Anime - Oh No! Oh My God!

[Amentep]

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9 hours ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

I did it, I finished Evangelion 3.0+1.01 Thrice Upon a Time. That sure was something, and I'll probably end up posting more after I've had some time to think. But coming right out of it, I enjoyed it and think it works as an ending.

 

7 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Miyu stuff:

  Reveal hidden contents

...Miyu ends up pulling the same thing on the next Guardian, as Miyu drains a pregnant woman whose child, Yui, becomes her vampiric successor after (in a clear departure from the show) Larva is forcefully separated from her and cleansed of her blood by his Western Shinma brethren and he slays her when she finds herself unable to fight him. Fittingly, Yui apparently ends up becoming an even weaker and crappier Guardian than Miyu was...though I guess she is able to devise some kind of ritual to resurrect Miyu through the blood Miyu bestowed upon her some time later, allowing the two of them to team up. Larva is eventually brought back into the fold as well. Typical anime stuff, really.

Sure would like to read wherever this (Yui + Miyu) came from, but I can't!

Evangelion: Guess I'll try the first one, 1.0, and get back to you guys on whether I can take a second one, .

 

4 hours ago, majestic said:

Miyu talk:

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TV show Miyu seems to be from the early 20th century, while OVA Miyu was more like from mid 20th century. The entire backstory with Larva however, in the TV anime, made it look like Miyu is centuries old, I mean, he's talking about Japan as this poor, far away nation that he happened to chance upon, barely worth conquering, and Garine comes on a boat that looks like it would not have been out of place in the 18th century, possibly earlier.

Not that I would have noticed. The birds are by all means just a, uhm, bird-like "tribe" of Shinma, and for some reason the sworn enemies of the guardians. Technically all stray Shinma are, but unlike the others who act on what they want or need, they hide and attack the guardian specifically, apparently.

They seem to be loosely based on Tengu, avian yokai (Reiha is a yokai too - Japanese animistic spirits from Shinto tradition that aren't necessarily evil, and Japanese vampires are oni - which is a type of yokai).

The implication here was, I think, that the "Dark", the dimension, hell, plane of existence or whatever it is supposed to be, exists in all humans. That sort of harkens back to the OVA intro where the Shinma were sealed in darkness because humans were afraid of them. It's not an uncommon concept that the spiritual world is driven back or sealed by human progress, but how much that is supposed to be the implication here beats me.

Humans can somehow be turned into Shinma, that was part of the OVA too, with the possessed armor. Either that or humans can be used by Shinma as a conduit to manifest themselves in the real world, works either way you want it to, I think.

Have you ever played Terranigma, by the way? That never came out in the US as far as I know, but is fantastic as far as these late SNES action RPGs go, and it certainly beats more well known games like Secret of Mana in terms of storytelling and atmosphere (if not entirely perhaps in gameplay).

Or it means that the shinma were "sealed" in humanity by ongoing interbreeding. Based on Reiha, the protectors and Miyu, human characeristics seem to be pretty dominant, or a combination of the above. Either way I don't think there was a definitive answer given in the TV show. Perhaps there is one in the manga, in one of the volumes that came out after the anime.

It sure looks that way. Miyu's father was killed by THE BIRDS before he could pass on much knowledge, and everone involved in making sure Miyu awakens died without being able to tell her much about it. Should probably have educated their little girl a bit earlier.

They seem to have had parents that were regular shinma, and were only born as humans. However, the whole "egg" metaphor seems to have implied that Chisato was human until her shinma personality emerged, and combined they did indeed struggle for a while before doing what they were supposed to. Chisato only kills Hisae after being told to, not because she really wanted. 

Chisato sure seemed fond of Miyu even as she attempted to fulfill her own destiny. She never transformed into a demonic creature either, unlike ber brother.

If she was fully human though, uhm, the charms would not have been necessary. Or would they have?

True. I also never expected giant anthropomorphized chickens to be Chisato's parents, or random John Lennon with sunglasses street vendor to be demonic. Still, yeah, not bad a guess, huh?

