Anime - Do you Understannnnnnndu?

[majestic]

Why does Toga have a motorcycle all of a sudden? I... sure. By this point, everything is daijoubu with me.

[majestic]

I have two episodes of Utena left, but I think I'll call it a night. The day has been exhausting, and while it's more fun to watch Utena when your brain's a mush because nothing really bothers you about it (not even Utena finding out about Anthy's late night, uhm, activities) and it doesn't matter at all if things happen for no real reason.

I don't think any saving throw in the world will rescue that ending.

edit:

I just realized the first paragraph simply ends. I'll leave it like that, it really proves my point. Good night guys, the TV thread's been a riot. Sort of. Could have done without the Pegasus part.

@KP the meanie zucchini have you decided on Utena yet?

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by majestic

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

10 minutes ago, majestic said:

I have two episodes of Utena left, but I think I'll call it a night. The day has been exhausting, and while it's more fun to watch Utena when your brain's a mush because nothing really bothers you about it (not even Utena finding out about Anthy's late night, uhm, activities) and it doesn't matter at all if things happen for no real reason.

I don't think any saving throw in the world will rescue that ending.

edit:

I just realized the first paragraph simply ends. I'll leave it like that, it really proves my point. Good night guys, the TV thread's been a riot. Sort of. Could have done without the Pegasus part.

@KP the meanie zucchini have you decided on Utena yet?

 

Yes. I will watch it.....sometime in the future. I've got a yuge backlog of stuff to get through. Rubber Soul, asking for understannnnnnnnnnnnnnnndingu.

[majestic]

8 minutes ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

Yes. I will watch it.....sometime in the future. I've got a yuge backlog of stuff to get through. Rubber Soul, asking for understannnnnnnnnnnnnnnndingu.

Yeah, tell me about it. Not all of that is stuff I'm looking forward to. Looking at you, Sailor Moon manga. Kinda hoping the live action Sailor Moon keeps being as goofy as it began, that might be some comedy gold then.

Also really need to catch up on some live action stuff.

And sleep. So much sleep. Night, for realsies now.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, majestic said:

Yeah, tell me about it. Not all of that is stuff I'm looking forward to. Looking at you, Sailor Moon manga. Kinda hoping the live action Sailor Moon keeps being as goofy as it began, that might be some comedy gold then.

Also really need to catch up on some live action stuff.

And sleep. So much sleep. Night, for realsies now.

Speaking of live action Sailor Moon

Tuxedo Mullet gets outclassed by DIO, because his mullet can't implant flesh buds into people. Araki made sure DIO's mullet was the ultimate mullet way back in the 80's. Talk about planning ahead.

[majestic]

19 hours ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

Speaking of live action Sailor Moon

 

  Hide contents

Tuxedo Mullet gets outclassed by DIO, because his mullet can't implant flesh buds into people. Araki made sure DIO's mullet was the ultimate mullet way back in the 80's. Talk about planning ahead.

 

But mullets were all the rage in the 80ies, ultimate or not. Being Tuxedo Mullet in the earls 2000s takes some steel balls.

Spoiler

Like JoJo's balls.

 

Utena 38:

Spoiler

I'm not suprised that Anthy stabbed Utena, but I have no idea what's going on or why. Time for the finale, and then the movie.

Yay...

[majestic]

Now only the movie is left, but I don't... nah, not going to do that one now. Lali-ho!

Normally I'd post about what I've just seen now, but I'll sleep over it.

 

The door reminded me of the Door in Charlie the Unicorn, episode three.

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

7 minutes ago, majestic said:

Now only the movie is left, but I don't... nah, not going to do that one now. Lali-ho!

Normally I'd post about what I've just seen now, but I'll sleep over it.

 

The door reminded me of the Door in Charlie the Unicorn, episode three.

 

Lali-ho! Kakyoin and Polnareff at the amusement park. 

[Bartimaeus]

45 minutes ago, majestic said:

I have no idea what's going on or why

Feel free to do some research after you've finished everything and then write up a short essay for me once you've figured it out, because the movie sucked all will to care out of me, .

