Sage help

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I'm considering making a sage for my next Deadfire playthrough and wanted some help. Currently I'm torn between three ideas, 1) a 2-hander Shattered Pillar that uses Citzal's Spirit Lance (WotEP and Willbreaker as backup weapons), a Nalpazca dual wielder that uses Modwyr + something else, or a Forbidden Fist that uses the exploit for infinite Draining Touch. Are there any items in particular I should look out for and any trap abilities I should avoid?

[Boeroer]

Swift Flurry doesn't work with the Forbidden Fist Ability - so maybe you shouldn't pick that when using Forbidden Fist but take Lightning Strikes instead. Draining Touch doesn't profit from any "unarmed" passives like Transcendent Sufferig etc. But Miasma + Dazzling Lights (-50 Will) are your friends when using Draining Touch (targets Will instead of Deflection).

Shattered Pillar only has 5 wounds max which limits the INT-boost from Turning Wheel to 5. Which is a pity when using Citzal's SL - since its AoE would grow with more INT. However, Shattered Pillar with WotEP and Wizard's defensive buffs can be great if you pick Offensive Parry (NOT Blade Form) as enchantment: every miss of an enemy triggers Offensive Parry which generates wounds for the Shattered Pillar(!). It also works with Swift Flurry by the way. You can even stack tons of bonuses against disengagement attacks (Graceful Retreat + Tumbling + Fleet Feet + Boots of Speed + Gipon Pridensco and so on) and then disengage intentionally - you will be unhittable and trigger lots of Offensive Parries, giving you wounds (and dealing damage). Also nice in combo with Combusting Wounds. Also all kinds of spells that reduce enemies' accuracy help enormously (Chillfog, Miasma etc.).

I played a Shattered Pillar/Soulblade recently (for double resource generation on every Offensive Parry) and the wound generation was great and happens "on the fly". 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I mostly want to use Forbidden Fist with Draining Touch for thematic reasons and consistent Con afflictions tbh, I wasn't expecting it to scale with unarmed abilities else it'd be as broken as the Woedica spiritual weapon used to be.

I'm going to use the Community Patch, and I believe that it raises wound limit to 10 for Shattered Pillar. Does WotEP work with Instruments of Pain in the same way Citzal's Spirit Lance?

[Boeroer]

No, unfortunately the cone of WotEP will stay in melee (originates from player) while the initial attack will have the increased range. It can have it's merits but in general that's not the best combo.

If you are using Community Patch then Shattered Pillar is fine. Just save before you consider Lesser Wounds: afaik it resets the wound limit to 5 again. Maybe it got fixed in between. Can't say. Unfortunately @MaxQuest and @Phenomenum seem to have abandoned this forum.

with Community Patch Forbidden Fist is also a proper weapon attack and thus works with Swift Flurry.

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by Boeroer

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Huh, guess I'll have to avoid Lesser Wounds then. Thanks for your help.

[Boeroer]

Maybe save before leveling up and try it out.

Might be it got fixed, I don't know for sure.

Edit: I just fired it up and did a quick console check: it's still the case. So yeah, best to stay away from Lesser Wounds as a Shattered Pillar when using the Community Patch.

Edited October 16, 2019 by Boeroer

[Elric Galad]

On ‎10‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 7:49 AM, Boeroer said:

No, unfortunately the cone of WotEP will stay in melee (originates from player) while the initial attack will have the increased range. It can have it's merits but in general that's not the best combo.

If you are using Community Patch then Shattered Pillar is fine. Just save before you consider Lesser Wounds: afaik it resets the wound limit to 5 again. Maybe it got fixed in between. Can't say. Unfortunately @MaxQuest and @Phenomenum seem to have abandoned this forum.

with Community Patch Forbidden Fist is also a proper weapon attack and thus works with Swift Flurry.

 

For your information @Boeroer, 

I've started modding the game yesterday and I corrected this bug : Shattered Pillar now gets 10 wounds even with Lesser Wounds with this modification.

Feel free to suggest any other correction or improvement, I'm working from the Community Patch basis.

[Boeroer]

You could add the "weapon" tag to Inner Death like it was added to Forbidden Fist.

Edited January 16, 2020 by Boeroer

[Elric Galad]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

You could add the "weapon" tag to Inner Death like it was added to Forbidden Fist.

I thought about that since you mentionned it recently.

I'm just a bit afraid of the interation between Swift Flurry/HBD and Inner Death + Empowered Strike. Wouldn't it lead to even more OPness if additional Inner Death proc also benefit from empowered Strike ?

I also admit buffing SC Monk is not my priority .  

