Are tanks particularly useful in this game?

[Boeroer]

It came so late (lvl 11).

Not that much fun to build around something that comes so late in the game when you can have really good stuff like Spiritshift and storm spells etc. a lot earlier imo. 

[Desmodeus]

On other hand there was quite a few powder burn focused builds thats are even worse in turm of coming late, as nor only they came at lvl 13 but you might have even miss on important build item dew to bad adventures roll and not getting one that gave eyepatch

[Boeroer]

Yeah, but if you build a Gunner towards Powder Burns you can have certain goodies on the way, like Swift Aim for example. So it's not like "bam, now once you get Powder Burns this build finally takes off" but Power Burns is just a last stepping stone (and you lose Swift Aim which is not a very good trade-off imo).

With building towards Rot Skulls you'd need to play a ranged Druid which has no real useful stuff for that role until lvl 11. It's quite bland until that point. 

I have the same problem with building towards a Fury with dual mortars + Avenging Storm: once you reach PL8 it's truly awesome - but before that it's just meh. 

[Noqn]

On 1/19/2021 at 8:16 AM, Exanos said:

It would be great if someone could make a mod for this or for adding it at the arcane archer at least... i know christmas is over but maybe a modder will see this

Try this:BlackbowPL7.zip (but as Beoroer said, this will be incompatible with all other mods that directly modify the Wizard tree.)

On 1/19/2021 at 9:35 AM, Boeroer said:

The problem with modding progression tables (which is what you need to do when moving an ability up or down in Power Levels afaik) is that they are very likely to clash with other mods (that also alter progression tables). I think.

Yep. Adding new abilities to a Progression Table: no sweat, compatible with everything, implemented with majestic elegance

Modifying or removing existing abilities... welcome to incompatability hell, I hope you like copypasting 10k lines of JSON just to change a single variable.

 

[Boeroer]

Instead of removing an ability: can one just "hide" an ability from the tree?

[Noqn]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

Instead of removing an ability: can one just "hide" an ability from the tree?

Same issue, you'd have to override the whole tree to make that change.

Adding new abilities is easy because the devs added a whole new gamedata type for appending to a tree (which they do deserve praise for). But there's no way of interacting with old abilities at all with this method, so you're left with overriding the original tree entirely.

Edited January 20, 2021 by Noqn

[Exanos]

14 hours ago, Noqn said:

Try this:BlackbowPL7.zip (but as Beoroer said, this will be incompatible with all other mods that directly modify the Wizard tree.)

Yep. Adding new abilities to a Progression Table: no sweat, compatible with everything, implemented with majestic elegance

Modifying or removing existing abilities... welcome to incompatability hell, I hope you like copypasting 10k lines of JSON just to change a single variable.

 

WOW ! Ty very much sir!!! Gonna try this tonight after my work day :D, ton of multiclass to test with this  

If i understand well : modifying/removing abilities is hell, adding is quick and easy. If so (dumb question incoming), is it possible to do it the dirty way : leaving the vanilla abilitie at PL8, and adding the same abilitie at PL7 without compatibilies issue ? (havn't see how you modded this yet).

If you are bored and want to keep modding, don't you think magran priest deserve to get the firebrand  PL2 abilitie ?... 

Anyway, thanks again !!!

Edited January 21, 2021 by Exanos

[Powerotti]

There's no need to mess with ability tree. You can spawn every summoned weapon as item with console command "giveitem <item_name>".

Name for Black Bow is Caedebalds_Blackbow_Weapon

[Boeroer]

Yes, but then it can be used by everybody and doesn't need to be summoned anymore.

 

[Powerotti]

6 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Yes, but then it can be used by everybody and doesn't need to be summoned anymore.

It's another possibility not a coercion, and if someone want to cheat make game more flexible - console is usualy the easiest way

Casting time of summoning weapon can be simulate by switching recovery

[Desmodeus]

I think we came a bit too far from original tanking question so lets return to it xD

What in your opinion is best lets say 5 SC or MC classes for tanking in deadfire? Yeah, in theory you can build anyone into tank by boosting res and giving them shield and + engagement, but which classes/combo of classes do it better then anyone else?

[Boeroer]

Unbroken/Trickster would be my personal pick.

[Desmodeus]

Yeah, the same. Probably top one out there. Swashbuckler in general is really good for tanking

I also had some nice results with Unbroken/Fury Shaper mercenary though not too deep of a test. Looks like Carnage also allows to keep ensure that several enemies feel danger from tank. Though  swashbuckler is more reliable

[Exanos]

Unbroken/trickster is very good but need to be supported by the party in (very) long fight.

I found Unbroken/troubadour quite nice too cause more self sufficient while still having lot of engagement and great utility (chanter power!). 

For tanking, definitely a multiclass.

 

 

[Powerotti]

Priest of wael / beckoner is VERY party friendly as tank/summoner/support. With dumped might and per - focus only on buffing and healing (which doesn't require any ACC, so heavy shield is welcome), while summoned meatshields hold enemies thanks to The Sliver Knights Shields... They can also apply CC and do some dmg

Celebrant itself can be excelent tank too, because of wael spells and many engagement slots from eq and Champion's Boon

[Desmodeus]

19 hours ago, Exanos said:

Unbroken/trickster is very good but need to be supported by the party in (very) long fight.

Pretty sure everyone except monk or chanter need party support in long fights. Resources of other classes are not unlimited. And once resources run out you at best has just one empower charge

[Boeroer]

I'm not playing in a way that my tank needs to resolve the encounter alone and the rest of the party stands by. Of course the tank will get party support. I didn't think this was an outlandish concept...?

[Exanos]

I wasn't telling unbroken/chanter was better than unbroken/trickster, no, just that it's good too . On POTD, there was some fight were my main healer get downed after a mistake (fail to interrupt/cc...) which lead the rest of my backline to fell, then only the tank remain. In these "Oh ****..." moment, having a reliable selfsustain tank is quite enjoyable  (I agree, it didn't happen often if you know what you do, which is not totally my case yet, even after hundred hours in thiss game, still learning :D)

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by Exanos

[Desmodeus]

29 minutes ago, Exanos said:

On POTD, there was some fight were my main healer get downed after a mistake (fail to interrupt/cc...) which lead the rest of my backline to fell, then only the tank remain

Why not get some arcane and have reviving scroll on hands xD Just 7 arcane 

[yogaman28734]

On 1/16/2021 at 3:01 AM, Boeroer said:

My tank works like a permanent, movable Pull of Eora with a damage component.

I love this description! This is the reason I never let my AI handle escape or charge or leap. It’s always AS (artificial stupidity).

[yogaman28734]

On 1/19/2021 at 2:16 AM, Exanos said:

 

It would be great if someone could make a mod for this or for adding it at the arcane archer at least... i know christmas is over but maybe a modder will see this

The 33-levels mod lets you get the tier 8 and 9 abilities with MC characters once you get above level 20.  Playing solo or with a small party this doesn’t have to be late in the game.

[Desmodeus]

What is the best tanking race now btw? Still wild orlan? Now there is 4 races that has resistance to affliction: Coastal Aumaua has Might affliction resistance(Stun - Stuggered - Dazed), Mountain Dwarf has constitution affliction (Enfeebled - Weakened - Sickened), Wood elf has dexterity affliction resistance (Paralyzed - Immobilized - Hobbled) and finally wild orlan has Resolve (Terrified - Frightened - Shaken) so question is - which type of countering inspirations harder to come by...