Anime - coasting on emotion rollers

[Bartimaeus]

SU:

Spoiler

I initially ran into the same problem with you regarding Garnet and Pearl - I thought *Pearl* was the leader for a while (and for a while, I mean for probably like half or a little more of season 1). Boy, did that turn out to be wrong...but also, actually a little right as well, as Garnet so eloquently points out in season 2 when they're about to be crushed to death: Garnet, Pearl, and Steven each have their different strengths that make them leaders in different situations. Uh, Amethyst, not so much sadly, but that's okay - she at least learns to lead herself over the course of the series. Well, actually, there are a few moments throughout the series where she takes the reins, but usually only for something short and silly like the "DOGPILE!" moment where she'd turned into a helicopter, . Also, the reality is that the "Steven experience" was a whole new thing for them, and as Amethyst said during The Test, they had no idea what they're doing or should be doing or what their relationships/roles towards him would be, so it kind of makes sense that they don't always act as guardians - it happened even to Pearl during her more unhinged moments.

I don't think it's ever made clear when Amethyst joined the Crystal Gems. It was hundreds of years after the Rebellion ended at least, but it could've easily been more like thousands of years - it's also possible she hadn't been going on missions for very long at all before Steven arrived (actually, wait, now that I think about it, she literally was guarding the fence they had outside the temple while the others were busy, so that's quite plausible). From what she said, her relationship was strongest with Rose Quartz, not Pearl or Garnet - she was always a bit childlike, but maybe she became even more irreverent and mentally closed when she died.

In contrast to you, I initially really liked Usagi (not that I much ever related to her, mind you), and grew to like her less in comparison to the other 4, particularly when we hit R and a whole bunch of stupid stuff hit off between her and Mamoru and Chibi-Usa. A lot of that was Mamoru's fault (there's probably a reason I still like season 1 Mamoru the best), but a lot of it was still her behavior as well. Then we hit S and she actually developed over the course of the season while resolving those issues, but by the end of R, Minako had already become my favorite and S just made it even more so (and also I still liked at least Rei over her as well...although Sailor Stars really has been Usagi's season - she's been the best out of everyone so far).

As for SuperS...let me turn it over to Commander Riker here:

 

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[Bartimaeus]

Oh, also, SU animation - what the hell is this?

A few episodes later...

Heck, even within the same episode:

These are the same art team? Somehow, I don't freaking think so. Even just like the shape of Pearl's head/hair, or where her gem is, changes a lot as the different artists take over from each other.

Edited April 17, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Maybe Pearl's neck and nose can elongate and contract?

[Bartimaeus]

If it was Amethyst, you could maybe that excuse. But the reality is, pretty much every character suffers from huge animation inconsistencies: years back, I looked at a sheet someone had compiled of each major character from each of the major artists, and it was pretty wacky to see how different each character looked depending on who was doing it.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Given Pearl's narrow and sharp/angular features, I'd imagine she is the most inconsistent. Garnet and Amethyst look the same in all images while Pearl does look different in every image.

I'm not too bothered by it because different artists have different styles and because I haven't thought anything looked absolutely hideous so far.

[Bartimaeus]

Here are a couple of examples I found:

And that's not even mentioning proportions (both their own bodies as well as relative to other characters) and heights, which are constantly out of whack.

For majestic, a comparison of Connie, who is very badly affected at points (unfortunately uses a picture from S2, although not particularly spoilerish):
 

Spoiler

 

vs. her initial appearance:

What in the world happened, guys?

 

What's weird is I prefer characters from different art styles: Jeff & Joe's Pearl, Lauren & Hillary's Garnet, either of those two teams' Amethysts...but both of their Steven's look the two worst versions out of all four teams to me. I don't know who made that Connie monstrosity, but it is borderline unforgivable to me.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

@BartimaeusThe only one I really dislike is the Lamar and Katie Pearl. It makes Pearl look like she's balding lmao.

I watched a bloc this morning. The gym episode, fire salts, time travel, and the return of the centipede.

