Radeon Thread

[Zoraptor]

Be interesting to see if it can be modded in to more titles apart from those with fixed shaders (eg GTAV).

Also be interesting to see how many nVidia sponsored/ DLSS titles it turns up on. It does seem to be slated to be added to a couple at least.

[Sarex]

Reviews are up for the 6950, 6750 and 6650 cards. Other than in RTX application they are more then a match for the Nvidia cards and much cheaper from what I can see.

Edited May 10, 2022 by Sarex

[Pidesco]

On 5/10/2022 at 7:28 PM, Sarex said:

Reviews are up for the 6950, 6750 and 6650 cards. Other than in RTX application they are more then a match for the Nvidia cards and much cheaper from what I can see.

The 6750 seems weaker for the price, but the 6950 is great?

[Sarex]

2 hours ago, Pidesco said:

but the 6950 is great?

If you want to spend 1500eur...

[Pidesco]

57 minutes ago, Sarex said:

If you want to spend 1500eur...

Sure but it is better than a 3090? Other than RTX, anyway.

[Sarex]

1 minute ago, Pidesco said:

Sure but it is better than a 3090? Other than RTX, anyway.

From what I can see, it is in most cases.

[Pidesco]

6 minutes ago, Sarex said:

From what I can see, it is in most cases.

I've also seen the price quoted as 1100 which, don't get me wrong, is insane for a GPU. But when comparing to the current prices for 3080s and 3090s, it's actually good. Assuming it is accurate.

[Sarex]

1 minute ago, Pidesco said:

I've also seen the price quoted as 1100 which, don't get me wrong, is insane for a GPU. But when comparing to the current prices for 3080s and 3090s, it's actually good. Assuming it is accurate.

The MSI I linked is more expensive, but either way I doubt the price will be msrp.

[Zoraptor]

Prices will be at or below MSRP even in Europe if the price of bitcoin maintains its drop. We've already had decent AIB 6900XT for sale for bang on MSRP (taking our GST into account) despite them costing a decent amount to import. The only cards that are still inflated are 3080Ti and 3090s. Probably not a great time for AMD to be releasing cards with prices based on the inflated values, though they probably don't cost AMD any more.

Pretty good reviews out there for FSR 2.0 too. Not quite as good as current iteration DLSS, but perhaps close enough considering its hardware agnostic and doesn't need tensors, plus will be default on every console.

(Favourite complaint picked from internet comments: nice nVidia lets their sponsored titles use FSR, but nasty AMD sponsored titles don't use DLSS. Why is AMD so mean?)

Edited May 12, 2022 by Zoraptor

[Keyrock]

20 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

Pretty good reviews out there for FSR 2.0 too. Not quite as good as current iteration DLSS, but perhaps close enough considering its hardware agnostic and doesn't need tensors, plus will be default on every console.

Winning the MSony console bid for a second straight generation has been a massive win for AMD and is a huge advantage for FSR. A lot of games are simultaneously developed for PC and consoles. If you're a developer you can use DLSS and it doesn't work on consoles nor on PCs with AMD or Intel graphics nor older Nvidia graphics. You can use XeSS and it doesn't work on consoles nor PCs with AMD or Nvidia graphics. Or, you can use FSR which covers all your bases, except perhaps Switch (?)

Nvidia can exploit their market dominance on PC, but the console problem is still there looming. Intel is a new player in the graphics space, which means XeSS suffers from the worst of all worlds. All this changes if Intel or Nvidia wins the bid for the next round of MSony consoles, but that's at least 4 years away.

Edited May 13, 2022 by Keyrock

[Zoraptor]

XeSS will work on other vendors' hardware, it uses some Intel specific accelerators but does have fall backs if they aren't present, unlike DLSS. Wouldn't be any point to it at all if it were Arc exclusive, especially with their delays meaning that a rumoured up to 3070Ti level top tier will be competing with Lovelace/ RDNA3 within a few months. There probably isn't any point to it with FSR improving so much either, but I guess you never know- and it may be a Tensor type situation where the accelerators can also be used for Other Stuff to justify their existence.

Or maybe Raja is enjoying throwing money at things rather than having to count pennies as he had to at AMD.

[Keyrock]

37 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

XeSS will work on other vendors' hardware, it uses some Intel specific accelerators but does have fall backs if they aren't present, unlike DLSS. Wouldn't be any point to it at all if it were Arc exclusive, especially with their delays meaning that a rumoured up to 3070Ti level top tier will be competing with Lovelace/ RDNA3 within a few months. There probably isn't any point to it with FSR improving so much either, but I guess you never know- and it may be a Tensor type situation where the accelerators can also be used for Other Stuff to justify their existence.

Or maybe Raja is enjoying throwing money at things rather than having to count pennies as he had to at AMD.

XeSS will supposedly eventually work on other vendors' hardware, but for the near-term future it's Arc-only.

As of right now and for the immediate future, FSR is the only upscaling solution that covers the MSony consoles (no clue if works on Switch) and all PCs (there are probably limits to FSR compatibility, I doubt it will work on TNT Riva 2 ).

Edited May 13, 2022 by Keyrock

[Zoraptor]

Yeah, it's how long the 'near term future' is that is at question I guess. Three ways to interpret it: there will be (are?) some Arc graphics with piecemeal release for laptops earlier than the desktop line and they want to launch full suite XeSS with the desktop line

They are having some implementation problems, or problems with the fallback implementations, andor it needs driver side implementation from AMD/ nVidia (which would be 'funny', but I wouldn't wholly discount it)

Or, the big one: they promised XeSS and have to deliver it- but they only have to deliver it to Arc users. This would be the case if they've decided that they cannot compete with DLSS/ FSR.