In other news, my other party wanted to watch Nadia: Secret of Blue Water next, and I was like HELL NO, I need something silly and lighthearted in between that and Utena first. So now I'm five episodes into Legendary Idol Eriko, and it's...more old-fashioned than I would've expected? In terms of dialogue, writing, pacing - it feels 10 years Ranma 1/2's senior, more like something I'd expect to watch that came out in the late 70s/early 80s in that it's very direct, relatively simple, characters are certain expected archetypes, etc. But I'm still enjoying it, it's not an endless nightmare like the second half of Utena, so there is that. Although it's been less lighthearted than I expected...some relatively broad spoilers for the first five episodes:

Spoiler

The very first episode, Eriko is a bright, innocent schoolgirl being brought up by two extremely loving and empathetic parents, and Eriko is not even interested in doing anything more than just singing for fun. Her father is the president of an idol company (totally coincidentally!) and doesn't seem to want that kind of life for Eriko - all of that changes when both of her parents are suddenly killed while driving to an important work conference where Eriko had been dutifully awaiting them. Upon hearing the news, Eriko's uncle secretly celebrates his brother's death, as it allows him to seize control of the company and finally get out of his brother's shadow; then he starts living in Eriko's home while professing the need to care of her, while treating the help like garbage, and the first thing he does is to destroy and throw away all of Eriko's parents possessions - all of them. He's also physically abusive with Eriko herself (...no, not like that, majestic - get Utena out of your brain!), and pushes her into becoming an idol and to debut as fast as possible - basically to capitalize off of recent publicity surrounding her and her family. Her uncle seemingly keeps a mistress(?) who is an idol has-been that is interfering with Eriko's idol training with the apparent intent of making Eriko kill herself. She is not allowed to leave her room unsupervised - a guard stands by at all times, and so she is a prisoner of her own home. It's been a little darker than I expected, but I assume things will have to resolve themselves and starting look up before too long.

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[majestic]

7 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

In other news, my other party wanted to watch Nadia: Secret of Blue Water next, and I was like HELL NO, I need something silly and lighthearted in between that and Utena first. So now I'm five episodes into...

Well aren't you a tease. I almost thought you'd watch some CCS there.

Also, yikes, that doesn't sound lighthearted at all. More like the polar opposite. Maybe I'll try that after JoJo's done. And the, uhm, Tuxedo Mullet.

edit:

Wait, I overread "other party" so that makes sense. Ah, well...

Edited July 27, 2021 by majestic

[Bartimaeus]

13 minutes ago, majestic said:

Well aren't you a tease. I almost thought you'd watch some CCS there.

Also, yikes, that doesn't sound lighthearted at all. More like the polar opposite. Maybe I'll try that after JoJo's done. And the, uhm, Tuxedo Mullet.

Yeah, I'm not sure what the mental block with CCS is - when I muster up the energy and motivation, it always continues to be the most amazing show that I utterly adore, but for some reason, it's so difficult to get past that. I think I'll have more in me next week to get a few episodes done.

The plot has been relatively dark and certainly much more serious than I expected, but it doesn't feel as dark as you might necessarily expect based on how I described it. In addition to the show just feeling more old-fashioned than you might expect (in terms of tone and style, it really feels more like something closer to...say, Heidi than like...Sailor Moon, if that makes any sense), I think the biggest thing that prevents it from feeling more dark is that the uncle is like moustache-twirlingly evil while also being an utter baboon, and I would bet my life on him biting it in some way sooner or later here because this just cannot stand. Oh, and here's the intro if you want to watch it (note: watch in video player, not browser, because my video recorder decided to encode in x265 instead of x264 and apparently neither Firefox nor Chrome know how to play x265 or at least neither of mine do): https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/tft08mgc1oe0l8c/OSwMO1UqEr.mp4

I certainly didn't expect all this terrible stuff to happen right away with a silly, gentle intro like that, .

(e): On top of x265 not playing in browsers, it appears to be a little choppy - I see some funky chugging and frame skipping in that recording. Grr!

Edited July 27, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[majestic]

  One other thing, watching the odd episode of Violet Evergarden has made me click on a YT video of a pair who just started to watch the episodes and does these weirdo reaction videos. I find myself enjoying them for some reason. They're just at episode two now. Hah. Well...

Spoiler

That's mostly sadism. Can't wait to see how they react to 8 and 9. Or 10. Heh. They're already rather emotional in their reponses to her. *cackle*

I realized something in re-watching a few episodes here and there.

