than even you do (...because they almost invariably strip all of the critical components that make Sailor Moon work as a show without doing anything interesting or otherwise engaging on basically any level that I could discern in return for being "serious"...outside of Sailor Stars, which does actually have a number of good "serious mode" episodes IMO, particularly the short filler arc at the beginning of the season).

Perhaps I'm barking mad and playing devil's advocate a little too much here, but I just feel like if you just took that "average" episode and inserted it somewhere in S, you would initially think it's a perfectly normal episode, eventually come to the conclusion that something feels a bit off with it and that the writing is definitely a bit worse than the rest...but that it still mostly feels like Sailor Moon and not think that much of it after it's ended. It's when you've been subjected to it five times...ten times, twenty times, thirty times, fourty times in a freaking row where you really become broken. And speaking of S, let's not forget that it already had this particular sequence...

Spoiler

oh gosh, I'm so sorry

...so it's not as though terrible stuff hadn't already been present in the show up until SuperS, . Feel free to Dr. Phil seizure me if you really think my line of thinking is that crazy, .

Edited September 12, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

54 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

Being punched in the mouth with the same terrible and gross gimmick over and over and over until you're broken and begging for the sweet release of death and you can't even get that because Pegasus will suck your soul into his nightmare dream realm like the vortex of a black hole and haunt you forevermore.

[majestic]

8 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Perhaps I'm barking mad and playing devil's advocate a little too much here, but I just feel like if you just took that "average" episode and inserted it somewhere in S, you would initially think it's a perfectly normal episode, eventually come to the conclusion that something feels a bit off with it and that the writing is definitely a bit worse than the rest...but that it still mostly feels like Sailor Moon and not think that much of it after it's ended. It's when you've been subjected to it five times...ten times, twenty times, thirty times, fourty times in a freaking row where you really become broken.

No, but I think you need to keep in mind that unlike you, I haven't skipped over any bits and pieces of SuperS, so the wear and tear of that season is much worse for me. The thought of most SuperS episodes makes me squirm, while any given non-SuperS serious mode episode is "meh" at worst and potentially "okay" and sometimes even "good", depending on the season it appears in.

Ultimately it does really come down to this: The flaws of SuperS, for me, far outweigh the fun there actually is every now and then. I mean, there are episodes early in SuperS that are pretty funny. Rei walking in on Mamoru or Usagi stalking around in her Ninja costume, yes, that was funny. It's also super ridiculous after Sailor Moon S to the point where I'd rather watch everyone die a thousand times over at the end of the first season than that again... hell, I'd rather look at the alien faces of the third Crystal season for that matter. And those things were scary.

8 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

And speaking of S, let's not forget that it already had this particular sequence...

  Reveal hidden contents

oh gosh, I'm so sorry

...so it's not as though terrible stuff hadn't already been present in the show up until SuperS, .

But... yes, that was a painful scene to watch, but it was in service of a really good episode where they even managed to give Mamoru something nice and useful to do (although to be honest, I could have done with less of a focus on her butt for a bit, but hey... honestly, after Rebuild, Sailor Moon's tiny bit of fanservice here and there doesn't look that bad any more). It also had Ami acting like Ami, not suddenly yelling at Mamoru because she randomly believes women that Mamoru talks to are hookers whose services he just, uhm, bought. Or even being generous here, she just thought Mamoru would go off and cheat on Usagi.

8 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

This is probably a good reminder that I find the "serious mode" story episodes of Sailor Moon significantly weaker than even you do

I think that's pretty much it, actually. For me, SuperS was significantly worse than any given serious mode episode in the other seasons. If SuperS was just a series of annoying assault allegories that are never talked about and Usagi and Chibi-Usa fighting a bit too much, then that would be different. As it stands, it commits a far worse crime than that: It has so many out of character moments that not even Mamoru understood what he was still doing in the anime, and he was barely in it!

