Cipher and stuff help

[fced]

Hello,

I found a lot of items for wizard, keywords on items corresponding to keywords on spells, but as a for Cipher  without subclass with "draining whip" i haven't found any item to help.
i speak of bonus to power level, like those for wizard which increase +2 power level to Illusion or gloves which increase evocation power level), and I have read somewhere White Witch Mask  is good for a Cipher, but on the item the keyword is Illusion, and on Cipher spells, the keywords are Shred/Deception/Echo, i haven't found any item corresponding to Cypher keywords.
Is there a match of some sort between illusion-> Deception, Evocation->Shred ? or is it useless to use items buffing Illusion on a Cipher ?

Any advices ?

Thanks.
 

Edited March 23, 2020 by fced

[Boeroer]

There is none.

As you have guessed, items that mention a PL buff for Illusion only buff the spells that are explicitly tagged with "Illusion" - so basically the properly tagged Wizard spells (no matter if a Wizard has them, a Trickster or a Priest of Wael).

But items with universal Power Level can help you, like Stone of Power for example. If you have two of them you can stack them in the stash. That way they will refresh their charge after each encounter. Also Wellspring of Life (Nature Godlike) will work as a universal PL boost. 

What also works are items with elemental PL buffs - like Otto Starcat (pet, +1 fire PL) or Magran's Favor (+2 fire PL) which boost Soul Ignition or Deltro's Cage (+2 shock PL) which will boost Soul Shock. 

I guess Ciphers didn't get special PL boosters because they have several passives that help them with casting and Ascendant already gets a PL boost while ascended. Wizards, Priests and Druids have only rather generic passives (for casting). 

 

[Heukalyptus]

24 minutes ago, fced said:

I have read somewhere White Witch Mask  is good for a Cypher

Maybe you read about that mod : https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/209

It adds keywords to some abilities, and modifies the Eye of Wael and the Whitewitch Mask to grants PL to both Illusion AND Deception abilities.

[fced]

3 hours ago, Heukalyptus said:

Maybe you read about that mod : https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/209

It adds keywords to some abilities, and modifies the Eye of Wael and the Whitewitch Mask to grants PL to both Illusion AND Deception abilities.

You are probably right, so there is nothing which increase/improve cypher abilities in the game, or whip  ?

[dgray62]

You can also get boost to PL if you multiclass with fighter. The acute inspiration from tactical barrage gives you +1 PL, as does Brilliant if you multiclass as a Tactician, and set up the conditions to gain the Brilliant Tactician status.

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, fced said:

You are probably right, so there is nothing which increase/improve cypher abilities in the game, or whip  ?

I will repeat myself: there is none. 

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, dgray62 said:

You can also get boost to PL if you multiclass with fighter. The acute inspiration from tactical barrage gives you +1 PL, as does Brilliant if you multiclass as a Tactician, and set up the conditions to gain the Brilliant Tactician status.

Thing is you will lose 3 PLs when multiclassing in the first place (taking Prestige into account) Acute or Brilliant will only give you back one out of three temporarily then.

If you only compare with other Cipher/x multiclasses: right.

Edited March 19, 2020 by Boeroer

[fced]

50 minutes ago, dgray62 said:

You can also get boost to PL if you multiclass with fighter. The acute inspiration from tactical barrage gives you +1 PL, as does Brilliant if you multiclass as a Tactician, and set up the conditions to gain the Brilliant Tactician status.

 

4 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Thing is you will lose 3 PLs when multiclassing in the first place (taking Prestige into account) Acute or Brilliant will only give you back one out of three temporarily then.

Of you only compare with other Cipher/x multiclasses: right.

I don't like too much multiclass... most of the best abilities/spells are Tier VIII-IX, but tactician fighter subclass seem interesting. this is why i was looking for gear like "Helm of the white void".

Quote

Tactician Subclass Information
 Bonus:
    •    Restore Discipline when successfully interrupting an enemy action.
    •    Gain Brilliant Tactician.
 Penalty:
    •    Penetration and Accuracy is reduced when attacking a target that is not threatened by an ally.
    •    Gain Tactical Dilemma.

source : https://pillarsofeternity2.wiki.fextralife.com/Tactician
 
When they say "Penetration and Accuracy is reduced when attacking a target that is not threatened by an ally." does this mean the Tactician must attack an enemy which already engaged by another (by melee) ? or does it apply if someone is close and attacking the same enemy with a distant weapon or spells ?

 

 

[Boeroer]

Afaik it also works when they are attacking with ranged weapons. It's the act of clicking on an enemy (with any type of direct attack) that triggers "threatening". The ACC malus isn't that bad. The PEN doesn't matter that much if you a) take the two Cipher PEN passives and b) mostly cast debuffs.