Although I still think it would have been better to make Miyu decide between doing her job and saving Chisato, and have one of the three perhaps die in the process, making the other two aware of who and what she is, and causing a rift. That would have been enough, really. There was enough potential for drama in the setup, without twisting the knife some more.

Not entirely certain what Reiha meant by going to look for herself. She apparently survived being decapitated. Did she meant the part she put into her creepy doll that is now gone, or do you think that has something to do with Miyu's personal quasi-plane where she also seems to keep Chisato's spirit? Actually, does Miyu keep all her victims' spirits there, there are some other spirit "balls" all over the place. Is that her happy place she sends the minds of the people to when she drinks their blood?

If that's the case, then we have another point for humans being potentially linked to whatever Darkness the shinma reside in. Assuming her plane there isn't the darkness.

Right, there's also the one thing Bird-Guy said about the bird wings covering the Earth, making everything dark again. That's another point for the idea that human progress or intermingling sealed the shinma away originally.

Or that the guardians are perhaps there to protect both humans and shinma, which is why Miyu is both humand and shinma, and that would make Bird Guy a sort of Lord Voldemort .

edit:

I originally thought, while watching the ending, that Miyu and Larva would leave for the Darkness themselves at the end of the show, and transition the role of the guardian to Reiha, who at the end there at least seems to have found some compassion.

Didn't really happen. Still might, though.

That made not much sense either. Bird guy said a lot of things at the end there, but maybe he just had really high resistance against piercing damage, rendering Larva's default attack useless after he loses his scythe.

 

 

1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said:

Yes, I played and beat it years ago. Gameplay was solid, I liked the world and atmosphere stuff...but the writing was very often clumsy at best. May be partly the translation's fault, though, .

Miyu:

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Prooobably not gonna ever figure that one out, then, unless someone has written about it online...

 

This is why you should always keep your ancient texts handy... Kind of important in the event of literally everybody but you in your tribe dying. I prefer the OVA backstory anyways, but that doesn't really help matters in this specific regard any. Ironically... MAJOR MANGA SPOILERS, DO NOT READ IF YOU EVER THINK YOU'LL READ THE MANGA, IT'S KIND OF A BIG DEAL. ...Not that you really can, best that I can tell, since it does not appear you can find it in fan-subs from what I can tell...so basically you've only got a partial translation from those hack Ironcat guys, and only for New Vampire Princess Miyu, not the original Miyu manga.

  Reveal hidden contents

...Miyu ends up pulling the same thing on the next Guardian, as Miyu drains a pregnant woman whose child, Yui, becomes her vampiric successor after (in a clear departure from the show) Larva is forcefully separated from her and cleansed of her blood by his Western Shinma brethren and he slays her when she finds herself unable to fight him. Fittingly, Yui apparently ends up becoming an even weaker and crappier Guardian than Miyu was...though I guess she is able to devise some kind of ritual to resurrect Miyu through the blood Miyu bestowed upon her some time later, allowing the two of them to team up. Larva is eventually brought back into the fold as well. Typical anime stuff, really.

Sure would like to read wherever this (Yui + Miyu) came from, but I can't!

 

Agreed. But writers seem to often have a desire to do something NEW or WEIRD when in fact, simply greatly-written character stuff almost always trumps having your expectations subverted, .

Ooh, that would've been solid, too. Funnily, I started out hating Reiha, but as the series went on, it felt like I understood and sympathized with her point of view more and more, and she was especially proven right by the end of the series.

I believe so, especially because Miyu says during the credits of the final episode, IIRC, that Chisato can make new friends while she's sitting in the sub-plane or whatever while looking at the other orbs.

Oh man, that reminds me, all throughout the series, I was mildly chuckling at the show always doing the name-drop text for each Shinma as they were revealed, and was like "why would they even bother, these guys' names do not matter". It was all made worth it when it finally came to Chisato and she had her own name-drop, and it was simply and perfectly "CHISATO".

