Spellblade (Assassin / Evoker) - Help me with some input

[Seccirsin]

Hello guys,

First a little intro.
I'm the type of person who waits until everything is released and patched, then goes for 100% completion. I also love theorycrafting and have a tendency to reroll A LOT.
Somewhat recently I finished PoE1 (PoTD with scaling, ended game with 0 knockouts all around) with a rogue. My end game party was (Eder, GM, Durance, Aloth, Hiravias)
I did enjoy the build, it was single target focused and once bosses were Bloodied I could just delete them with Finishing Blow. Quite satisfying. 
Sure, I was rather squishy and I had to use clever positioning and pick the correct targets, but either way, it was a style I did enjoy.

Now I've started PoE2 Deadfire on PoTD with only Critical Path scaling. I tried some builds (without prior planning) but I ended up dumping them all around level 9-10.
So, for the past couple of days I've been doing some research on certain builds, skills and classes. Here's what I'm thinking.

Class: Spellblade (Evoker/Assassin)
Race: Human (just RP value)
Stats: Might 18, Con 8, Dex 10, Per 16, Int 18, Res 8

My playstyle would be the following:

1. Trash mobs
Buff Infuse, Mirror Image, Illengrath Safeguard, Fleet Feet or Deleterious (others like Ryngrim's or Arcane reflection are situational)
Run or Escape into center of enemy
Use Torrent of Flame
Smoke Cloud
Delay Fireball + Normal fireball

I believe this should be enough to clear most mobs, and I could follow with either more nukes or going melee.


2. Bosses (and Megabosses)
Buff Infuse, Mirror Image, Illengrath Safeguard, Zandethus' Draconic Fury (+ others depending)
Use Toxic Strike, Gouging strike and Deep wounds to apply stacking DoTs
Go invisible and nuke / melee away
If it's not enough, use empower to refill and apply a new set of DoTs
Use Marux Amanth as a finisher.


I could use some input on this.

Do you guys think it's viable in PoTD?
Are the wizards buffs enough for me to act as an offtank?
Is a tactic like this sound for bosses/megabosses? (have no prior experience, so i'm going by ear)
Bonus: Does Combusting Wounds trigger with Toxic Strike/Gouging Strike/Deep wounds ticks ?

I'm also open to new ideas, but I'm keen on a theme like this. Imagine Kassadin from League of Legends. Something like that, play and style, is what I'm after and enjoy.
 

[Waski]

Spellblade is fun but I wouldn't go with evoker. To many good spells  to pass out (spirit lance, slicken, combusting wounds, wall of flame, ninagauths spells,). Just spirit lance is worth a lot for spellblade - you can apply all dots in AoE ( arterial strike + pull of eora can melt a lot enemies).

combusting wound won't trigger on dots, only on dmg with roll

[Enoch]

13 minutes ago, Waski said:

Spellblade is fun but I wouldn't go with evoker. To many good spells  to pass out (spirit lance, slicken, combusting wounds, wall of flame, ninagauths spells,). Just spirit lance is worth a lot for spellblade - you can apply all dots in AoE ( arterial strike + pull of eora can melt a lot enemies).

combusting wound won't trigger on dots, only on dmg with roll

Assassin-Evoker works, but it's not a melee build.  You open with a ranged nuke from stealth, disappear, and repeat. 

If you want the flexibility to transition effectively between nuker-Spellblade and gish-Spellblade, you probably have to accept being less good at either and stick to the base classes. 

[Seccirsin]

I did think about this. About using either Spirit Lance, WotEP or Wahai Pōraga. My conclusion was that such items are very good when dealing with mob type enemies, but I could achieve more or less the same result with a few spells from invisibility. I'm not 100% sure, it's just an educated guess.
I was well aware I would lose some nice utility spells by going evoker and I was ok with it. My other choice would've been Blood Mage, but I don't think it's a good synergy with Assassin (maybe with Streefighter once I get Bloodied?)

Anyway, I am aiming for single target power. I want to be able to melt a boss like it's nobody's business. And since i'm playing on PoTD, my reasoning was that DoT would work better due to longer bosses fights and I only need to bring them to 1/4 before I could go for the finisher with Marux Amanth


@Enoch

My strategy for bosses will be to open with a good nuke from stealth (if possible), then go layout some DoTs and go invisible.
Then I will either Smoke+Nuke or just melee until i get the boss near death.
I'm just not sure how this will fare against the mega bosses or other nasty stuff out there.