[majestic]

10 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

I don't know who made that Connie monstrosity, but it is borderline unforgivable to me.

Woha, I had already forgotten about  repressed that.

Minor otherwise really useless spoiler:

Spoiler

I forgot to mention that I really didn't like Connie's new haircut. Characers aren't supposed to get new hairdos, dammit, at least Sailor Moon knew that!

 

3 minutes ago, ArtistFormerlyKnownasKP said:

I watched a bloc this morning. The gym episode, fire salts, time travel, and the return of the centipede.

You're really close now to a few episodes that... well, let's say they're going to be... you'll see!

[Bartimaeus]

I wish I could repress that. There are times she looks like she's literally about half the age she's supposed to be...and actually, that happens a bit to Steven as well. The show got too anime!

Spoiler

I actually like the haircut, but of course, I'm always of the opinion that shoulder length (or less) hair is both objectively and subjectively better in every way compared to anything longer,.

Pearl changing from the ballerina outfit, on the other hand...

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

31 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

I'm always of the opinion that shoulder length (or less) hair is both objectively and subjectively better in every way compared to anything longer

Apologize to Greg Universe and Tuxedo Mullet now.

[majestic]

2 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

SU:

  Hide contents

I initially ran into the same problem with you regarding Garnet and Pearl - I thought *Pearl* was the leader for a while (and for a while, I mean for probably like half or a little more of season 1). Boy, did that turn out to be wrong...but also, actually a little right as well, as Garnet so eloquently points out in season 2 when they're about to be crushed to death: Garnet, Pearl, and Steven each have their different strengths that make them leaders in different situations. Uh, Amethyst, not so much sadly, but that's okay - she at least learns to lead herself over the course of the series. Well, actually, there are a few moments throughout the series where she takes the reins, but usually only for something short and silly like the "DOGPILE!" moment where she'd turned into a helicopter, . Also, the reality is that the "Steven experience" was a whole new thing for them, and as Amethyst said during The Test, they had no idea what they're doing or should be doing or what their relationships/roles towards him would be, so it kind of makes sense that they don't always act as guardians - it happened even to Pearl during her more unhinged moments.

I don't think it's ever made clear when Amethyst joined the Crystal Gems. It was hundreds of years after the Rebellion ended at least, but it could've easily been more like thousands of years - it's also possible she hadn't been going on missions for very long at all before Steven arrived (actually, wait, now that I think about it, she literally was guarding the fence they had outside the temple while the others were busy, so that's quite plausible). From what she said, her relationship was strongest with Rose Quartz, not Pearl or Garnet - she was always a bit childlike, but maybe she became even more irreverent and mentally closed when she died.

In contrast to you, I initially really liked Usagi (not that I much ever related to her, mind you), and grew to like her less in comparison to the other 4, particularly when we hit R and a whole bunch of stupid stuff hit off between her and Mamoru and Chibi-Usa. A lot of that was Mamoru's fault (there's probably a reason I still like season 1 Mamoru the best), but a lot of it was still her behavior as well. Then we hit S and she actually developed over the course of the season while resolving those issues, but by the end of R, Minako had already become my favorite and S just made it even more so (and also I still liked at least Rei over her as well...although Sailor Stars really has been Usagi's season - she's been the best out of everyone so far).

 

Fun fact, Beyond Belief: Fact or Fiction ran on our TV stations under the title "X-Factor" - imagine my confusion when I found out that talking about X Factor on the internet made people think of casting shows instead of Commander Riker telling us whether silly coincidences that were believed to be magic actually happened or not.

The show is also responsible for one of the hardest laughs I ever had watching TV, there's an episode where a couple talked to another one how lucky they got after their wedding - they were supposed to board the RMS Lusitania to go on their honeymoon, but their wedding bands got messed up over night and had to be repaired, so they missed boarding the ship. The other couple they talked to were all like: "Wow, you had such luck with that, OH MY GOD!" and then the camera pans out to reveal that they're all on the LZ 129 with the Statue of Liberty visible in the distant background.