 

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

@Bartimaeus Good luck, 1.11 is probably the closest to the anime and will feel like rewatching the first few episodes. It really goes off the rails in 2.22, even though a lot of story beats are still retained. All things considered, you'll probably end up screaming like Joesph somewhere in the middle of that.

[Bartimaeus]

14 minutes ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

@Bartimaeus Good luck, 1.11 is probably the closest to the anime and will feel like rewatching the first few episodes. It really goes off the rails in 2.22, even though a lot of story beats are still retained. All things considered, you'll probably end up screaming like Joesph somewhere in the middle of that.

...Uh, is this another Death & Rebirth vs. Death (True) vs. Death (True)^2 issue? Because if so, a big middle finger to Hideaki "George Lucas" Anno for that, .

[Sarex]

@KP the meanie zucchini Soooooooooooooooooooooo?

Spoiler

I think the rebuild was a much more coherent telling of the Evangelion story. Not everything was ambiguous and most importantly the ****ing ending didn't blueball us.

As for the ending it self I liked it, especially because it somewhat mirrors my thinking. Plus we see Shinji growing up and leaving behind his Emo kid phase.

Also I really like that they confirmed that it's connected with the previous series and that the whole timeline was cyclical.

 

[Bartimaeus]

Why is this movie so ungoshly quiet? My goodness, I'm two minutes in here and I'm going to have to set my volume to literally the absolute max in order to hear anything. ...I could listen to it on headphones I GUESS, but then I heard Angel Attack play and well, that just seems wrong to listen to on headphones. ...Max volume and getting my ears absolutely blown out from whatever comes on after when I inevitability forget it is, I suppose.

(e): Also, the movie looks...okay. It makes me sad thinking about how good the original series looks in comparison, though, .

Spoiler

Loved hearing the original English VA for Misato again - love the three original English VAs for Misato, Rei, and Asuka. Netflix's changing of them makes me the big sad...and it seems especially weird that they would bring back the original VAs after having replaced them for that licensing, but I'm all for it.

(e): Gendo's different, though...and not as good, in my opinion. As is Ritsuko...but the key thing are our kids, I suppose.

 

Edited August 17, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[Sarex]

3 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

Why is this movie so ungoshly quiet? My goodness, I'm two minutes in here and I'm going to have to set my volume to literally the absolute max in order to hear anything. ...I could listen to it on headphones I GUESS, but then I heard Angel Attack play and well, that just seems wrong to listen to on headphones. ...Max volume and getting my ears absolutely blown out from whatever comes on after when I inevitability forget it is, I suppose.

(e): Also, the movie looks...okay. It makes me sad thinking about how good the original series look in comparison, though, .

  Reveal hidden contents

Loved hearing the English VA for Misato again, love the three original English VAs for Misato, Rei, and Asuka.

 

I don't remember it being quiet, was it quiet for you too@KP the meanie zucchini? As for the animation, well 2d is very expensive nowadays... I mourn for the 2d hand drawn technique of old.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

55 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

...Uh, is this another Death & Rebirth vs. Death (True) vs. Death (True)^2 issue? Because if so, a big middle finger to Hideaki "George Lucas" Anno for that, .

It's more **** gets weird issue.

51 minutes ago, Sarex said:

@KP the meanie zucchini Soooooooooooooooooooooo?

  Reveal hidden contents

I think the rebuild was a much more coherent telling of the Evangelion story. Not everything was ambiguous and most importantly the ****ing ending didn't blueball us.

As for the ending it self I liked it, especially because it somewhat mirrors my thinking. Plus we see Shinji growing up and leaving behind his Emo kid phase.

Also I really like that they confirmed that it's connected with the previous series and that the whole timeline was cyclical.

 

If there's one glaring failure with rebuild, it's that to really get it you have to watch the series to really get it. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, but it makes rebuild fall short of the original goal of being more accessible.

It is definitely more coherent, though compared to the congratulations and beach endings that isn't saying much. I think it is much better paced and actually tries to explain the more weird **** organically instead of just slamming us with biblical inspired scifi occultism after the mecha battles are over.