Also, I'm open to other suggestions for single target classes they can lay out some good punishment.

Edited July 31, 2019 by Seccirsin

[Waski]

4 hours ago, Seccirsin said:

Anyway, I am aiming for single target power. I want to be able to melt a boss like it's nobody's business. And since i'm playing on PoTD, my reasoning was that DoT would work better due to longer bosses fights and I only need to bring them to 1/4 before I could go for the finisher with Marux Amanth

Sorry to break your  dreams but that's no business for evoker,  no wall of draining,  no slicken,  no combusting wounds,  no death ring.  Maybe if you give him brilliant ( like from cipher spell)  and you sacrifice priest to SoT him all the time( but he will need brilliant too)  you can deal some dmg.  You have to be aware that  fight  like Dorudugan it's 20k hp to grind,  Hauani whole fight it's maybe double ( guess)  of that.  Some SSS fights can be several thousand of dmg needed.  Few nukes from evoker won't make a difference. 

[Ophiuchus]

I can't vouch for megabosses but Assassin/Evoker should be fine. All those utility niceties like Slicken and Miasma can be slotted on a friendly Geomancer; a Priest cheesing Salvation of Time with Brilliance from a Cipher can make up for Wall of Draining. Your goal is to deal damage so focus on that.

[Seccirsin]

1 hour ago, Waski said:

Sorry to break your  dreams but that's no business for evoker,  no wall of draining,  no slicken,  no combusting wounds,  no death ring.  Maybe if you give him brilliant ( like from cipher spell)  and you sacrifice priest to SoT him all the time( but he will need brilliant too)  you can deal some dmg.  You have to be aware that  fight  like Dorudugan it's 20k hp to grind,  Hauani whole fight it's maybe double ( guess)  of that.  Some SSS fights can be several thousand of dmg needed.  Few nukes from evoker won't make a difference.

Fair enough.

But, will something like stacking DoT work on megabosses? I mean, using Gouging Strike + Toxic Strike + Deep Wounds

LE: Did anyone try Zandethus' Draconic Fury? I picked it up via console and it looks awesome, but I haven't done any field testing with it. 

Edited July 31, 2019 by Seccirsin

[Waski]

1 hour ago, Seccirsin said:

Fair enough.

But, will something like stacking DoT work on megabosses? I mean, using Gouging Strike + Toxic Strike + Deep Wounds

LE: Did anyone try Zandethus' Draconic Fury? I picked it up via console and it looks awesome, but I haven't done any field testing with it. 

gouging strike is gamebraking if you want to abuse it ( especially vs megabosses), toxic strike with high INT and any AoE weapon can be really nice against low to mid mobs, but DoTs besides cheesing gouging strike and cheesing axe modal + blade cascade  it's not worth vs megabosses

any lash is awesome on rouge (ie: draconic fury)

[Seccirsin]

@Waski

Did some further testing(with 18 int) and while the damage on Toxic Strike is nice, I don't think it will work that good on bosses as I initially thought. Also the guile cost is a bummer.

Now, i've been pondering on other builds, so if possible I'd like your input.

1. Holy Slayer (Trickster + Steel Garrote)
2. Arcane Knight (Blood Mage + Steel Garrote)
3. Spell blade (Trickster/Streetfighter + Blood Mage)
4. Mindstalker (Trickster + Ascendant)

After some consideration, while going invisible + nuke sounds fun as an assassin + evoker, I'm starting to doubt how good it may be against more beefy opponents and how good of a sustain it has.

Edited July 31, 2019 by Seccirsin

[Vonbek]

@Seccirsin Currently testing Trickster/HelWalker ShadowDancer with Turning Wheel on a Hearth Orlan and then building for capped STR / 30 INT ( 35 if someone else slaps an Int Buff on Him ) and then Malux/Rusts plus as much crit abuse as I can including Power of Money once I had the spare cash to make it worth it.

 

Above all it wasn't too squishy and is actually fun and easy to AI code for.

Hits : 3930 / Crits : 2974

It's currently able to cheese Wounds happily off Parting Sorrow and Mortification of the Soul quickly enough to keep up Thunderous and full buff of Wheel, and between all the attacks always be getting Sneak Attack buff via Persistent Distraction etc.