Sadly that was one of the "NOs", but you can't have everything. It was also probably not intended to be funny, but hey... almost felt Final Destination-ish. If that didn't come out before Final Destination. Which it probably did. Or not. It's not even that easy to find out because another fun fact, the show was so much more popular in Germany that new episodes premiered there. Season three in particular aired in '99 here, while way later in 2000 on FOX.

More SUish spoilers mixed in:
 

Spoiler

 

Oh, good, so I wasn't the only one who was surprised by Garnet being considered the leader. I wish SU would have been a bit clearer on the timeline. Not long before the birthday episode happened I was actively wondering how this is all supposed to fit, because Flashback!Greg looks about 30 years younger than the current one, but Steven looks like he's Chibi-Usa. Turns out he actually is Chibi-Usa, sort of. Just not 900... but 14 already. It was also a bit weird at first that Greg was so absent when it came to the "Steven experience" as you call it. But that was explained too, what with the history between him and Pearl.

Going to repeat myself here while talking about Usagi in R:

When it comes to R and Usagi, if there's something I've learned from watching Sailor Moon Crystal that could have been a lot worse. During R's breakup scene when Usagi's under incredible emotional strain she accuses Mamoru of liking Chibi-Usa more than her (well, accuses is a strong term, she wonders if he likes Chibi-Usa more than her), to which he says the same thing he does in Crystal: Don't be ridiculous.

In Crystal however, Usagi has absolutely no excuse for her behaviour towards Chibi-Usa, who doesn't even act like a brat, while in R she actively teases Usagi for getting dumped. She's scared, alone and doesn't know what to do. The scene with Usagi happens after Mamoru picks Chibi-Usa up from running around alone. Usagi accuses (for real, this time) Mamoru of liking Chibi-Usa more than her, he says that she's being ridiculous because Chibi-Usa is a child, and Usagi doubles down on that by saying: Child or not, she's still a woman.

Mamoru's response there is to go and kiss her and then the scene happens that very strongly implies that they have sex (quite possibly the first time for either of them). The worst part is that Usagi spends a couple of scenes being OK with Chibi-Usa around after that until she suddenly starts being jealous and ridiculous again.

I have no idea what the intention here was. It's probably part of what Naoko Takeuchi meant when she says she can't believe what she wrote, because Usagi in the Black Moon arc is so terrible at times you have to wonder if she wasn't written to be hated, not just disliked, and I can't believe any of that was intentional.

There's also this massively mysogynistic depiction of Usagi as the sexually frustrated young woman that is hysterical all day long until that frustration is released by a man. I'm sure that this one at least wasn't intentional. The scene was supposed to depict Mamoru showing Usagi that he cares for her in a different way than he does for Chibi-Usa, but the implication is... really unfortunate, and made worse by Usagi reverting back to petty jealousy shortly afterwards.

I don't know if the breakup in R was added to give Usagi an excuse for her behaviour towards Chibi-Usa or for them to be able to drag this out for the rest of the season until the storyline reveal that Chibi-Usa is their daughter. Either way, while it's not good and still makes all the characters involved look like douchewaffles, at least it's not nearly as bad as Usagi was in the Black Moon arc.

That's not even talking about the entire incest angle. I'm still surprised they let her keep that in when the editor supposedly insisted on making several changes otherwise. Geez.

And about Usagi in Sailor Stars... like I said, Usagi might be at her strongest in this season (until the end maybe, looks like I'm going to find out soon what you think of the finale ). It's fortunate, because otherwise all the time spent with her and Seiya would be a waste.

 

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

21 minutes ago, majestic said:

imagine my confusion when I found out that talking about X Factor on the internet made people think of casting shows instead of Commander Riker telling us whether silly coincidences that were believed to be magic actually happened or not.

 

[InsaneCommander]

6 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Episode 20:

  Hide contents

Nobody seems to really care or think about Chibi-Chibi just being there. Guess it's because she's not really doing anything and is mostly keeping to herself - Chibi-Usa made a hell of a lot more waves when she arrived, that's for sure.