This just really pushes all the right buttons for me. It just works, in spite - or maybe because of - the melodramatic elements that are present. In the original sense of the word, not the pejorative it's become now (and if you don't like melodrama why would you watch anime in the first place? It feeds off of it!).

And... I've come to the conclusion that I really hate the ending of the movie, and what the worst part about that is, if you'd pick any random ten thousand people who liked the anime, the specials and the film and ask them, 9999 of them would say the ending was great. That really feels like a "me" thing.

It's worse even because prior to that it looks like the ending will surpass every expectation I had until it then simply does... what it does.

*sigh*

13 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

Yeah, I'm not sure what the mental block with CCS is - when I muster up the energy and motivation, it always continues to be the most amazing show that I utterly adore, but for some reason, it's so difficult to get past that. I think I'll have more in me next week to get a few episodes done.

I wish I could say I have no idea what you mean, but I get that too, from time to time. I'm still not done with Agents of SHIELD, and I love that show (I've mentioned it once or twice). The last season started super strong and was fun, and I just... dunno. Can't get myself to watch, and that's with every other part of my brain screaming to simply finish it.

Meanwhile I have an active desire to watch the rest of Love Live!. Whatever the hell is wrong with me.

Eh, I could provide some external pressure. I'll just post an unmarked spoiler every day you don't watch an episode!

definitely not a spoiler:

Spoiler

Although that would probably just put me on your ignore list.

Also not a spoiler:

Spoiler

Would never do that, anyway. So that's a threat as empty as space.

 

 

20 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

The plot has been relatively dark and certainly much more serious than I expected, but it doesn't feel as dark as you might necessarily expect based on how I described it. In addition to the show just feeling more old-fashioned than you might expect (in terms of tone and style, it really feels more like something closer to...say, Heidi than like...Sailor Moon, if that makes any sense),

Watching that intro that makes perfect sense. That produced an insane amount of nostalgia just from the intro, and I haven't even seen the show.

39 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

I think the biggest thing that prevents it from feeling more dark is that the uncle is like moustache-twirlingly evil while also being an utter baboon, and I would bet my life on him biting it in some way sooner or later here because this just cannot stand.

Well that makes it even more appealing. Heh.

[majestic]

PORNAREFFU and Sherry, on the island.

That was certainly an unexpected departure from the usual and suddenly turned serious. PORNAREFFU also proves - once again - that he's a "bit" of a nincompoop. 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, majestic said:

PORNAREFFU and Sherry, on the island.

That was certainly an unexpected departure from the usual and suddenly turned serious. PORNAREFFU also proves - once again - that he's a "bit" of a nincompoop. 

Just you wait. HELL 2 U.

[majestic]

19 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Feel free to do some research after you've finished everything and then write up a short essay for me once you've figured it out, because the movie sucked all will to care out of me, .

Without having seen the movie (that will most likely happen tonight) or doing any research, a shortish guess after sleeping on it:

Spoiler

Being in a coffin is the show's metaphor for being stuck, or living in memories, or not being able to let go of the past, or let go of unhealthy obsessions. In essence, not being free, a prison for and of your own mind. Toga continously says that everyone is still in their coffins. This is also why Anthy says that they're still the same. She's not being contrarian, but more on that later.

Dios, or Past!Akio, never truly freed Utena from her coffin. She got out of thinking that life is a waste when you live just to die anyway, but replaced one prison of the mind with another, becoming a prince to save the Witch (Himemiya, or whatever her name really was or is) she was shown by Dios. That probably was deliberate on his part to gain her as potential duelist in the future.

The coffins are the prisons of the characters, and they initially refer to them as the world's shell (insofar that's really similar to the ending of Neon Genesis Evangelion where the world cracks and Shinji is "reborn" free of his problems). They fight the duels to crack it, but the duels were never about freeing them, but about freeing Akio from his prison - the power of Dios that he lost when Anthy did... something to protect him. Anthy is on the other hand in her coffin because she loves her brother.

Anthy stabs Utena because she thinks a girl cannot be her prince. Utena cannot replace the love she has for Akio, or what Akio once was.