I liked that we saw Shinji grow up during his time in the village, which actually does a good job of showing how he moved on from just shutting down when things got bad. At first I thought it went on too long, but when I think about it that time seems vital to showing how the original pilots (or a clone of one in Rei's case) changed and developed. Without all of that I think the resolution Shinji has with the rest of the characters wouldn't have felt as authentic.

And of course the final mech fight was awesome. I loved how the previous scenes were made to look like movie sets. And Shinji realizing he couldn't defeat Gendo but could talk to him was a great choice. Only to find out that Gendo was just like him and that all of this was because Gendo couldn't handle his emotions was chef's kiss.

The cyclical nature was cool and it was funny see to see the original ending and logo in the background to symbolize it.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

12 minutes ago, Sarex said:

I don't remember it being quiet, was it quiet for you too@KP the meanie zucchini? As for the animation, well 2d is very expensive nowadays... I mourn for the 2d hand drawn technique of old.

I don't remember it being quiet. Maybe it's an issue with the dub.

Hand drawn becoming rarer is sad. One thing I liked about Devilman Crybaby was how it didn't use any cgi, but unfortunately it is an anomaly these days. 

[Bartimaeus]

34 minutes ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

I don't remember it being quiet. Maybe it's an issue with the dub.

Hand drawn becoming rarer is sad. One thing I liked about Devilman Crybaby was how it didn't use any cgi, but unfortunately it is an anomaly these days. 

I switched to the Japanese dub for a moment and it's mildly louder, but still pretty darn quiet. The English is like...next-level quiet, though, so that small bit does make a difference.

Spoiler

lmao I forgot how brutal Shinji's introduction to piloting was. Ye gods. Misato and Ritsuko promised to give him instruction, but were basically just like "haha, don't worry Shinji, take your time, just learn how to walk for now...oh yeah, there's a demigod just down the street and he's gonna POW KABLAMMO YER DEAD!".

 

Edited August 17, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[Sarex]

1 hour ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

I don't remember it being quiet. Maybe it's an issue with the dub.

Hand drawn becoming rarer is sad. One thing I liked about Devilman Crybaby was how it didn't use any cgi, but unfortunately it is an anomaly these days. 

I mean the last one I can think of is Redline and that was a commercial flop as it took ages to finish and get right. I think in the end they just dug too deep of a financial hole to climb out of, but from the looks of it Takeshi Koike paid the price. Which is a shame, as I would loved to see more from him.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Sarex

[Sarex]

44 minutes ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

If there's one glaring failure with rebuild, it's that to really get it you have to watch the series to really get it. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, but it makes rebuild fall short of the original goal of being more accessible.

 

  Hide contents

It is definitely more coherent, though compared to the congratulations and beach endings that isn't saying much. I think it is much better paced and actually tries to explain the more weird **** organically instead of just slamming us with biblical inspired scifi occultism after the mecha battles are over.

I liked that we saw Shinji grow up during his time in the village, which actually does a good job of showing how he moved on from just shutting down when things got bad. At first I thought it went on too long, but when I think about it that time seems vital to showing how the original pilots (or a clone of one in Rei's case) changed and developed. Without all of that I think the resolution Shinji has with the rest of the characters wouldn't have felt as authentic.

And of course the final mech fight was awesome. I loved how the previous scenes were made to look like movie sets. And Shinji realizing he couldn't defeat Gendo but could talk to him was a great choice. Only to find out that Gendo was just like him and that all of this was because Gendo couldn't handle his emotions was chef's kiss.

The cyclical nature was cool and it was funny see to see the original ending and logo in the background to symbolize it.

Yeah I would agree with that, it's not a complete experience without the original series.

Spoiler

I think he either had someone to work with him this time around to steer him in the right direction, or he just matured as a creator and we are seeing that in the movies. I personally think the former is more likely, as the movie makes a sudden shift between 'bat**** crazy' and 'let me explain some things to you'.