 

 

Spoiler

Usagi's mom thinks Chibi Chibi is her daughter, so she is doing something: mindcontrol.

 

[InsaneCommander]

Madoka episodes 7-9:

 

Spoiler

 

First of all, rewatching the third episode I couldn’t see any indication that *Mami* survived. She transformed back and her spell on Homura disappeared so the witch probably destroyed Mami’s gem with the initial bite. Whatever was left was eaten shortly after, so there wouldn’t be a way to regenerate the... husk.

 

Kyubey: “I simply asked you to become magical girls. But you could say I left some things out.” Yes, nothing important, right?

 

He even dared use the “you didn’t ask” when Sayaka was pissed.

 

And... he is torturing her now.

 

Kyubey: Sayaka is cursed now.

Sakura: And who do you think is to blame for that?

 

I started wondering if witches were magical girls who couldn’t purify their gems? Confirmed. Time travel too. And Kyubey being the villain.

 

Kyubey: “It’s Science”. Mother******!

 

Madoka could wish that no one ever becomes a magical girl again. Not sure what will happen with any Witches left though...

 

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

9 minutes ago, InsaneCommander said:

Madoka episodes 7-9:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

First of all, rewatching the third episode I couldn’t see any indication that *Mami* survived. She transformed back and her spell on Homura disappeared so the witch probably destroyed Mami’s gem with the initial bite. Whatever was left was eaten shortly after, so there wouldn’t be a way to regenerate the... husk.

 

Kyubey: “I simply asked you to become magical girls. But you could say I left some things out.” Yes, nothing important, right?

 

He even dared use the “you didn’t ask” when Sayaka was pissed.

 

And... he is torturing her now.

 

Kyubey: Sayaka is cursed now.

Sakura: And who do you think is to blame for that?

 

I started wondering if witches were magical girls who couldn’t purify their gems? Confirmed. Time travel too. And Kyubey being the villain.

 

Kyubey: “It’s Science”. Mother******!

 

Madoka could wish that no one ever becomes a magical girl again. Not sure what will happen with any Witches left though...

 

 

Oh you're in for one hell of a final stretch.

Madoka's ending is not what you expect

[Bartimaeus]

Now that you mention it, what the heck does Ikuko think of Chibi-Usa suddenly disappearing? Early into SuperS, Ikuko was talking about how she was so happy with and proud of all of her children, Chibi-Usa included, and was looking forward to all of them growing up and getting married. It was actually one of the sweeter moments of the season, especially given it happened right after Chibi-Usa had actually legitimately wronged Usagi (which is like the only time that happens in SuperS) and wanted to apologize. There are literally still photos of Chibi-Usa around - I've seen at least one of them in Usagi's room within the past few episodes I've watched.

@majestic Ugh, I remember your description of this from the first time you watched it, . In regards to Crystal...yeah, just play the Riker video again: it was all a mad fever dream, don't try to think about it or make sense of it.

Spoiler

Greg does look too old - officially, by the time of The Movie, he's supposed to be 42, but early into the series, he looks more like he's already in his mid-40s. Guess that's the price of being an eternally grieving homeless bum?

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[InsaneCommander]

23 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

Now that you mention it, what the heck does Ikuko think of Chibi-Usa suddenly disappearing? Early into SuperS, Ikuko was talking about how she was so happy with and proud of all of her children, Chibi-Usa included, and was looking forward to all of them growing up and getting married. It was actually one of the sweeter moments of the season, especially given it happened right after Chibi-Usa had actually legitimately wronged Usagi (which is like the only time that happens in SuperS) and wanted to apologize. There are literally still photos of Chibi-Usa around - I've seen at least one of them in Usagi's room within the past few episodes I've watched.

@majestic Ugh, I remember your description of this from the first time you watched it, . In regards to Crystal...yeah, just play the Riker video again: it was all a mad fever dream, don't try to think about it or make sense of it.