Akio cannot unseal the Rose Door to find his old self because he constantly tries to manipulate others into doing the work for him, and ultimately he doesn't defeat Utena in the duel, and he would not have anyway, she was clearly winning when Anthy ended the duel for him (he also just takes her sword, and never cuts off her rose). But freeing yourself from your mind's prison takes action born of yourself, not others. Hence, Akio cannot unseal the door, but Utena, after positively crawling there in spite of her wounds (both physically or mentally, or perhaps just the latter) can.

For Utena, it is Anthy's coffin that is behind the door, not the power of Dios, not the power to bring the world revolution, or whatever - just the very thing she aspires to. Save Himemiya, become a prince. She opens Utena's coffin but fails to save her. Utena fails to become the prince she wants to be, but she realizes that she cannot be truly be a prince anyway, and therefore in her failure, she still "wins", she is free of the coffin she was in. She doesn't need to be a prince for Himemiya. It's enough to love her. 

Anthy is free too, because she realizes that she loves Utena, and that is enough to let go of Akio.

That is why Utena is gone from the Ohtori Academy afterwards, and Anthy leaves too. They're free now. The others? No, not yet. They still have a way to go. That is what Anthy meant that they're still the same. If they weren't, if they truly were free, they'd also be gone. Nanami got the closest, I think, after being shocked into realizing that she doesn't want Toga in the same way Anthy wants (well, and has, ugh ) Akio. That's why she takes off the ring and says "I'm done with that", but she isn't exactly. Not fully.

The open question is... is the Ohtori Academy a purgatory* for those who died and cannot move on yet? Is everyone there dead, and they disappear after moving on, because Anthy called that going to a "different" world, and Toga said they're still in coffins? Ruka** disappeared after his attempt to free Jury, and for a while it looked like it. Mikage*** disappeared after letting go of the past. Wakabe's childhood friend was never seen again after he realized that she doesn't love him.

Or is it something else? I'm kind of leaning towards moving on after dying, but the Academy seems to be a place that at least partially exists in the real world, because outsiders come to visit, but even they might not truly come and go from the real world. His fiancee is obsessed with Himemiya and her mother has an affair with the soon to be son-in-law.

*The Academy might be both real and purgatory. However that works.

**Ruka is in fact the strongest case for this being purgatory, because the shadows mention he was hospitalized and died, but there's nothing that happened in the show that would indicate this. Other than a past injury he has clearly overcome by the time he fights his duel not to win Anthy, but to free Jury, or free himself of the burden of having failed to help Jury surpass him. Either works.

***Mikage potentially died in the fire or soon after.

Shortish. Yeah, right.

 

[Lexx]

Watched the new He-Man. Not bad, but sadly a bit too short.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, Lexx said:

Watched the new He-Man. Not bad, but sadly a bit too short.

A bit too short? It's five episodes and ends in the most sequel bait way possible. I liked it but wish they would have finished the season.

[Bartimaeus]

1 hour ago, majestic said:

Without having seen the movie (that will most likely happen tonight) or doing any research, a shortish guess after sleeping on it:

  Hide contents

Being in a coffin is the show's metaphor for being stuck, or living in memories, or not being able to let go of the past, or let go of unhealthy obsessions. In essence, not being free, a prison for and of your own mind. Toga continously says that everyone is still in their coffins. This is also why Anthy says that they're still the same. She's not being contrarian, but more on that later.

Dios, or Past!Akio, never truly freed Utena from her coffin. She got out of thinking that life is a waste when you live just to die anyway, but replaced one prison of the mind with another, becoming a prince to save the Witch (Himemiya, or whatever her name really was or is) she was shown by Dios. That probably was deliberate on his part to gain her as potential duelist in the future.

The coffins are the prisons of the characters, and they initially refer to them as the world's shell (insofar that's really similar to the ending of Neon Genesis Evangelion where the world cracks and Shinji is "reborn" free of his problems). They fight the duels to crack it, but the duels were never about freeing them, but about freeing Akio from his prison - the power of Dios that he lost when Anthy did... something to protect him. Anthy is on the other hand in her coffin because she loves her brother.

Anthy stabs Utena because she thinks a girl cannot be her prince. Utena cannot replace the love she has for Akio, or what Akio once was.