I also still think that the mid season storyline where the Amazon Trio is saved was written as meta commentary on the state of Sailor Moon through Mamoru. It's not that hard to answer what is so lovable about Usagi, at any given point in the show that isn't SuperS.

Then there's the thing about comedy that much of it quickly starts to annoy me instead of being funny. That's my personal problem, like with the Ami-falls-over thing, for instance, and SuperS failed way too often.

8 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Feel free to Dr. Phil seizure me if you really think my line of thinking is that crazy, .

It's not, and I can understand it to a certain point. The Haruka and Michiru episode was tonally so different from the episodes it appeared in between that it sticks out like a sore thumb, in addition to not being the best episode. If you take any given really funny and great Sailor Moon episode and transplant it into NGE, it would be really wrong there too. Imagine literally everyone showing up at Misato's home, and an Angel would show up too and be defeated because there's no space to fight left and Shinji just kicks it over.

Yeah, doesn't work. Hmmm.

Edited September 12, 2021 by majestic

[majestic]

Lady Asuka, episode 2.

Normally, in such a case, I'd not bother with what's potentially going to be a long winded post with a tinge of woe is me, which if you find it in the coming words, is kind of intentional. Two episodes out of forty is also not really enough to form a firm opinion, or predict everything, especially when the series director was changed after episode 18, however, I kind of feel the need to type up words for the benefit of probably absolutely no one except me, and maybe @Bartimaeus.

There are some spoilers in this post, but I'll not mark them, because they're either obvious, don't matter or are historical facts. If you're bothered, don't read on. First of all, Lady Oscar's actual name is Oscar François de Jarjayes, which is such a handful that I'll from now on be calling her Asuka. In the second episode, Marie Antoinette arrives at Versailles, and is immediately unhappy with the looks and demeanor of Louis Auguste de Bourbon, her future husband. 

The plot of the episode revolves around a ridiculous kidnapping attempt where a boy with a wig pretends to be Marie Antoinette, and Asuka is the only one who notices that it's just a really pretty boy in women's clothing. Probably because she's a girl in men's clothing, right?

She follows the actual Marie Antoinette who takes her swap with what she thinks is a future handmaiden or servant as a fun gag and cue to run off to a dripstone cave that randomly happens to be close by. The kidnappers obviously knew that she's going to check out the cave because they come out of hiding to grab her. Well, aren't they lucky that Marie Antoinette decided to check out the random cave in the woods right next to where the swap happened to take place.

Which was supposed to be a secret meeting point at a neutral location between Austria and France (this is going to be interesting for later). There's no way anyone could have predicted that she would not only take off but run to the cave. The laws of probability haven't been violated enough yet, because of course Asuka als recognizes the archduchess in her servant's dress even though she's never before seen her. Asuka handily defeats the five grown men in the employ of the Duke of Orléans.

She either severely wounds or outright kills four of the five and captures one for interrogation, but the duke interferes from the shadows and kills him with a well thrown knife, because Asuka took the princess and fled in a random direction that just happened to be where the duke was waiting in just the right distance to be able to kill his underling before the interrogation. Sigh.

Meanwhile, in the time it takes Asuka to fight off the archduchess' would be kidnappers, the fake Marie Antoinette uses what will later become known as Littlefinger's Teleportation device to arrive at Versailles. I'm not really going to comment on the ridiculousness of nobody noticing that the girl they have is a boy in a horsecarriage ride that takes a while. A long while. A really, really long while without Littlefinger's handy teleporter. Asuka and the actual Marie Antoinette chase after them, and arrive just in the nick of time. The Duke of Orléans kills the pretender boy and is chewed out by Asuka for it, but manages to talk himself out of it. Can't have the king insulted like that, can we?

Okay. So, now that this is over with, the episode itself wasn't nearly as bad as the kidnapping plot is stupid, but we cannot possibly pretend this episode was well written. This kidnapping attempt only works because it was written to work, much like the defense of Winterfell in Game of Thrones.