  Hide contents

Greg does look too old - officially, by the time of The Movie, he's supposed to be 42, but early into the series, he looks more like he's already in his mid-40s. Guess that's the price of being an eternally grieving homeless bum?

 

Once Chibiusa left, the hypnotic effect ceased and Ikuko probably forgot about her. However, it must be really weird having friends and neighbors asking where is the daughter you never had.

[majestic]

8 minutes ago, InsaneCommander said:

Once Chibiusa left, the hypnotic effect ceased and Ikuko probably forgot about her. However, it must be really weird having friends and neighbors asking where is the daughter you never had.

I'm pretty sure everyone under Luna-P's hypnotic spell forgot about Chibi-Usa when it wore off. There's an episode in R that sets this up. The girls and Mamoru aren't affected because they never were under the spell in the first place. Why? Because the plot demands it, and there was no time to think it through when it came up - and no time for Naoko Takeuchi to spend an issue or two on dealing with the aftermath of Chibi-Usa going back home.

Or maybe everyone just treats Chibi-Usa like Deanna Troi's older sister, and if you haven't seen that episode and wonder what now, yes, that's exactly the point.

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

15 minutes ago, majestic said:

Or maybe everyone just treats Chibi-Usa like Deanna Troi's older sister

I remember that episode. One of the times I felt more sorry for Lwaxana Troi than was annoyed by her.

[InsaneCommander]

1 hour ago, majestic said:

I'm pretty sure everyone under Luna-P's hypnotic spell forgot about Chibi-Usa when it wore off. There's an episode in R that sets this up. The girls and Mamoru aren't affected because they never were under the spell in the first place. Why? Because the plot demands it, and there was no time to think it through when it came up - and no time for Naoko Takeuchi to spend an issue or two on dealing with the aftermath of Chibi-Usa going back home.

Or maybe everyone just treats Chibi-Usa like Deanna Troi's older sister, and if you haven't seen that episode and wonder what now, yes, that's exactly the point.

 

Yes, but the neighbors and friends weren't affected either, at least not all of them, I'd imagine. Someone will notice a child appearing there out of nowhere and disappearing later. If they ask some questions, both sides will think the other is crazy.

[majestic]

Steven Universe Future Episodes 1 + 2
 

Spoiler

 

Isn't that a little too on the nose?

Yeah maybe, Steven. The show sure looks better than ever though. I wonder where this Pink gem glow is going to go that showed up in the finale (and would totally have been helpful in the movie, right?), and it also seemed really weird for Steven to start a fight with Jasper like that. But okay, he's also back to trying to fix everyone, seems like the lesson from the movie didn't completely stick.

Oh, right, and since I just saw Jasper again, is there going to be exploration of Lapis' backstory? After Jasper unfused, she said that she thought she was bad, but Lapis is just a monster. And it never really came up again.

Also, Steven, helping people find out what they want is fine, but not like this. What's going on, is he secretly morphing into a proper autocratic diamond tyrant?

 

 

[majestic]

3 minutes ago, InsaneCommander said:

Yes, but the neighbors and friends weren't affected either, at least not all of them, I'd imagine. Someone will notice a child appearing there out of nowhere and disappearing later. If they ask some questions, both sides will think the other is crazy.

[InsaneCommander]

Madoka 10-12:
 

Spoiler

 

Bartimaeus, you shouldn't be here, this is the end of the show.

Spoiler

 

I wouldn't call it an unhappy ending, even though it was sad for Homura. Madoka seemed satisfied, but so do many who sacrifice themselves voluntarily.

I'm not sure I understood everything. Kyubey said the gems still get dark, but what happens them? Do the girls die or do they revert to normal humans?

Anyway, after all the suffering of the characters, this looks pretty good. Luckily Madoka can see the future too, because otherwise I would have the impression that Kyubey's species would try to find another way to exploit suffering. His logic about farm animals and people benefitting from sacrifices in the past probably make some pretty good arguments in philosophical discussions. But that doesn't make it any less wrong.

