Resting bonuses stack with active abilities?

[dgray62]

8 hours ago, Jayd said:

I just explained that rest bonuses to the same stat, Might, stacked with an inspiration in the case of Shark Soup but not Mohora Wraps.

I'm pretty sure none of us understand this.

Hmm, in my experience playing forbidden fist monks, the +4 STR from Mohora Wraps does stack with the +5 STR from the Thunderous Blows. So my monk with a 15 base STR, boosted to 19 by the wraps, would end up with 24 STR when Thunderous Blows is activated. I have noticed this in many games, and it works consistently in my version of the game.

[thelee]

8 minutes ago, dgray62 said:

Hmm, in my experience playing forbidden fist monks, the +4 STR from Mohora Wraps does stack with the +5 STR from the Thunderous Blows. So my monk with a 15 base STR, boosted to 19 by the wraps, would end up with 24 STR when Thunderous Blows is activated. I have noticed this in many games, and it works consistently in my version of the game.

I'm going to confirm with a quick scan of Mohora Wraps that they are also classified as active, as are a bunch of other foods i accidentally dumped out due to a malformed regex.

 

Re-quoting jayd

Quote

I'm pretty sure none of us understand this.

 

edit: i don't know why my quote of jayd is so malformed, ah well

Edited March 24, 2021 by thelee

[Raven Darkholme]

I'm not really following your logic anymore so this is probably my last post here...

27 minutes ago, thelee said:

I did read what you wrote - you're arguing that it comes down to the specific buff types (not true) and said I happened to test the ones that don't stack (if somehow the first was true, this is not true).

 

 

8 hours ago, Raven Darkholme said:

 

I'm pretty sure that when @thelee tested it (and anyone else who did) they happened to try it with one of the stats who always get suppressed.

 

 

I should have used "maybe" instead of "I'm pretty sure", but your response makes it seem like I was claiming something is true (since you are claiming I'm spreading "false information", but I was just making an assumption and never wrote "This is what happened 100%".

18 minutes ago, thelee said:

 

But please, barreling in with some categorical declarations of how something "always" worked which flies in the face of both tests and anecdotal experiences is not helpful.

You're just completely misinterpreting what is meant by "it always worked", at least in my case I was just referring to the time this game has been out, aka it always worked on any patch.

I can't say what works on other peoples pcs or whatever and only refer to what worked for me.

10 minutes ago, thelee said:

I mean outside of the "pause-before-you-rest" exploit to get an arbitrarily large number of rest bonuses

I was referring to Hylea's/Adra interaction, quite likely the reason I quoted that.

[dgray62]

1 minute ago, thelee said:

I'm pretty sure none of us understand this.

Yes, I was surprised when I noticed that they stacked, as I expected that they wouldn't. Yet another of the game's mysteries it seems!

[Jayd]

9 minutes ago, dgray62 said:

Hmm, in my experience playing forbidden fist monks, the +4 STR from Mohora Wraps does stack with the +5 STR from the Thunderous Blows. So my monk with a 15 base STR, boosted to 19 by the wraps, would end up with 24 STR when Thunderous Blows is activated. I have noticed this in many games, and it works consistently in my version of the game.

Across multiple playthroughs (and even multiple computers) for me Mohora Wraps haven't stacked. It's like we're playing slightly but significantly different games...

Don't know for sure that it's consistent for all my playthroughs though. 

[thelee]

16 minutes ago, Raven Darkholme said:

I'm not really following your logic anymore so this is probably my last post here...

My main point is that the effect of "different types of buffs" stacking in different ways is not a workable hypothesis. E.G. it's not that some aspect of hylea's is able to stack because of the way it is set up, versus jayd's food, but something weird and underlying inconsistency how the game handles one of: save/loads, zone transitions, memory in the game engine, assets, etc, with regards to arbitrary rest/food bonuses.

The rest of it we can chalk up to this being text on the internet and sometimes nuance of how we use words gets lost in the transmission.

 

edit: while we're talking about personal experiences, rum and rymsjodda are very consistent for me in terms of not stacking. i have to juggle it pretty aggressively across many types of characters i play (with my theurge it meant making sure that if i have rum i consume deftness, if i have rymsjodda i consume coral snuff, rymsjodda with nature's bounty, etc.) if there's some inevitability that occurs, i don't run into it very much with that particular setup, and I pretty aggressively consult action speed/recovery time tooltips, especially when i mess up some combination of food/drug/potions (my mindset is pretty frequently a hopeful "maybe i was wrong about that" when i do that)

Edited March 24, 2021 by thelee

[Boeroer]

  

7 hours ago, Raven Darkholme said:

  There is nothing to understand about it, it's just chaotic game design, you either know which specific bonuses stack or don't.

But several people here already reported that the exact same bonuses sometimes stack and sometimes don't.
What you wrote before gives the impression that you think that some bonuses will always stack while others (from the same category even) won't stack. That directly contradicts what others have said. 

Anyway: My point was about the presentation of oberservations in this thread (called "facts" by some), not the observations themselves.

I mean it's no problem if people make contradictory experiences and report so. That's actually what we all want I guess: to share information and then maybe find stuff out together. The actual facts. 