There's also the problem of predictability: At the end of the episode, we're introduced to Marie Antoinette's future affair, Hans Axel von Fersen. Asuka and André are childhood friends, so Asuka is going to fall in love with someone else who will reject her only to realize that she loved André anyway. This is just the way these stories go. The shojo part, aside from somewhat more complex character interactions that in shonen anime of the same time, will probably be romance and pretty dresses for the nobles. I hope not, but it's certainy looking like it.

Being members of the French court during the upcoming French Revolution will most likely mean that they'll all, uhm, die or face some other suitable tragidy. Except for Hans Axel von Fersen. That guy lived until the early 19th century.

Historically, the manga for this was amongst the first, if not actually the first shojo historical drama manga, and found a larger demographic appeal in the setting and some of the action as well as intricacies of the plot and characters. Insofar it'll be a worthwhile watch, just like Attack No 1., if only to see the history of shojo animes, and I'm hoping that the adaptation is going to reflect that. If not in the first 18 episodes, then hopefully in the next 22 after the directorial change. 

And now for the one thing that I wanted to complain about: Apparently, when I watch or read or listen to any given entertainment, what I'm looking for and enjoy is apparently something that nobody else wants, with the sole exception of perhaps @Bartimaeus, but even that is sufficiently different (I liked X, I doubt he would, for instance, or as evidenced by our difference of opinion on how Haruka and Michiru's background reveal episode in Sailor Moon S compares to SuperS, a season we all sufficiently loathed). What I cannot understand, however, is the idea of suggesting this anime when asked for 80ies or 90ies shojo anime in the context of a Cardcaptor Sakura community.

Granted, I do not know the actual wording of these suggestions, nor the actual wording of the question, nor do I want to judge the community. This isn't me judging others for their opinions, it's me whining about feeling like an utter alien here because I can't for the life of me see any similarities. I'm not even disliking Lady Asuka so far, even if that episode was the epitome of stupid plots, at the end of the day, who really cares. It's the somewhat rough start of a historical drama and intrigue, cabals and plotting are part of any court.

If I'm right, and this is primarily going to be romance drama and later character drama relating to the revolution, then... then where, how... how... was I supposed to watch Cardcaptor Sakura for the battle costumes and the romance? Because that was certainly a part of it, but only a small one. *headscratch*

Guess the next time I have so many things to choose from, I'll just start with the mecha anime, or the 800 episode show with the weird art style. I'm going to watch some more K-On!! right now.

Edit:

See, K-On!! takes something out of Cardcaptor Sakura's playbook and has a Romeo and Juliet play, and the class decides that Mio and Ritsu are going to play Romeo and Juliet, with Tsumugi writing the script, who already teased heavy rewrites now that she has two unexpected lead characters with a special dynamic. This is a close to a gender swap as you can come in an all girls class. Like the Sleeping Beauty play in CCS.

Edit 2: Yui is a tree...

Edited September 12, 2021 by majestic

[Bartimaeus]

2 hours ago, majestic said:

What I cannot understand, however, is the idea of suggesting this anime when asked for 80ies or 90ies shojo anime in the context of a Cardcaptor Sakura community.

Granted, I do not know the actual wording of these suggestions, nor the actual wording of the question, nor do I want to judge the community. This isn't me judging others for their opinions, it's me whining about feeling like an utter alien here because I can't for the life of me see any similarities.

You remember that list of shows I said "these were also suggested but they clearly weren't for me even at a glance"? What I didn't say was that there was actually a third list made by people who clearly did not listen to a gosh danged word that I said and just suggested random crap that they liked. Here, I'll compile them for you real quick:

Kuragehime (2011, josei and not shoujo?), Sukitte Ii na yo (2012, not shoujo?), Kobato (2009, seinen), Mawaru-Penguindrum (2011, IKUHARU, not shoujo?), Kimi ni Todoke (2009), City Hunter (???), Ranma 1/2 (???), Beyond the Boundary (???), Bloom Into You (???), After the Rain (???), Madoka Magica (!?!?!!!?!??!!!)...