Tactician/Cipher, especially Tactician/Beguiler is a nice combo because of the huge AoE of Phantom Foes (which has the potential to flank all enemies, triggering Brilliant Tactician). Beguiler gets a lot of focus from casting Phantom Foes if he can hit enough enemies. That means you can chain-cast it until really all enemies are flanked --> Brilliant.

Also using Whispers of the Endless Paths with Mule Kick is cool as a Tactician (disorients in a cone - and Disoriented contains Flanked).

 

 

[AeonsLegend]

10 minutes ago, fced said:

 

I don't like too much multiclass... most of the best abilities/spells are Tier VIII-IX, but tactician fighter subclass seem interesting. this is why i was looking for gear like "Helm of the white void".

source : https://pillarsofeternity2.wiki.fextralife.com/Tactician
 
When they say "Penetration and Accuracy is reduced when attacking a target that is not threatened by an ally." does this mean the Tactician must attack an enemy which already engaged by another (by melee) ? or does it apply if someone is close and attacking the same enemy with a distant weapon or spells ?

 

 

Threatened means that a character is attacking an enemy. Engagement is not required.

Cipher's most powerful offensive abilities are at level VII so if you're worried about damage when multiclassing then I don't think it's an issue. My Psyblade Ascendant deals over 500 single target raw damage with Disintigration and 140 blunt AoE damage with Amplified Wave. You miss out on Defensive Mindweb which imo is the best of the VIII/IX abilities. I've also tried the level IX abilities and they seem strong, but are kinda meh. Disintigrate does more damage than Death of 1000 Cuts. It's nice to have Death of 1000 Cuts if you're going single class, but it's defintely not necessary. Driving Echoes is circumstantial, but unnecessary. I think the only downside to multi with Cipher is that you cannot get all of the great abilities, but you will get most of them. Single class Ascendant is defintely viable and really strong. Party up with another Cipher and you can get +4 PL on top of your base PL.

[Boeroer]

Try Forbidden Fist/Beguiler and deal astonishing amounts of dmg with Disintegrate (because of Psychovampiric Shield + Enfeebled +10 INT).

Ascendant also works but it's kind of a bummer that Forbidden Fist (ability) doesn't generate focus. Beguiler can get full focus just from casting debuffs.

[fced]

When i fighted the mega boss (Ooze), i really had hard time, may be i wasn't correctly prepared, but only thing which was helping against the giant Ooze (before it split) was Cypher Driving Echoes and of course Ancestor's Memory.

Serafen was the Cypher, my watcher a Wizard, Xoti as priest, a Kind wayfarer paladin, and Eder as fighter... I also got a lot of problems to generate enough focus for Serafen spells (may be because he was using the two unique portable mortar)..

I left the fight ( i spent all my ressources fighting the big one), when the two ooze reunited into the big one,. i didn't realized they could do that.

It is this fight which made me realize how penetration was important, and also Brilliant inspiration.

Edited March 20, 2020 by fced

[Boeroer]

This fight should also teach you that interrupts are important. 

[fced]

11 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

This fight should also teach you that interrupts are important. 

agreed, everybody in my team have a crossbow or arbalest, and also some interrupt abilities (or inflict terror), but except for cypher interrupt abilities help only 4 times each maximum, and against enemies like the Giant Ooze which have so much resistance this don't help a lot.
https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Hauani_O_Whe

Deflection		106
Reflex		152
Fortitude		174
Will		132

Edited March 20, 2020 by fced

[Boeroer]

His defenses are not that high, especially not deflection. With interrupts you can keep the separate oozes from merging. Some abilites interrupt on graze. It should not be hard to graze 106 deflection.

[AeonsLegend]

 

2 hours ago, fced said:

Cypher

*Cipher

[fced]

2 minutes ago, AeonsLegend said:

 

*Cipher

very interesting, i will search about this stuff.

[fced]

On 3/19/2020 at 3:18 PM, Boeroer said:

There is none.

But items with universal Power Level can help you, like Stone of Power for example. If you have two of them you can stack them in the stash. That way they will refresh their charge after each encounter. Also Wellspring of Life (Nature Godlike) will work as a universal PL boost. 

What also works are items with elemental PL buffs - like Otto Starcat (pet, +1 fire PL) or Magran's Favor (+2 fire PL) which boost Soul Ignition or Deltro's Cage (+2 shock PL) which will boost Soul Shock.

Great, i was using stone of power in my first game, but never thought i could use it like you said...

[Boeroer]

It's not intended that they regain their charges via stashing but an oversight. So it's a little bit cheesy.