[Mechanics/small PSA] Boar spiritshift DoT

[Elric Galad]

9 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Would be less confusing if the passive came fist and spiritshift stuff after. 

The description part is confusing, but the Spiritshifting table after it seems to confirm it as a Spiritshift bonus. 

[Elric Galad]

I don't think CP gives +1 PEN to maelstrom though. It was already tagged Water and secret of rime also apply to Water KW. As far as I know, Secret of Rime gives +1 PEN to (water or ice) KW, not +1 for both.

CP change adds +1PL from Chromoprismatic though since it only applies to Ice tag and each chromo +1 PL are separate effects.

[Boeroer]

Ah - I didn't know Secrets of Rime also works for water because we have specific PL bonuses for water, wind and frost in the game - so I just assumed it's the same with the PEN talents. 

I just guessed that CP added 1 PEN with Secrets of Rime because it added the frost keyword that was missing before although the spell does lots of freeze dmg. Might check later if Secret of Rime still applies to both dmg effects when I turn the mod off - just to be sure. 

Yeah, the SpShift table in the wiki is misleading. I never looked at it before.

 

 

 

[Elric Galad]

31 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Ah - I didn't know Secrets of Rime also works for water because we have specific PL bonuses for water, wind and frost in the game - so I just assumed it's the same with the PEN talents. 

I just guessed that CP added 1 PEN with Secrets of Rime because it added the frost keyword that was missing before although the spell does lots of freeze dmg. Might check later if Secret of Rime still applies to both dmg effects when I turn the mod off - just to be sure. 

Yeah, the SpShift table in the wiki is misleading. I never looked at it before.

Same with Decay KW that is affected by Spirit of... Decay. In addition to Acid KW.

Anyway, the only Decay tagged KW that deal damages deal Corrode damages (Touch of Rot, Autumn cone and Rot Skulls)... but aren't tagged Acid.

Once more Chromoprismatic only gives +1 PL to Acid spells, therefore Touch of Rot & friends aren't affected.

[Boeroer]

@Elric GaladJust wanted to confirm that you were absolutely right: it doesn't matter whether CP is installed or not - Great Maelstrom profits from Secrets of Rime in any case (both effects, the pure freeze dmg proc + the burn/shock proc as well). 

[Ivanfyodorovich]

While Maelstrom is being discussed, im wondering if folks know that Tekehu or someone wearing the oilskin cloak is immune to the freeze/crush half, which makes it fun for Builds that want to be hit by shock or burn damage. The cloak is weird, b/c it’s not listed as such. 

[dgray62]

I gather that a SC fury druid with the elemental abilities (secret of rime, etc.) and LDV for the extra +3 to storm spells and Deltros cage for the +2 electricity PLs must be pretty impressive. Do all of these PL boosts stack?

[AndreaColombo]

1 minute ago, dgray62 said:

Do all of these PL boosts stack?

They should, since they're passive.

However, heavy armor on a Druid means looooong recovery times.

[Boeroer]

They do stack. +5 PL for Great Maelstrom. As a Nature Godlike with Prestige and Stone of Power you'll have +8 PL which not only does awesome dmg (40% multplicative) but also prologs the duration (40%) and raises PEN by another clean 2 points on top of the Fury passive and Scion of Flame etc. Overpenetration works really nicely in combination with the boosted base dmg.

+8 PL is something. You'll only get +5 when you empower an ability, so...  You can even stack those 8 with empower and cast with +13 PL.

Edited November 5, 2020 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

37 minutes ago, AndreaColombo said:

They should, since they're passive.

However, heavy armor on a Druid means looooong recovery times.

Since you will have very limited casts of Great Maelstrom you might want to squeeze every bit out of it. From stealth the recovery is -85%, so...

[dgray62]

If I try a SC fury druid I think I'd drop the cage, as I don't think the heavy armor is worth it for +2 PL for a pure caster. Does Greater Maelstrom trigger multiple procs from least unstable coil? If so, such a caster would be great for the Weyc gear.

[Boeroer]

43 minutes ago, dgray62 said:

Does Greater Maelstrom trigger multiple procs from least unstable coil?

Yep!

[dgray62]

Thanks! I see a nice trajectory for this build, which would be strong as a caster from beginning to end.

[dgray62]

I tried out a Helwalker/shifter ascetic, and it's incredible. The multiple lashes (corrode wildstrike, lighting flurry and the boar's raw DoT) cuts through most enemies like butter. I also just got Hylea's Talons and can confirm that they do work with spiritshift attacks, which is great. The squishiness of the Helwalker can be offset with  Death's Maw helm, spending wounds when necessary, and by casting the Moon's Light or Nature's Balm before shifting. Having Abraham on you or Eder also helps. With high INT, the boar shift lasts for most battles, so taking another druid subclass would be totally viable as well. I'll probably try a SC fury druid later, but this build is so much fun I'm going to stick with it for now.

[Boeroer]

Might sound counterintuitive but I think a Lifegiver would be the best partner class for a Helwalker Boar. 