Highest Single Target ?  427 ( looks good to me, though I'm not sure if it could be better )

• str : base 15 -1 orlan +2 ogre/grasp +1 Gift +1 Maneha +2 BB : 20 before Buffs, 35 after HW and Thunderous
• con : base 10 +2 BB :12
• dex : base 7 +2 BB +1 Deadfire ( RP ) +1 Boots of Stone +5 Swift Strikes : 16
• Per :  base 18 +2 BB +2 Orlan +1 Ajmut Cloak : 23 
• Int : base 18 +2 BB : 20, 30 after Wheel
• Res : base 9 +2 BB +1 Orlan +1 Boots of Stone +1 Nalvi : 14

Important Equipment : DoC, Ajamuts, Rusts ( speed stack on crit ), Malux, whatever str gloves get you to 20 if needed because of racials or other Sac or Gift choices, Personal preference for Pet is nalvi for the Recovery Reduction on top of DoC

Important Skills : even easier. whatever fits your playstyle as long as you've got Persistent Distraction, Swift Strikes, Heartbeat Drumming, Thunderous Blows, Turning Wheel, Deep Wounds, and Deathblows

 

Pros : not that squishy, fun, solid Lash increases via TW and Deep Wounds, massive DPS Ramp off HW class bonus and Thunderous, really explodes once Deathblows is available due to the fact PD and others mean it's always active, also synergises well with both Rust and Malux

Cons : really needs Dagger modal early on until you can get Blade Turning and better DEF

 

 

 

 

[Waski]

8 minutes ago, Vonbek said:

@Seccirsin Currently testing Trickster/HelWalker ShadowDancer with Turning Wheel on a Hearth Orlan and then building for capped STR / 30 INT ( 35 if someone else slaps an Int Buff on Him ) and then Malux/Rusts plus as much crit abuse as I can including Power of Money once I had the spare cash to make it worth it.

 

Above all it wasn't too squishy and is actually fun and easy to AI code for.

Hits : 3930 / Crits : 2974

It's currently able to cheese Wounds happily off Parting Sorrow and Mortification of the Soul quickly enough to keep up Thunderous and full buff of Wheel, and between all the attacks always be getting Sneak Attack buff via Persistent Distraction etc.

Highest Single Target ?  427 ( looks good to me, though I'm not sure if it could be better )

• str : base 15 -1 orlan +2 ogre/grasp +1 Gift +1 Maneha +2 BB : 20 before Buffs, 35 after HW and Thunderous
• con : base 10 +2 BB :12
• dex : base 7 +2 BB +1 Deadfire ( RP ) +1 Boots of Stone +5 Swift Strikes : 16
• Per :  base 18 +2 BB +2 Orlan +1 Ajmut Cloak : 23 
• Int : base 18 +2 BB : 20, 30 after Wheel
• Res : base 9 +2 BB +1 Orlan +1 Boots of Stone +1 Nalvi : 14

Important Equipment : DoC, Ajamuts, Rusts ( speed stack on crit ), Malux, whatever str gloves get you to 20 if needed because of racials or other Sac or Gift choices, Personal preference for Pet is nalvi for the Recovery Reduction on top of DoC

Important Skills : even easier. whatever fits your playstyle as long as you've got Persistent Distraction, Swift Strikes, Heartbeat Drumming, Thunderous Blows, Turning Wheel, Deep Wounds, and Deathblows

 

Pros : not that squishy, fun, solid Lash increases via TW and Deep Wounds, massive DPS Ramp off HW class bonus and Thunderous, really explodes once Deathblows is available due to the fact PD and others mean it's always active, also synergises well with both Rust and Malux

Cons : really needs Dagger modal early on until you can get Blade Turning and better DEF

 

 

 

 

i love anything x/monk and if you want see some shadowdancer action check this out(all log is one attack)

 

 

 

[Waski]

but he won't shine with outside help(brilliant/sustain) vs anything really sturdy

[Vonbek]

13 minutes ago, Waski said:

i love anything x/monk and if you want see some shadowdancer action check this out(all log is one attack)

Wasn't sure about them myself... then tried a Dev/HW and that was fun with Modwyr/Watchers as a variant of the AC Lady of Pain... then I saw Malux Finally and also looked at how well Rogue was able to do debuffing via Trickster while also making Sneak Attack trigger.