My specific asks were "pre-2000s or just about", "shoujo", and "I love the original Sailor Moon and the original Cardcaptor Sakura", and somehow people recommended those. I kindly thanked everyone individually for their suggestions, because at least they put some time and thought into replying and coming up with some suggestions, but really, there was a lot of junk to parse through in the replies, . Essentially, I just bookmarked everything that looked interesting that I might want to check out even if they weren't quite the fit I was looking for. Suffice to say, there are dummies in every community, .

Historical drama is something I really have to be in a specific mood for...and boy, does that sound veery historical drama-y. Looks like I won't be trying Rose anytime soon, .

5 hours ago, majestic said:

No, but I think you need to keep in mind that unlike you, I haven't skipped over any bits and pieces of SuperS, so the wear and tear of that season is much worse for me. The thought of most SuperS episodes makes me squirm, while any given non-SuperS serious mode episode is "meh" at worst and potentially "okay" and sometimes even "good", depending on the season it appears in.

Keep in mind that my entire logic is predicated upon "which would seem less weird and bad for someone who hasn't already seen either" which I think would be the SuperS episode...but for someone who's already been subjected to SuperS, it's almost definitely the Michiru + Haruka episode. Yes, even myself: I'm pretty sure I'd rather seen the Michiru + Haruka episode now than just about any except maybe the 3-5 best SuperS episodes...but that's because I've already seen (the majority of) the terror that is SuperS, while I was never subjected to 40 variations of that particular S episode, . If I had been subjected to 40 straight variations of that S episode, I...probably would've just straight up started skipping through entire episodes until I got through it because I would've been completely bored out of my mind to the point of not wanting to watch the show anymore otherwise.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said:

Madoka Magica (!?!?!!!?!??!!!)

[Bartimaeus]

I AM A DREAMER, HISOMU PAWAA!

...is the best sounding part of a bad Cardcaptor Sakura intro song, and also coincidentally the very first line of the song. It's all downhill from there.

Spoiler

Gee, I wonder whom the Mystery Transfer Student could be. Sure has both me and Kero stumped, .

Xiaolang needs to law down the law and beat the snot out of Eriol. ...I love Nakuru's theme song. However, I'm not sure if I love this smile that looks bordering on evil.

Oh, literally right after I snapped this, she taunted Yukito about not knowing something, so yeah, RIP me, I guess she's evil...or at least that's the implication. Knowing this show, that probably won't end up being quite the case...but she definitely seems to have the most obvious evil presence I've seen so far. Even Ms. Mizuki was always just creepy and off-putting, not evil like the impression this girl immediately gave off.

...Yukito (and Kero) has a magical girl transformation, . Seeing him in Sakura's room just standing around seems totally wrong somehow, haha. "Just get used to it already." Yeah, no can do, pal. You're super weird when you're your full size, Kero!

So yeah, I'm not a hundred percent how necessary this whole change to being star-powered really was. Feels pretty random and like an ill-fitting "welp we need some kind of idea to weaken Sakura for a bit and to keep this going", .

...Which, hey, I'm not against per se, but I think I'll probably come to understand what you mean by "the first two arcs worked perfectly while the third...not so much" in good time here, .

 

Edited September 13, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[majestic]

9 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

You remember that list of shows I said "these were also suggested but they clearly weren't for me even at a glance"? What I didn't say was that there was actually a third list made by people who clearly did not listen to a gosh danged word that I said and just suggested random crap that they liked. Here, I'll compile them for you real quick:

Kuragehime (2011, josei and not shoujo?), Sukitte Ii na yo (2012, not shoujo?), Kobato (2009, seinen), Mawaru-Penguindrum (2011, IKUHARU, not shoujo?), Kimi ni Todoke (2009), City Hunter (???), Ranma 1/2 (???), Beyond the Boundary (???), Bloom Into You (???), After the Rain (???), Madoka Magica (!?!?!!!?!??!!!)...

