Weapon choice for skald

[Pharmacist]

Hi, I'm about to roll a war caller skald (I still can't decide on which fighter subclass to pick) to use Sun and Moon as main hand weapon (to benefit from double crit chance) along with a ranged weapon in offhand, in order to attack always with the flail. What could be a good offhand weapom choice? I was thinking to pick The Weyc's Wand for empower shenanigans (plus the coil etc.) but that doesn't come until quite lategame.

[Haplok]

Kitchen Stove blunderbuss maybe? If you don't have another character who wants it more (like a cipher... or a monk). Its per encounter Thunderous Report cone is quite ridiculous.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Haplok

[Elric Galad]

Scordeo's Trophy, so it increases Attack speed with the flail ?

[Haplok]

Well, yeah, but in order to achieve that, he'd have to attack with the pistol, rather then the flail.

I mean 1 shot is fine, before you enter reload, but it's not exactly a big bonus from just 1 shot.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Haplok

[Elric Galad]

17 minutes ago, Haplok said:

Well, yeah, but in order to achieve that, he'd have to attack with the pistol, rather then the flail.

I mean 1 shot is fine, before you enter reload, but it's not exactly a big bonus from just 1 shot.

Yeah, that would be just 5% increased speed.

I was wondering the same.

A Whale of a Wand ? Pierce damages for crush resistant foes, chance to charm with spells hit, and a backup BDD for utility ?
Errr, no, decrease melee deflection when equipped.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Elric Galad

[Haplok]

Could still be decent...

Edited April 28, 2020 by Haplok

[Elric Galad]

1 minute ago, Haplok said:

Could still be decent...

If you plan spamming a lots of spells such as Thrice she was wronged (which does a lots of separate rolls), it can be nice.

Or either Eye of Wael for the Defensive Illusion spell or Kitchen Stoves for Thunderous Report. You can't go wrong with them.

[Boeroer]

War Caller does very well with Whispers of the Endless Paths and Offensive Parry. Offensive Parries can crit and those crits can generate phrases. You just have to make sure that your deflection is very high and that enemies ACC gets debuffed. 

If you then "tank" a bit with Disciplined Strikes and Refreshing Defense (and the Knights Shield phrase for example) you'll get some phrases pretty quickly via parries. 

If you use an Unbroken and stack some engagement slots you can also play with Terrify + Disengagement Attacks. E.g. when using White Witch Mask. Disengagement Attacks have a high crit chance and also do create phrases.

The standard melee weapon for a Skald is indeed Sun & Moon because you'll get 2 chances for a crit with each strike.

Keeper of the Flame: don't think the AoE creates phrases (would be cool) - they are considered ranged attacks and thus don't work for a Skald.   

One could check of Chilling Grave from Grave Calling counts as melee attack rolls. Togehter with Ancient Brittle Bones that could lead to a ton of crits. Never tried that though.

Scordeo's Trophy sounds like a good idea if you want to attack with Sun & Moon only. Usually it takes some time until all enemies reach you and you can get of a few shots, only then cast your first invocation. Scordeo's Edge is also very good for the +20 ACC from adaptive (and the occasional Blade Cascade).

I never managed to proc the spell effects that should come with a Whale of a Wand.
 

Edited April 28, 2020 by Boeroer

[Elric Galad]

Also do you plan to use Quickswitch, or even Black Jacket ?

I would even consider pure 1-handed style for a Skald - Warcaller. It makes Clear Out spamming better than dual Wield.

[Powerotti]

Skald can generate only one phrase at a time, even if you crit multiple times. For example if you use WotEP and score 100 crits with its aoe, you still get only 1 phrase.

I tried to maximize phrase generating and it turned out that monk/skald with maxed atkspd is best for it. Using Sund an Moon one handed, with Ring of Focused Flame and Enduring dance, phrase generates so quickly, one can keep animated weapons on all the time, enemies stuned (thunder rolled) and paralyzed (sound of his voice), and spam Thrice Was She Wronged. On top of that Hellwalker/Skald can get 35mig, 35int and 35 dex. Flail modal decrease reflex, so its easier to land Thrice... and Thunder...