Akio cannot unseal the Rose Door to find his old self because he constantly tries to manipulate others into doing the work for him, and ultimately he doesn't defeat Utena in the duel, and he would not have anyway, she was clearly winning when Anthy ended the duel for him (he also just takes her sword, and never cuts off her rose). But freeing yourself from your mind's prison takes action born of yourself, not others. Hence, Akio cannot unseal the door, but Utena, after positively crawling there in spite of her wounds (both physically or mentally, or perhaps just the latter) can.

For Utena, it is Anthy's coffin that is behind the door, not the power of Dios, not the power to bring the world revolution, or whatever - just the very thing she aspires to. Save Himemiya, become a prince. She opens Utena's coffin but fails to save her. Utena fails to become the prince she wants to be, but she realizes that she cannot be truly be a prince anyway, and therefore in her failure, she still "wins", she is free of the coffin she was in. She doesn't need to be a prince for Himemiya. It's enough to love her. 

Anthy is free too, because she realizes that she loves Utena, and that is enough to let go of Akio.

That is why Utena is gone from the Ohtori Academy afterwards, and Anthy leaves too. They're free now. The others? No, not yet. They still have a way to go. That is what Anthy meant that they're still the same. If they weren't, if they truly were free, they'd also be gone. Nanami got the closest, I think, after being shocked into realizing that she doesn't want Toga in the same way Anthy wants (well, and has, ugh ) Akio. That's why she takes off the ring and says "I'm done with that", but she isn't exactly. Not fully.

The open question is... is the Ohtori Academy a purgatory* for those who died and cannot move on yet? Is everyone there dead, and they disappear after moving on, because Anthy called that going to a "different" world, and Toga said they're still in coffins? Ruka** disappeared after his attempt to free Jury, and for a while it looked like it. Mikage*** disappeared after letting go of the past. Wakabe's childhood friend was never seen again after he realized that she doesn't love him.

Or is it something else? I'm kind of leaning towards moving on after dying, but the Academy seems to be a place that at least partially exists in the real world, because outsiders come to visit, but even they might not truly come and go from the real world. His fiancee is obsessed with Himemiya and her mother has an affair with the soon to be son-in-law.

*The Academy might be both real and purgatory. However that works.

**Ruka is in fact the strongest case for this being purgatory, because the shadows mention he was hospitalized and died, but there's nothing that happened in the show that would indicate this. Other than a past injury he has clearly overcome by the time he fights his duel not to win Anthy, but to free Jury, or free himself of the burden of having failed to help Jury surpass him. Either works.

***Mikage potentially died in the fire or soon after.

Shortish. Yeah, right.

 

Thanks for the write-up, all of that makes sense and seems like a good way to interpret what was intended. In regards to Ohtori, I think it doesn't really matter what it is, to be honest - kind of besides the point, I think, .

[Lexx]

8 minutes ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

A bit too short? It's five episodes and ends in the most sequel bait way possible. I liked it but wish they would have finished the season.

I'm curious why they are releasing this as "part 1" - maybe they were unsure if people would like it and thus released just a bit at first instead of a whole season? Or maybe part 2 would have needed so much time that they didn't want to wait for it any longer?

[Amentep]

I can only suspect that Netflix needed something to come out now but there was no way all the episodes would be done in time to release the whole thing now.

[bugarup]

3 hours ago, majestic said:

Without having seen the movie (that will most likely happen tonight) or doing any research, a shortish guess after sleeping on it:

 

Nice summary. Way deeper than one I had when I finished it. 

 

[majestic]

1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said:

Thanks for the write-up, all of that makes sense and seems like a good way to interpret what was intended. In regards to Ohtori, I think it doesn't really matter what it is, to be honest - kind of besides the point, I think, .

 

Spoiler

Like a lot in this anime, it both does and does not. It doesn't matter for the interpretation of the events but it is a curiosity to think and debate about, because there's a case to be made for either. It's one of these interpretations that are only tangentially related to what's going on, but equally valid and problematic.

Like what really happened in "Her Story", did you play that by the way? "Play" is maybe a strong word here. If not, beware of spoilers, but...