Hum... I just looked at the first of these, and this is what wikipedia tells me:

Quote

 

Princess Jellyfish centers on Amamizukan, an apartment building in Tokyo, where the only tenants are otaku women, and where no men are allowed. While each character has her own particular fixation, the protagonist is Tsukimi Kura****a, whose love of jellyfish stems from memories of her deceased mother taking her to an aquarium and linking the lace-like tendrils of jellyfish to the dresses of princesses. Tsukimi hopes to become an illustrator and is an awkward girl terrified of social interaction, attractive people and the prospect of formal work.

The other tenants of Amamizukan are the same, being NEETs who refer to themselves as the "Sisterhood" (nuns). Tsukimi meets the stylish Kuranosuke Koibuchi, the illegitimate son of a politician, who cross-dresses to avoid the obligations of politics and to feel closer to his mother. Tsukimi keeps the secret of his masculinity from her man-hating housemates, even as she is troubled by the intimacy of having a man in her room at times.

Amamizukan's neighborhood is under threat of redevelopment, as opportunists aim to turn the quaint area into a more cosmopolitan region, with many of the buildings being demolished to make room for hotels and shopping centers. Although Amamizukan's tenants fear and loathe attractive people, they are helped by Kuranosuke who does not want to see Amamizukan destroyed.

 

Okay. I get it. If you like watching 12 year olds crossdress for middle school theater plays, you might also like... whatever this is. 

9 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

My specific asks were "pre-2000s or just about", "shoujo", and "I love the original Sailor Moon and the original Cardcaptor Sakura", and somehow people recommended those. I kindly thanked everyone individually for their suggestions, because at least they put some time and thought into replying and coming up with some suggestions, but really, there was a lot of junk to parse through in the replies, . Essentially, I just bookmarked everything that looked interesting that I might want to check out even if they weren't quite the fit I was looking for. Suffice to say, there are dummies in every community, .

I don't even want to imagine what else there as if this is the curated list minus all the junk.  

9 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Historical drama is something I really have to be in a specific mood for...and boy, does that sound veery historical drama-y. Looks like I won't be trying Rose anytime soon, .

With only two episodes it's a bit too early, but it sure looks like it's part action, and part (out)dated shojo material. However, with the creative team change, maybe something more interesting will emerge. 

9 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Keep in mind that my entire logic is predicated upon "which would seem less weird and bad for someone who hasn't already seen either" which I think would be the SuperS episode...but for someone who's already been subjected to SuperS, it's almost definitely the Michiru + Haruka episode. Yes, even myself: I'm pretty sure I'd rather seen the Michiru + Haruka episode now than just about any except maybe the 3-5 best SuperS episodes...but that's because I've already seen (the majority of) the terror that is SuperS, while I was never subjected to 40 variations of that particular S episode, . If I had been subjected to 40 straight variations of that S episode, I...probably would've just straight up started skipping through entire episodes until I got through it because I would've been completely bored out of my mind to the point of not wanting to watch the show anymore otherwise.

Name the five best SuperS episodes. Good luck.  

Although, you're probably right when looking through the lens of a first time viewer, running into the Haruka and Michiru episode is more of a change and potential bore than some of the SuperS episodes. I wonder if a random assault scene without the context of the first episodes and the dialogue of the three creeps would be less of an issue. It's the framing of the first two assaults and the way they talk abou their victims that does that, not so much the act of looking at dreams. 

You'd probably have to take a Hawk's-Eye episode, and ideally not the one with the old lady. Hmmmm, mushrooms.

Anyway, the two theater play K-On!! episodes were a riot. It also shows that episodes focusing on Yui or Mio or Ritsu, or any combination of the three, simply work best. 

Spoilered question, not a spoiler:

Spoiler

You up for trying K-On! yet?  Heh.