BTW high ACC with Sun and Moon leads to massive dmg with Swift Flurry / HBD combo chains

[Elric Galad]

1 minute ago, Powerotti said:

Skald can generate only one phrase at a time, even if you crit multiple times. For example if you use WotEP and score 100 crits with its aoe, you still get only 1 phrase.

I tried to maximize phrase generating and it turned out that monk/skald with maxed atkspd is best for it. Using Sund an Moon one handed, with Ring of Focused Flame and Enduring dance, phrase generates so quickly, one can keep animated weapons on all the time, enemies stuned (thunder rolled) and paralyzed (sound of his voice), and spam Thrice Was She Wronged. On top of that Hellwalker/Skald can get 35mig, 35int and 35 dex. Flail modal decrease reflex, so its easier to land Thrice... and Thunder...

BTW high ACC with Sun and Moon leads to massive dmg with Swift Flurry / HBD combo chains

Problem is that I tend to be suspicious about Win-more when it comes to getting crit. Attack speed works when your acc is higher than ennemy defenses. But when facing stronger foes, you don't have any way to get crit.

% Hit to Crit almost guarantee crit chances, and monk doesn't have any apart enduring dance which can be tricky to keep up in melee (especially, once more, in harder fights). Intuitive from fighters as well as fighter's Acc buffs provides Something more reliable for me.

Oh and Sun&Moon by night is great with Cold-based Skald Offensive Invocations.

[Boeroer]

12 minutes ago, Powerotti said:

Skald can generate only one phrase at a time, even if you crit multiple times. For example if you use WotEP and score 100 crits with its aoe, you still get only 1 phrase.

The AoE: yes. Also Swift Flurry/HBD does nothing as I had to find out with a Shattered Pillar/Skald (although was still good).

But with Offensive Parry you are "riposting" enemies attacks. You can get phrases if you crit with parries even while not attacking (like for example while casting an invocation). 

[Powerotti]

It gives more chances to get refund. Its only 50% on crit, so more crits with one atk=better chances for refund. Scoring crits is not that hard with over 140 ACC, and debuffed enemy. 

35 dex makes invocations recovery time very short.

Offensive parry doesn't do anything, because with so much phrases, enemies are stuned and/or paralyzed anyway. Ofc if not immune - that's the only weakness. I can post complete build soon

[Boeroer]

I simply didn't use hard-CC invocations but damaging and debuffing ones (Shield Cracks, Fen Fidel's Neck and most notably White Worms which is ridiculous if you can cast it often - like a Skald with Offensive Parry who can generate phrases while casting his invocations). That way you can dish out damage non-stop while being tanky and gaining phrases passively from parries and singing. Of course that Skald is not about crowd control then.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Boeroer

[Pharmacist]

Thank you for all the replies! I have two monks in my party (a SC forbidden fist and a shattered pillar/soulblade) so I don't want a third one. It is going to be fighter/skald.

15 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Also do you plan to use Quickswitch, or even Black Jacket ?

I would even consider pure 1-handed style for a Skald - Warcaller. It makes Clear Out spamming better than dual Wield.

That's actually a great idea, I was thinking about choosing blackjacket but did not consider 1h style.

16 hours ago, Boeroer said:

War Caller does very well with Whispers of the Endless Paths and Offensive Parry. Offensive Parries can crit and those crits can generate phrases. You just have to make sure that your deflection is very high and that enemies ACC gets debuffed. 

If you then "tank" a bit with Disciplined Strikes and Refreshing Defense (and the Knights Shield phrase for example) you'll get some phrases pretty quickly via parries. 

If you use an Unbroken and stack some engagement slots you can also play with Terrify + Disengagement Attacks. E.g. when using White Witch Mask. Disengagement Attacks have a high crit chance and also do create phrases.

The standard melee weapon for a Skald is indeed Sun & Moon because you'll get 2 chances for a crit with each strike.

Keeper of the Flame: don't think the AoE creates phrases (would be cool) - they are considered ranged attacks and thus don't work for a Skald.   

One could check of Chilling Grave from Grave Calling counts as melee attack rolls. Togehter with Ancient Brittle Bones that could lead to a ton of crits. Never tried that though.