Spoiler

There's the backstory of the twin sisters. They're clearly meant to be twins, so the police is, unknown to them, interrogating two seperate people. They also have two distinct personalities, so you eventually start noticing who is who. The question that doesn't matter but is really interesting to debate about is whether or not there actually is a real twin, or if she has dissociative personality disorder. There is also a chance that there actually was a twin - or at least a very close sister - that died in her childhood, either due to an accident or because the current persona drowned her out of jealousy and then incorporated her personality to deal with the loss.

It's not the point of the story, the point is that she's pregnant and killed her husband, or otherwise her sister got pregnant because she "seduced" her husband (by pretending to be her). Well, one of them did, anyway, and the other is providing the alibi. Either interpretation is "valid" insofar as either isn't fully compatible with the stories the two tell. The hidden twin one would require the hidden twin to have been separated from the mother after birth and then to have lived for a long stretch of time in the attic of the house, hidden from the parents living there, and there's a story one of them tells how they were in a hospital and were then driven home - curiously without anyone noticing that there are two girls.

The split personality theory doesn't explain how the fingerprints between the two don't seem to match up (unless the police botched the investigation) or how they seemingly were at two locations at once.

They're kind of equally unlikely. The idea that she killed her sister is a bit outlandish and only supported by a song she brings up and sings for no real reason, and the implication that she actually poisoned her parents with mushrooms.

edit:

It matters, I think, in order to understand the nature of the shadowplays. If Ohtori is a purgatory or hall of souls of some kind, then the shadows might fall into it from the outside, rather than being something on the inside. Maybe that's why they're alien shadows. They're literally not part of the world?

 

edit 2:
 

Spoiler

Now that I think of it, the shadows only turned into aliens after the first arc was finished and the Black Rose arc started, right? That's about the time when clearly dead characters that never age started showing up, and then disappear. If Ohtori is not purgatory, then it at least can reflect the realm of the dead and project it into reality in some form. Hence the whole Mikage Seminar and how it disappeared from everyone's mind again.

Whatever else that might mean, the Mikage Seminar disappearing like that pretty much confirms the idea that moving on removes you from the Academy and the minds of the people there.

 

edit 3:

I also felt a lot like Charlie does while watching this anime. Here's the full episode, just in case someone here hasn't seen it.

The others are good too, but three is clearly the best. Feel free to disagree, but know that you're wrong.

Edited July 28, 2021 by majestic

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, Lexx said:

I'm curious why they are releasing this as "part 1" - maybe they were unsure if people would like it and thus released just a bit at first instead of a whole season? Or maybe part 2 would have needed so much time that they didn't want to wait for it any longer?

I doubt we'll ever know for sure, in any case it's an abrupt break. I want my cyborg cultist cyclops Henry Rollins god damn it.

[majestic]

This Utena movie is... not what I expected so far. Oh dear.

This very quickly turned squickier than the anime.

Spoiler

Toga's personality makes a good deal of sense with a background like that, assuming this alternate reality is somehow related to the anime.

Is Utena Nanami here? That's so confusing.

Utena and Himemiya are dancing, and their reflections look like their series counterparts. Score one for the idea that the Academy is really a reflection of something else. Whatever that might indicate? I have no idea.

Nanami is a cow again. Sure movie, whatever.

 

Edited July 28, 2021 by majestic

[majestic]

Wait, wat... is...

is...

Spoiler

Was Akio drugging his sister there and she, what, ugh, oh come on.

The boy that drowned trying to save a girl was Toga? But... wasn't that Jury who told the story in the anime? I honestly have issues remembering, that was one of the episodes I watched in mushy brain mode.

Anyway, that movie seems all but to confirm that Anime-Ohtori Acedemy is a realm of the dead, at least in some way.

If this is a simile and reflection of the events of the anime, does that mean Jury and Utena are sisters, and Toga died saving one, or the other? Juri says elder sister in the anime, but Utena is clearly younger.

How confusing.

Did Akio pull Utena from the water? Is that what happened? But... but... huh. What.

edit:

Spoiler

So, yeah. Utena and Anthy killed the prince, and raced away. I think that just confirms the idea that they both had to overcome their princes - Dios and Akio (who were different but the same) to move on. Move on to whatever. The End of the World. The apocalypse, or the AI uprising, whatever. Maybe Ohtori is the Matrix.

 

Edited July 28, 2021 by majestic