Despite my equivocation above the bottom option is the one I personally think is the case, but only on balance. FSR 2.0 being such a big improvement while still being easy to implement and Intel very likely getting some advance notice of that certainly makes option 3 a lot more likely. Hard to see any space for XeSS to slot into, now though to be fair to Intel/ Raja there certainly was previous, short of Intel splurging vast amounts of cash for actual exclusivity; and it's hard to see that considering how much they'd have to splurge. That leaves it very much looking like a tech solution without a problem to solve any more.

Edited May 13, 2022 by Zoraptor

[Keyrock]

If XeSS remains Arc-exclusive for an extended period of time it's DOA in my opinion, unless it's SPECTACULARLY better than DLSS and FSR, and even then... The irony is that Intel actually has a big marketshare in graphics given their iGPUs, but they are not currently XeSS compatible. Future iGPUs may be, but that does nothing for Intel right now, hence they can't flex their market dominance via proprietary tech like Jensen and his black leather jacket can.

If XeSS does become vendor neutral it has to quickly become at least as good as FSR or it's DOA in my opinion.

The smartest route would be for blood rivals AMD and Intel to work together to make FSR the best it can be and make DLSS obsolete. I'm not holding my breath.

[Zoraptor]

I don't think I've seen what is known about RDNA3 summarised well before but there's a pretty good summary here.

Not much on actual performance though of course, since it's not dealing with rumours.

[Keyrock]

I'm not so much interested in the discrete RDNA 3 cards, nor the initial Zen 4 desktop CPUs, for that matter, but I am interested in the eventual Zen 4/RDNA 3 APUs coming, presumably, sometime in 2023. If Valve were to release a Steam Deck 2 in a few years, some derivative of the Zen 4/RDNA 3 APUs seems as good a candidate as any. To that end, I'll be interested in how the big boy GPUs and CPUs from Team Red perform since that will be a decent indicator of how the eventual APUs will perform. There will, of course, still be the issue of DDR not being nearly as suited for GPU work as GDDR, an issue not as prominent with the higher bandwith of DDR5 as it was with DDR4, but nevertheless still present.

[Zoraptor]

The +50% perf/ watt alone ought to be a big improvement for something like the Steam Deck, certainly. Since Zen4 have integrated graphics albeit RDNA2 we'll also get some idea whether stuff like 3d cache is going to provide extra graphics bandwidth, and longer term there's layering memory in to the APU too...

I'd presume any RDNA3 APUs will be a while away, maybe Q1 2024, and probably reserved for Zen4+/ refresh or Zen5 unless MSony* want to do a console refresh. AMD certainly hasn't seen integrated graphics for gaming purposes as worth doing as a priority- outside of the consoles- up to this point. They were still using Vega up until recently after all, and retaping is expensive.

*does of course depend on what volumes Valve is selling of the SD, and whether they're willing to pay R&D costs like MSony did.

[Keyrock]

56 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

I'd presume any RDNA3 APUs will be a while away, maybe Q1 2024, and probably reserved for Zen4+/ refresh or Zen5 unless MSony* want to do a console refresh.

I don't see the point of a mid-cycle refresh any time soon. Both the PS5 and xXxBOxXx can already do 4K, and that's before FSR 2.0 enters the equation. A Zen 4/RDNA 3 APU won't be able to handle 8K and 8K doesn't make any sense right now, or any time soon, anyway. I suppose they could run with the high refresh rate angle for the people with TVs that have HDMI 2.1 and VRR, but how many people have that? I mean, I do, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say I'm very much in the minority.

A mid-cycle refresh made sense last time around since 4K televisions reached a price point affordable enough for the common rabble. Never mind the fact that neither the PS4 Pro nor the X1X could handle 4K without SIGNIFICANT compromises. MSony could market the 4K angle, even if it was rather sad 4K, because 4K televisions were affordable enough.

Edited August 13, 2022 by Keyrock

[Zoraptor]

The only reason I think they might- and I agree, it's certainly not likely- is because there's now an oversupply of fab capacity. Per the recent rumour about nVidia they're going to be charged for that capacity whether they use it or not. In that case it may make sense to do a refresh, claim fastest/ coolest/ whatever console etc.

The counters to that are far stronger though- with the design/ production lag they'd have had to have guessed there would be excess capacity quite a while ago and done the work as a contingency for it to be ready on Zen4. And if they'd guessed that a while ago they'd probably just not booked the fab capacity in the first place. It's also, obviously, not a great time to be trying to sell a premium product during a recession when many people are worrying about spending money on the real basics.

[Zoraptor]

RDNA3/ 7000 series launch on November 3. Gotta get an announcement in a few hours before nVidia, I guess.

 

[Keyrock]

52 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

RDNA3/ 7000 series launch on November 3. Gotta get an announcement in a few hours before nVidia, I guess.

 

Classic **** move 

[Keyrock]

RDNA 3 presentation incoming.

The first thing Lisa Su says should be "our new RDNA 3 GPUs won't burn down your house."

Edit: Dr. Lisa Su stepped up her jacket game.

Edited November 3, 2022 by Keyrock

[Sarex]

So many digs at nvidia...and well deserved.

[Keyrock]

They're really hammering DisplayPort 2.1. It's really not going to make much, if any difference for 98% of people. That's marketing for you.

I'm excited about performance/watt and FSR 3.

Edit: $999 for the RX 7900 XTX. If it's even remotely close to RTX 4090 in rasterization (we know it won't be in ray tracing) then that's a waaay better value. I guess we'll find out once 3rd party benchmarks surface.

 

Edited November 3, 2022 by Keyrock

[Sarex]

Then again how much do you care for ray tracing.