I added this to my list anyway, I'll probably give it a try anyway at some point to see how the mechanic works.

[Waski]

26 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

Wouldn't it lead to even more OPness if additional Inner Death proc also benefit from empowered Strike ?

Swift flurry/HBD proc main weapon attack only.

[Elric Galad]

26 minutes ago, Waski said:

Swift flurry/HBD proc main weapon attack only.

What would be the use of this melee tag then ?

Instrument of Pain range multplication ? Bonus from Tuotilio's palm ?

[Boeroer]

12 hours ago, Waski said:

Swift flurry/HBD proc main weapon attack only.

Huh? It works with every melee weapon attack no matter if it's your main weapon or not. It even works with "bash" from shields like T's Palm and also with Riposte and Offensive Parry. But it doesn't repeat the whole execution of an ability (like repeating a Full Attack) - it only repeats the single hit roll it procs off of. S for example with Sun & Moon it doesn't repeat both attack rolls of both flail heads but only the one it got triggered off.  Same with WotEP: it only repeats the attack roll on the initial target but not the AoE cone.

Maybe I misunderstood you though. Did you mean that it would get triggered but the additional attacks would be done with the main weapon? That may be correct.

Forbidden Fist + community patch worked just fine with Swift Flurry for me (I mean oit got triggered). At least last time I played a Forbidden Fist (which was right after CP was released).

So I assume that Inner Death would work the same once the weapon tag got added. If only the weapon gets to do the additional attacks then even better (because less balancing problems).

12 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

What would be the use of this melee tag then ?

It already has a melee tag. It lacks a "weapon" tag. The use would be that it triggers Swift Flurry/Heartbeat Drumming, yes. Also works with Lightning Strikes and Turning Wheel I presume (didn't check if those already work which may well be). Since Swift FLurry usually is a worse pick than Lightning Strikes against everything but non-trash mobs I find it unfair that it even gets excluded from stuff that's not properly tagged. You execute those abilites with your fists I presume which should be weapons (I mean if you picture the monk doing it). So why no weapon tag? I guess it is a mere oversight. 

13 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

I'm just a bit afraid of the interation between Swift Flurry/HBD and Inner Death + Empowered Strike. Wouldn't it lead to even more OPness if additional Inner Death proc also benefit from empowered Strike ?

You mean it could potentially one-shot enemies? As it already does?

Jokes aside: If you want it to make a reasonable aternative to Whispers of the Wind or other empowered PL-9 stuff (look at empowered Missile Salvo or empowered Greater Maelstrom) then you should add this. Keep in mind that it would only play a role against bosses with 300+ hp pool - all others would die anyway. I doubt that you'll get a chain reaction from Empowered Strikes. Afaik the additional attacks from SF/HBD will not be empowered and thus will not get +100 PEN and ACC - and then the high defenses of bosses will prevent a massive flurry chain. And the combined chance on crit is < 50% anyways. Also you can't use it endlessly like WotW because you pay with Mortification, not wounds.

Worth a try I'd say. If it's too strong then it's easy to revert.

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by Boeroer

[Waski]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

It works with every melee weapon attack no matter if it's your main weapon or not. It even works with "bash" from shields like T's Palm and also with Riposte and Offensive

What I meant is that additional attacks are from main hand. 

 

14 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Wouldn't it lead to even more OPness if additional Inner Death proc also benefit from empowered Strike ?

I understood that Elric was concerned that Inner death will proc another inner death.

[Elric Galad]

3 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Worth a try I'd say. If it's too strong then it's easy to revert.

Testing would be necessary for this one I guess.

I will do this as part of my Monk ability rework... which is currently an empty bar this list since all monks abilities are strong enough IMHO . Much more stuff to do with other classes.

[Boeroer]

6 hours ago, Waski said:

What I meant is that additional attacks are from main hand. 

 

I understood that Elric was concerned that Inner death will proc another inner death.

Okay, then I get it. Thanks for your clarification.

[Boeroer]

5 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Testing would be necessary for this one I guess.

I will do this as part of my Monk ability rework... which is currently an empty bar this list since all monks abilities are strong enough IMHO . Much more stuff to do with other classes.

True

[Elric Galad]

On 1/16/2020 at 7:12 PM, Boeroer said:

You could add the "weapon" tag to Inner Death like it was added to Forbidden Fist.

I tried this evening, HBD, andWeakening Strikes applied, but the result are weird for HBD.

Sometimes, HBD triggered an attack, sometimes another Inner Death.

The normal attack even got the +300% damages bonus from Inner Death on a Crit.

Honnestly, this seems too umpredictable to include. I kept the mod file just in case though.

[Boeroer]

Uh, weird...