The fact they don't have emotions kind of attenuates it, but maybe a better wish for Madoka would be that his species never appeared in the universe or at least never got any of these sadistic ideas.

I liked this anime and thanks @majestic and @ArtistFormerlyKnownasKP for not spoiling how dark it got. This was a nice surprise. Although I didn't enjoy the characters suffering, watching only nice stories with happy endings would get boring fast.

Speaking of it, images like the one below are definitely false advertisment:

The only time they were all together, iirc, was when Homura tried to warn them and they didn't believe her and broke the team.

 

 

 

[Bartimaeus]

16 minutes ago, InsaneCommander said:

Yes, but the neighbors and friends weren't affected either, at least not all of them, I'd imagine. Someone will notice a child appearing there out of nowhere and disappearing later. If they ask some questions, both sides will think the other is crazy.

lmao - neighbors (OR HER SCHOOL OR FRIENDS?!) ask Ikuko about her after she's left, she's gonna be like "uh, no, I don't have a pink-haired daughter...UNLESS YOU MEAN CHIBI-CHIBI? but no, I'm pretty sure I would know if I had some other pink-haired daughter..." *next month after Chibi-Usa has come back* "what are you talking about, she's always been here!" *next month after she's left again* "sorry, never heard of her, I only have one daughter...if that"

@majestic

Spoiler

I've only watched Future once - I remember being kind of bewildered with it as I was watching each episode each week (once again, it's much better to wait until an entire season is out so you can watch it whatever pace you like) and unsure if they were going to actually do anything with the entire thing, particularly because there are a few episodes that are as 'uneven' as anything that appeared in the original show. Well...

 

[majestic]

2 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Now that you mention it, what the heck does Ikuko think of Chibi-Usa suddenly disappearing? Early into SuperS, Ikuko was talking about how she was so happy with and proud of all of her children, Chibi-Usa included, and was looking forward to all of them growing up and getting married. It was actually one of the sweeter moments of the season, especially given it happened right after Chibi-Usa had actually legitimately wronged Usagi (which is like the only time that happens in SuperS) and wanted to apologize. There are literally still photos of Chibi-Usa around - I've seen at least one of them in Usagi's room within the past few episodes I've watched.

@majestic Ugh, I remember your description of this from the first time you watched it, . In regards to Crystal...yeah, just play the Riker video again: it was all a mad fever dream, don't try to think about it or make sense of it.

  Reveal hidden contents

Greg does look too old - officially, by the time of The Movie, he's supposed to be 42, but early into the series, he looks more like he's already in his mid-40s. Guess that's the price of being an eternally grieving homeless bum?

 

SU spoilers.

Spoiler

It's a bit strange that Greg is a homeless bum, even before becoming a millionaire. The economy of Beach City barely makes sense anyway. But it's probably less his being a bum but the constant sunburn that wore his skin down.

The first three episodes of SuperS weren't so bad, except for having two of the top three horrible assault scenes. It just went downhill fast from there. Usagi yelling at her mother and storming off after Chibi-Usa ate all her lemon pie was a first warning sign, I guess, but... strange. Were we talking about something? Seems like I don't remember the topic. Isn't it strange tha they only made 161 Sailor Moon episodes? I could have done with a few more.

I'm not entirely unhappy to have watched Crystal, in part for the same reason that I'm reading the manga now. It's better than Crystal because less adaptational weirdness and some more character stuff, but it's not really... good, and it's only going to be come worse in the next arc. It puts certain things of the anime in a new context.

Also kind of looking forward to seeing more Tuxedo Mullet action in Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon. I've read that Minako and Rei will be fighting with each other in that one. That seems to fit a good deal more than whatever the anime tried by making her have a conflict with Makoto (twice even).

There's one thing I haven't complained about in the manga chapter I read recently. It's that Makoto is the only one who falls for Dark!Endymion's mind control. Why? Is there some unwritten Sailor Moon rule that Makoto needs to be used as punching bag at least once per arc? Is that because it's easy to do?

Edited April 17, 2021 by majestic