What did you think of the animation in the last one? I swear they used every style that exists in that movie...(and I still disliked the 3d)

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

15 minutes ago, Sarex said:

Yeah I would agree with that, it's not a complete experience without the original series.

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I think he either had someone to work with him this time around to steer him in the right direction, or he just matured as a creator and we are seeing that in the movies. I personally think the former is more likely, as the movie makes a sudden shift between 'bat**** crazy' and 'let me explain some things to you'.

What did you think of the animation in the last one? I swear they used every style that exists in that movie...(and I still disliked the 3d)

 

At first I groaned because I figured it would be a cgi cluster****. After a while I enjoyed it and loved the way the style shifted in the anti-universe. I still think hand drawn would have been better than the cgi though. At least it wasn't as bad as the recent Berserk.

[Bartimaeus]

They changed Rei's English VA. I thought...I thought all four of them were the same. About to have myself a big ol' Shinji scream right now. I can't even...

Evangelion has been cancelled until further notice. Amanda Winn-Lee is like...I can't even begin to describe how important her incredibly distinctive and perfect voice is to that character for me. Like literally, I'll probably remember that voice for the rest of my life is how distinctive and special that voice is to me. Well, I can't watch this. Wait a second...

Quote

It was suggested by Spike Spencer (her friend as well as fellow voice actor) at Nan Desu Kan 2007 that she was interested in reprising her role(s) in the upcoming Rebuild of Evangelion films. However, in May 2009, North American anime distributor Funimation announced that the role of Rei for the first film Evangelion: 1.0 You Are (Not) Alone would be voiced by Brina Palencia,^[3] who is under contract to voice Rei Ayanami for the three remaining Evangelion "Rebuild" films. However, Winn-Lee returned to voice Rei for the 2021 Amazon release of the entire Rebuild series, including the new Evangelion: 3.0+1.0 Thrice Upon a Time.

I have to get the AMAZON-specific version of this? Gosh dang it. ...Alright, well, guess I have to do that before I can watch any more. At least I have options!

Edited August 17, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

3 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

They changed Rei's English VA. I thought...I thought all four of them were the same. About to have myself a big ol' Shinji scream right now. I can't even...

Evangelion has been cancelled until further notice. Amanda Winn-Lee is like...I can't even begin to describe how important her incredibly distinctive and perfect voice is to that character for me. Like literally, I'll probably remember that voice for the rest of my life is how distinctive and special that voice is to me. Well, I can't watch this. Wait a second...

I have to get the AMAZON-specific version of this? Gosh dang it. ...Alright, well, guess I have to do that before I can watch any more. At least I have options!

[Bartimaeus]

Her voice is literally a big part of what made me want to keep watching the show after a weird and rough first few episodes that didn't really appeal at all to me. Really, I was strongly considering dropping the show...but that voice was like an angelic choir calling to me - had to figure out what was going on with her. And the fact that the other three (Shinji, Asuka, Misato) are all the same makes it all the more weird and inexplicable.

Okay, I'm watching the Amazon version now...and the entire script is different? That's really weird, but I guess I'll have to roll with it. Ritsuko was replaced again...but hey, Rei is back, and that's what matters.

(e): Yeah, so, like...this script is way worse than the original script. I just can't win...

Edited August 17, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Rebuild is causing you to scream like Joesph before it even begins. Wait until you find out that SHAVE IMPACT isn't canon.

[Bartimaeus]

1 minute ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

Rebuild is causing you to scream like Joesph before it even begins. Wait until you find out that SHAVE IMPACT isn't canon.

I'm having both play side by side right now, and it's so strange how different the voice direction and script is. Just like...Misato, has been screaming and hurling insults left and right at everything and everyone, including Shinji, in the Amazon script (which, according to the subtitles for the Japanese, is more or less accurate) - in the original English script, she's still yelling but it's a more collected and purposeful kind of yelling (instead of, you know, just sounding completely hysterical), and the insults are minimized or gone entirely. It's really weird and I'm not happy that I can't get the best of both worlds right now.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

8 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

I'm having both play side by side right now, and it's so strange how different the voice direction and script is. Just like...Misato, has been screaming and hurling insults left and right at everything and everyone, including Shinji, in the Amazon script (which, according to the subtitles for the Japanese, is more or less accurate) - in the original English script, she's still yelling but it's a more collected and purposeful kind of yelling (instead of, you know, just sounding completely hysterical), and the insults are minimized or gone entirely. It's really weird and I'm not happy that I can't get the best of both worlds right now.

