Drake summons are utter trash

[Boeroer]

They do scale (with char level though, not PL). What doesn't scale is the weapons (and armor) they wear. At least that's the case for some summons - not all.  

[thelee]

14 hours ago, Boeroer said:

That is one single use case though. the higher the level/content the more narrower it becomes.

i was only giving that as an example.

on potd with upscaling/challenges, even 25% normal hp beckoner skeletons are as great in late game as early game.

[Boeroer]

Huh?

They can't be as great because they are not doing any noteworthy damage anymore. They may be still useful - but logic dictates that they cannot be as good if their weapons don't scale. 

So skeletons may not be useless later on - but still a proper weapon scaling for all summons - including skeletons - would make much more sense than the current "solution". Not only in terms of balancing but also when it comes to consistency and what the player expects.

"Look! The great Chanter Sumonitas calls upon Eora his mighty army of Ancient Wiederganger Skeletons. Behold their awesome... erm... rusty swords... which fall apart while they rush forth..? Huh..."

Edited March 30, 2020 by Boeroer

[Elric Galad]

OK, so the to be tested list :
 

 

Barbarian : Totems, but I guess they're not fighting summons anyway

Fighter : Nope

Rogue : Nay

Ranger : Pet, but they are already well documented

Cipher : technically, dominated foes are not summons

Paladin : not really

 

Monks : the twins ! But they are working fine and are basically copy of yourself

 

Wizard :

• Essential Phantom and Substancial Phantom but they are working fine and are basically copy of yourself

• Maura’s Tentacles

• Familiar

 

Priests :

• Spiritual Ally

• The various Incarnates

 

Druids :

• Minor, nomal and greater Blights

• Call of the Primordials

• Lashing Vine

• Fire Stag

• Aspect of Galawain

 

Chanters :

• Skeleton & upgrade

• Ghost & upgrade

• Wurms & upgrade

• Wisps & upgrade

• Ogres & upgrade

• Drakes & upgrade

• Dank Spores & upgrade

• Animated Weapons & upgrade

• Dragon

 

Am I missing anything ?

[Boeroer]

Watery Double and other "unique" summons maybe?

 

[Elric Galad]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

Watery Double and other "unique" summons maybe?

 

Yeah, Ondra Whip and Sporelings too.

[Boeroer]

Xoti's Lashing Vines are a hard copy I presume - so you'd have to check that as well..?

[Elric Galad]

8 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Xoti's Lashing Vines are a hard copy I presume - so you'd have to check that as well..?

Yes, I was thinking about that and all possible Incarnates.

[Elric Galad]

Summon

Spell Stats

Base Stats

Attributes

Armor

Weapon 1

Weapon 2 or shield

General Comments

Duration

Number

Deflection

Fortitude

Reflex

Will

Melee Acc

Ranged Acc

Base Health

Health per level

MIG

CON

DEX

PER

INT

RES

Base

Recovery

Scaling

Damages

Type

PR

Scaling, Item Mod & comments

Damages

Type

PR

Scaling, Item Mod & comments

Maura's Writthing Tentacles

15

3

30

5

30

5

25

25

60

10

14

10

10

12

12

8

6

100%

Normal

7 – 10

CRU/COR

5

Normal scaling

7 – 10

CRU/COR

5

Normal scaling

Immobilizing attacks

 

Here is a sample of Data Mining for 1 Summon ability. I might consider improving the post readability when done (but my 15 months little dragon may wake up anytime so I have to be quick for this time ).

Some notes below :

• Base stats scale per level. Refer to https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/227477-pillars-of-eternity-ii-deadfire/faqs/76599/non-pl-scaling for more information. 
• Note that armor rate may also vary based on the damage type, but I didn't find it significant enough to bother 
• Normal armor scaling means +1AR every 4 levels after level 1 (checked in the code). Refer to https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/227477-pillars-of-eternity-ii-deadfire/faqs/76599/non-pl-scaling 
• If any Weapon 2 considered as "Dual Wielding" (yes, Maura's Writhing Tentacles are coapparently nsidered Dual Wielding, ROFL)
• Normal weapon scaling means +4 Acc, +1PR, +15% damages every 4 levels after level 1 (checked in the code). Refer to https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/227477-pillars-of-eternity-ii-deadfire/faqs/76599/non-pl-scaling for more information.

Note that this table is  based on Gamefiles Data Mining, not individual testing. I'm only going to test it in game to check the princples, not every creatures in the table.

Thanks @thelee for the convenient reference.

Feel free to comment if anything is missing, before I start the process for the rest of the summons.

EDIT : I forgot to check weapon base Recovery : 4s for Maur's Writhing Tentacles.

Hey, that confirms Maur's Writhing tentacles are pretty nice.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Elric Galad

[Boeroer]

5 base PEN is pretty me though. Good that it scales.

By the way: Skeletons' poor swords stay at 4 PEN for all of the game. 4... 

 

...four!

[Elric Galad]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

5 base PEN is pretty me though. Good that it scales.

Yeah but Crush / Corrode type saves it IMHO. Not too bad.

Still 260 HP x3 on lvl 20 is neat for a Tier IV spell.

[thelee]

3 hours ago, Boeroer said:

5 base PEN is pretty me though. Good that it scales.

By the way: Skeletons' poor swords stay at 4 PEN for all of the game. 4... 

 

...four!

hey now - maybe this is dumb and obvious to everyone else but does this mean that summons automatically scale with Veteran and POTD?

I always recorded summons as having generally 7 PEN, but this only makes sense if they are getting +2 from PotD scaling (and skeletons get a further -1 from poor). They also get +15 accuracy/defense from PotD? Also a health boost?

[Boeroer]

Skeletons have swords. Weapons don't scale with difficulty level.

Swords have a base PEN of 6. Poor does -2 PEN.

And thus they are stuck with 4. I mean without any buff like animancy cat etc.

Incidentally just did an Ancient-Brittle-Bones fight on PotD with a lvl-20 Troubadour.

I don't know about the tentacles.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Boeroer