 

After about 15 minutes trying a Shadowdancer I was hooked/

[Waski]

2 hours ago, Seccirsin said:

@Waski

Did some further testing(with 18 int) and while the damage on Toxic Strike is nice, I don't think it will work that good on bosses as I initially thought. Also the guile cost is a bummer.

Now, i've been pondering on other builds, so if possible I'd like your input.

1. Holy Slayer (Trickster + Steel Garrote)
2. Arcane Knight (Blood Mage + Steel Garrote)
3. Spell blade (Trickster/Streetfighter + Blood Mage)
4. Mindstalker (Trickster + Ascendant)

After some consideration, while going invisible + nuke sounds fun as an assassin + evoker, I'm starting to doubt how good it may be against more beefy opponents and how good of a sustain it has.

2. arcane knight

3.spell blade 

with blood mage  it's base for soloing for 99% of game so really strong 

[Waski]

4 minutes ago, Vonbek said:

Wasn't sure about them myself... then tried a Dev/HW and that was fun with Modwyr/Watchers as a variant of the AC Lady of Pain... then I saw Malux Finally and also looked at how well Rogue was able to do debuffing via Trickster while also making Sneak Attack trigger.

 

After about 15 minutes trying a Shadowdancer I was hooked/

try SC helwaker or nalpazca, it doesn't look like at first glance but  that some crazy dps 

[Seccirsin]

12 minutes ago, Waski said:

2. arcane knight

3.spell blade 

with blood mage  it's base for soloing for 99% of game so really strong 

Won't the defenses against bloodied attackers hurt me?
Also, it seems Blood Mage is more suitable for nuking, rather then going into melee. It seems to be basic nuke > sacrifice > nuke rotation. Or am I missing something?

Oh yeah, I dislike monks or similar classes in any game on MC.

[Waski]

1 minute ago, Seccirsin said:

Won't the defenses against bloodied attackers hurt me?
Also, it seems Blood Mage is more suitable for nuking, rather then going into melee. It seems to be basic nuke > sacrifice > nuke rotation. Or am I missing something?

Oh yeah, I dislike monks or similar classes in any game on MC.

You don't really feel that ( i've soloed with bloodmage/helwalker, killled all megabosses). What you missing (i think, sorry) is experience with lv20 gameplay and enemies. Brilliant , SoT, BDD, bloodmage+health regeneration+ wall off draining use , blade cascade, conduit etc

trash fight is just trash fight, you can pull nice numbers but its tricky vs opponent with smth like 150 score in defences

[Seccirsin]

1 hour ago, Waski said:

You don't really feel that ( i've soloed with bloodmage/helwalker, killled all megabosses). What you missing (i think, sorry) is experience with lv20 gameplay and enemies. Brilliant , SoT, BDD, bloodmage+health regeneration+ wall off draining use , blade cascade, conduit etc

trash fight is just trash fight, you can pull nice numbers but its tricky vs opponent with smth like 150 score in defences

You're right, I do lack end game experience.
This is also the reason why i'm asking around. It would be disappointing to reach the high level content and find my build lacking, because I'm the kind of person who'll delete his run and start again.

Could you provide some insight into what i should concern myself with? Sustain? Defenses? Burst?

[Vonbek]

10 hours ago, Seccirsin said:

You're right, I do lack end game experience.
This is also the reason why i'm asking around. It would be disappointing to reach the high level content and find my build lacking, because I'm the kind of person who'll delete his run and start again.

Could you provide some insight into what i should concern myself with? Sustain? Defenses? Burst?

Mostly Sustain seems to be my experience so far, apart from certain broken abilities there isn't many things that don't require you to keep casting somehow. 

 

That's why you seem to either need a renewable class like Monk/Chanter/Cipher or a source of Brilliant in case the fight is one of the longer ones. After that I work on Defence > Burst > CC > DPS > Alpha ( mainly because the DPS of a body on the floor is 0 ) and it's been doing fine for me.

 

Also unless you go actual fists, Monk in this game is more like Kensai from AD&D. It's a Fighter Kit with some bonuses on top for bare hand, I've yet to actually run any of my monk characters or companions without weapons.

 

11 hours ago, Waski said:

try SC helwaker or nalpazca, it doesn't look like at first glance but  that some crazy dps 

I'm guessing to get Whispers and Imagined Pain and Resonant? Also I just don't like the issue with Naz and Dampener, so would always be HW as I'm getting used to them. Still trying to work out how you get FF to work.