There's always the sub, where Shinji is Sailor Uranus, Misato is Usagi, and DIO has a desk job.

[Bartimaeus]

I tried that for a little, but it just sounds so wrong to me. Plus, I mean...I haven't even gotten to Asuka yet, and if Amanda Winn-Lee's Rei was "(non-romantic) love at first sight", Tiffany Grant's Asuka was "I didn't like you at first, but then I couldn't live without you (but yes, in a non-romantic way)". And anyways, like I said, the actual subtitles seem to match the Amazon script more if anything, even though the original script is more what I remember the show and characters being like. So...I guess I'm just going to gut it out with Amazon...

Edited August 17, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[Sarex]

1 hour ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

 

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At first I groaned because I figured it would be a cgi cluster****. After a while I enjoyed it and loved the way the style shifted in the anti-universe. I still think hand drawn would have been better than the cgi though. At least it wasn't as bad as the recent Berserk.

 

Spoiler

Yeah, the transitions were pretty spot on. I agree, but I think hand drawn is going to be reserved for big budget movies and even then... Berserk is/was a though nut to crack as far as the anime is concerned. The story is long so it can't be a movie, the art is top tier so it's hard to follow in 2d even if the budget allows, which I doubt it did, so 3d is the only answer. They tried to do something different but it backfired magnificently.

 

[Bartimaeus]

Well, KP wasn't wrong: this does very much feel like Evangelion...for the most part. Not nearly as nice-looking as the original Evangelion, but not terrible either (it's probably, stylistically speaking, about as good as one could expect CGI to look, I suppose), and there are some actually good-looking effects/scenes too. Guess I gotta watch the second one...whatever that one's called.

Spoiler

Also, I don't know if it's because this is basically a mildly abridged rewatch, or because everything's just a little bit different this time around, but man, Shinji does not annoy me nearly as much like he did in the original show. So there is that, at least. Actually, I even teared up during Rei and his conversation atop their Evas...

(e): Oh wow, they hit me with the old "next episode preview" music after the credits. Dope.

Spoiler

No Fly Me to the Moon, but I suppose that's only to be expected.

 

Edited August 17, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

41 minutes ago, Sarex said:

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Yeah, the transitions were pretty spot on. I agree, but I think hand drawn is going to be reserved for big budget movies and even then... Berserk is/was a though nut to crack as far as the anime is concerned. The story is long so it can't be a movie, the art is top tier so it's hard to follow in 2d even if the budget allows, which I doubt it did, so 3d is the only answer. They tried to do something different but it backfired magnificently.

 

Yeah, I think any Berserk adaptation is going to be difficult to be either good or affordable. While I can see the business side argument for cgi, in terms of art it is usually worse.

8 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

KP wasn't wrong

I'm never wrong.

[Bartimaeus]

(e): Okay, just to be clear...the second one is called "2.0 YOU CAN (NOT) ADVANCE", right?

Edited August 17, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[majestic]

7 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

(e): Okay, just to be clear...the second one is called "2.0 YOU CAN (NOT) ADVANCE", right?

Can I do, I make it baby!

Woops, wrong anime. Sumimasen!

edit:

Speaking of voice actors, did you know that when Yūko Miyamura was trying to record Asuka being choked and had problems with getting the sounds out right, Megumi Ogata helpfully just started choking her while recording, and squeezed a little too hard, hurting her in the process?

edit 2:

That laugh reaction was just for the joke, the info bit was edited in later! Really!

Edited August 17, 2021 by majestic

[HoonDing]

im hooked