Scordeo's Trophy sounds like a good idea if you want to attack with Sun & Moon only. Usually it takes some time until all enemies reach you and you can get of a few shots, only then cast your first invocation. Scordeo's Edge is also very good for the +20 ACC from adaptive (and the occasional Blade Cascade).

I never managed to proc the spell effects that should come with a Whale of a Wand.
 

I did some playtesting, Sun and Moon does nice and WotEP, albeit quite slower at autoattacks, does great too against multiple targets (and with the plus of having Ofensive Parry). That said, having using blackjacket I could switch weapons versus single (Sun and Moon) and multiple targets (WotEP). Also it is good to have a 3rd weapon slot for empower shenanigans (Sasha's and The Weyc's Wand) and another for The Eye of Wael (for switching when getting bloodied to proc Form Fantasmic and then immediately switching back with no penalty) plus another 1h weapon with an active ability to have on demand.

I also tested offhand ranged weapons for dual wielding with Sun and Moon. I tested for on-hit effects and passive bonuses to see if some effect that could applt to main hand attacks or spells (something like Lover's Quarrel proccing in response to spells crits), the only thing I found is Current Rush's bonus crit damage applying to main hand attacks. On the other hand, A Whale of a Wand's charm effect procs quite often of Her Revenge because of the bouncing.

[Elric Galad]

8 hours ago, Pharmacist said:

Thank you for all the replies! I have two monks in my party (a SC forbidden fist and a shattered pillar/soulblade) so I don't want a third one. It is going to be fighter/skald.

That's actually a great idea, I was thinking about choosing blackjacket but did not consider 1h style.

I did some playtesting, Sun and Moon does nice and WotEP, albeit quite slower at autoattacks, does great too against multiple targets (and with the plus of having Ofensive Parry). That said, having using blackjacket I could switch weapons versus single (Sun and Moon) and multiple targets (WotEP). Also it is good to have a 3rd weapon slot for empower shenanigans (Sasha's and The Weyc's Wand) and another for The Eye of Wael (for switching when getting bloodied to proc Form Fantasmic and then immediately switching back with no penalty) plus another 1h weapon with an active ability to have on demand.

I also tested offhand ranged weapons for dual wielding with Sun and Moon. I tested for on-hit effects and passive bonuses to see if some effect that could applt to main hand attacks or spells (something like Lover's Quarrel proccing in response to spells crits), the only thing I found is Current Rush's bonus crit damage applying to main hand attacks. On the other hand, A Whale of a Wand's charm effect procs quite often of Her Revenge because of the bouncing.

There's plenty of utility to consider when going blackjacket, and you don't have to use all of your slots to support your Skald side.

1 handed style isn't usually the best style, but to reliably get your target prone with clear out, it's the best of the 3 offensive styles. (2H, 1H, DW)

It is also possible to attack with an offensive style and switch to Sword & Board during recovery. This might be annoying to do for every Attack, but if you are in defensive mode, it's nice to be able to use an offensive set just for a special Attack.
You might also switch freely to your caster's sticks (A whale, sasha's, etc...) just for casting and come back to yoru regular weapon.

Club & Morningstar are also options for modals.

Finally if you have a Priest with Champion's Boon in your party, Slayer's Claw can be nice to upgrade Tenacious to Energized.
Energized + Skald makes your crits feel great. Granted you usually get it late.

I would always consider this when going Black Jacket, its anti-buff properties are extremely useful especially vs BoW boss or Fighters in general (bye bye unbending) :
https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Street_Sweeper

[dgray62]

On 4/28/2020 at 5:47 AM, Powerotti said:

I tried to maximize phrase generating and it turned out that monk/skald with maxed atkspd is best for it. Using Sund an Moon one handed, with Ring of Focused Flame and Enduring dance, phrase generates so quickly, one can keep animated weapons on all the time, enemies stuned (thunder rolled) and paralyzed (sound of his voice), and spam Thrice Was She Wronged. On top of that Hellwalker/Skald can get 35mig, 35int and 35 dex.

How do you get 35 dex? I think you can get DEX to 22 with an elf or godlike MC and Berath's blessing and deadfire background. Swift flurry will bring you up to 27. You could get over 30 with equipment. Drugs and food don't stack with inspirations, right?

[Powerotti]