Lifegivers gain +5 PL for Rejuvenation spells once shifted and for HoT it also works if you cast Moonwell etc. first and then shift. The ticks will adapt to the higher PL.

You would have insanely high healing numbers because of PL bonus * MIG bonus from Helwalker on top of the Boar's regeneration and I guess you wouldn't need to get healed a lot while pummeling enemies with Wildstrike. 

Ah and sorry: I forgot to answer the question about Hylea's Talons earlier. While shifted all items except armor and weapons will work. You could add the Belt of Magran's Chosen for another small burning lash and wear Rekvu's Scorched Cloak so that the summoned Flame Blight even heals you should it attack you. 

Edited November 6, 2020 by Boeroer

[thelee]

wow it's really neat to see that this tiny mechanics re-clarification has opened the doors to some interesting new builds!

[dgray62]

Boeroer, I think you are right that Lifegiver would be best for this build. Having reached level 8 already as a shifter/helwalker, I've rarely used any form other than boar. If it expires before the battle ends, usually the battle is almost over, and shifting again doesn't make sense, since monk's fists also do respectable damage. It would be nice to be able to cast Nature's Balm in battle, as needed. And casting Moonwell first would be a great idea, so you can get the most out of your 30+ seconds of shift time. And I like the idea of  Belt of Magran's Chosen and  Rekvu's Scorched Cloak for this build. You could have a wizard or priest cast flame nukes over you in the midst of battle. That would be very fun.

[dgray62]

44 minutes ago, thelee said:

wow it's really neat to see that this tiny mechanics re-clarification has opened the doors to some interesting new builds!

Yes, thanks for the initial observation, thelee!

 

[thelee]

if you're not going shifter, then meppu/roe, ooblit, and strand of favor might be useful items to extend spiritshift duraiton.

 

though who knows, maybe by the time you can get +10 intellect from monk, all of that might be moot.

[Boeroer]

Another advantage of not using a Shifter is that you can use Taste of the Hunt while shifted - which I completely fell in love with now.  I mean you don't need to cast it while shifted, it does the same whether you are shifted or not - but it's a bit annoying that you have to wait for the shift to end in order to be able to cast it. 

Looking at Taste of the Hunt I also wonder if Forbidden Fist/Boar would be cool? The enfeeblement would not only prolong Taste of the Hunt but also Boar's DoT lash by 50%. Which is more dmg (though not dps) than Helwalker's 30%. I don't recall how enfeebled's 50% and the duration bonus from INT and crits do stack. Is enfeeblement maybe multiplicative with those? That would be very potent. 

Edited November 6, 2020 by Boeroer

[thelee]

43 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

I don't recall how enfeebled's 50% and the duration bonus from INT and crits do stack. Is enfeeblement maybe multiplicative with those? That would be very potent. 

enfeebled is treated almost identically as if you had +10 additional intellect, applied immediately, so it's additive with int.

 

also an intriguing option!

[dgray62]

I like the idea of FF/boar druid. I just wish there were more stat points to boost RES. For my Helwalker/shifter I went with 15/9/20/20/20/6, with Berath's Blessings. But you wouldn't want RES so low for a FF build. How about 12/10/16/18/20/14 for a FF variant? I would want to keep INT at 20 to prolong the shift.  I'd also want PER high since I play on PotD, and there aren't too many ways to boost accuracy for this build. But maybe there are better ways to optimize such a build, stat wise?

[Elric Galad]

Oh, Bonus PL are flagged differently from Bonus PEN effects. Bonus PL are always cumulative.

That means that Watershaper's Focus + Community Patch Maelstorm should be +2 PL (+1PL for water, +1 for ice).

[Elric Galad]

15 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Another advantage of not using a Shifter is that you can use Taste of the Hunt while shifted - which I completely fell in love with now.  I mean you don't need to cast it while shifted, it does the same whether you are shifted or not - but it's a bit annoying that you have to wait for the shift to end in order to be able to cast it. 

Looking at Taste of the Hunt I also wonder if Forbidden Fist/Boar would be cool? The enfeeblement would not only prolong Taste of the Hunt but also Boar's DoT lash by 50%. Which is more dmg (though not dps) than Helwalker's 30%. I don't recall how enfeebled's 50% and the duration bonus from INT and crits do stack. Is enfeeblement maybe multiplicative with those? That would be very potent. 

By the way, Wildstrike seems to apply to every weapon attack while shifted, not only claws. Good for FF cause FF ability does not count as originating from wielded weapons.

[Boeroer]

Erm... I don't quite understand the causal inference - but I just wondered if it's possible to attack with something else than the natural spiritshift weapons (besides FF). Afaik all summoned weapon spells get deactivated while shifted. Meaning you can't cast them while shifted. Inner Death is not accessible to Druids. What if a Cipher casts Reaping Knives on a shifted Druid though? Never tried...

Also: what happens when you are shifted and then summon an Essential Phantom? Does it get the fur armor and the claws? What happens with Living Illusions from dat cape when you are shifted? I did try that stuff but completely forgot what happened. Was a long time ago...

Edited November 7, 2020 by Boeroer