What I meant and what can be problematic -  and I didn't/don't mean you personally - is to claim that one's experience are valid while the experience of others are not. That's either implying that the others are stupid or it's implying that they are lying.

As I said: I didn't mean you specifically with my post - I was speaking more generally into the tread. Some people seemed to be a bit overconfident and outright denied their own possible fallibility in the face of objection.

It's a difference to say "I experienced x so I believe it works like so..." or to say "I know for a fact it works like so because I never experienced otherwise".
What's even worse: if one then insinuates that the opposition is not interested in facts.

What's that supposed to achieve?

As can be seen now, this will just lead to infuriation. That's not necessary, is it? Again: not meaning you specifically.
Anybody who's interested in finding out what's really going on can't want that to happen.

I'd claim that a toxic debate will have worse results than a benevolent discussion.

So everybody:

edit: jeesz! while I was writing several posts got added in between. Sorry about that...

Edited March 24, 2021 by Boeroer

[Raven Darkholme]

19 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

  

But several people here already reported that the exact same bonuses sometimes stack and sometimes don't.
What you wrote before gives the impression that you think that some bonuses will always stack while others (from the same category even) won't stack. That directly contradicts what others have said. 

Anyway: My point was about the presentation of oberservations in this thread (called "facts" by some), not the observations themselves.

I mean it's no problem if people make contradictory experiences and report so. That's actually what we all want I guess: to share information and then maybe find stuff out together. The actual facts. 

What I meant and what can be problematic -  and I didn't/don't mean you personally - is to claim that one's experience are valid while the experience of others are not. That's either implying that the others are stupid or it's implying that they are lying.

As I said: I didn't mean you specifically with my post - I was speaking more generally into the tread. Some people seemed to be a bit overconfident and outright denied their own possible fallibility in the face of objection.

It's a difference to say "I experienced x so I believe it works like so..." or to say "I know for a fact it works like so because I never experienced otherwise".
What's even worse: if one then insinuates that the opposition is not interested in facts.

What's that supposed to achieve?

As can be seen now, this will just lead to infuriation. That's not necessary, is it? Again: not meaning you specifically.
Anybody who's interested in finding out what's really going on can't want that to happen.

I'd claim that a toxic debate will have worse results than a benevolent discussion.

So everybody:

edit: jeesz! while I was writing several posts got added in between. Sorry about that...

Well I got quoted twice claiming I was spreading false information(not by you), but enough bickering about that, it's too easy to misinterpret text.

When I made my initial posts I assumed exactly what you typed "some bonuses will always stack", because by that point mainly Mohora Wraps were mentioned, which in my game also did not stack so to me it looked like my findings were the same findings others have made.

But then @dgray62 reported they stack with Thunderous Blows and now I'm obviously convinced that something different than my initial "analysis" is going on.

Saving and reloading seems to be the key, since a lot of unique item effects can be changed into a different (usually stackable) buff, I suppose the same is going on here with the food.

(I have to add tho, the pause and rest exploit did not contain saving/reloading as far as I remember, I did it on stream but its been almost 2 years so my memory is quite hazy)

[thelee]

14 minutes ago, Raven Darkholme said:

Saving and reloading seems to be the key, since a lot of unique item effects can be changed into a different (usually stackable) buff, I suppose the same is going on here with the food.

(I have to add tho, the pause and rest exploit did not contain saving/reloading as far as I remember, I did it on stream but its been almost 2 years so my memory is quite hazy)

I don't even think save and reload are critically necessary. They may be a more reliable way to trigger some underlying issue, but I'm going to refer back to my case where I was able to invoke some stack-ability just by zoning through some areas (no reloads at all). I wasn't able to figure out why, and at the time the other person I was talking to couldn't reproduce it.

 

Maybe the pause/rest exploit in the process of doing that also triggers whatever underlying issue is occuring, and so bypasses save/reload. Who knows.

 

edit: at the same time, i need to reiterate that save/reload is also not guaranteed to trigger it. 

Edited March 24, 2021 by thelee

[Waski]

From my experience  i am almost 100% sure something change with the last patch (es?). Pre "Ultimate" having hylea food+ adra potion to stack( but only +skill part) was always matter of  F5/F8 for me but when i started toying with with ultimate runs i was having decent fail rate. I'll tried to dig into it but couldn't figure was what the trigger. On the different runs that were almost mirrors( difference of 2-3 h ingame time, minutes of real time with the exact same pathing and quest order) it was stacking sometimes just after drinking adra potion or after save/reload, or changing zone with/without save/reload cycle or not at all. On top of that i remember that in the past it was possible to stack "good food, better friends" with food but from my limited exp it's not possible anymore. Is it still possible to stack multiple foods?

Edited March 24, 2021 by Waski

[Boeroer]

Well hm... you can't pause in the Ultimate (due to Magran's Challenge) - so maybe it has something to do with the pause function. It's a quirky function anyway - I mean look at stuff like Lethandria's Devotion ticking for one health every time you switch to it during pause. Some game mechanics don't seem to be really "pausing" - so maybe doing something during pause triggers some active bonuses (and given the code examples those food/resting bonuses are supposed to be active) to behave like passive ones? Or it's easier to accidentially trigger this during pause - no idea. 

Edited March 24, 2021 by Boeroer