Benjas Fan Diary #1: June and POE2`s big mistake

[benjas]

Hello, fellow adventurers!

I am a student at the University of Oslo in Norway. As a fervent POE fan, I have decided that I want to start a series of fan diaries (preferably monthly), where I discuss game design, narrative choices and the setting of Eora. The goal for the project is to stimulate forth interesting discussion regarding the POE games, and produce new and cool thoughts for the dev team to consume in the process of creating new content for the (hopefully) upcoming Pillars of Eternity 3. I will try not to spam ideas for plot, as doing so might hamper the devs creative freedom.

For this month I want to discuss what might be a controversial stance regarding what I consider POE2`s big mistake: Neketaka. In creating Neketaka it is obvious that the dev team was inspired by BG2`s Athkatla. Athkatla was in many ways the best metropolis in the RPG genre, it was huge, vibrant and dynamic. But it was not the amount of zones alone that made Athkatla great, it was how the quests and events were connected across zones and time (several acts) to make the city feel alive.

Neketaka attempts to copy this formula and only partially suceeds. One option would be to make the city bigger, and that could have been done in an expansion (and that might have been more popular among the fans, than the current somewhat disconnected expansions). Another option would be to undertake the challenge of making quests and events more dynamic, reactive to player agency and connected. Quests that change and alter the game world would be a great idea, events should shape and alter the game. Leaders should rise and fall, new people should arrive, others leave, and buildings should be destroyed and created through player agency and events. This constitutes the part of having several acts. Having an early main game and than a brief and disconnected endgame is not enough. Also, the devs should consider an substantial epilogue act in their new games. Players demand more from narratives these days, and having the opportunity to revisit the differents parts of the game world to see how their choices (throughout the game, and at the crucial climax or bos fight) have affected them would satisfy many players. The best example of doing this right in a narrative is the Lord of the Rings. The story didn`t end when the ring was destroyed, the reader got to witness Aragorn`s coronation and the scouring of the Shire.

This leads to my analysis of Neketaka as a mistake. An option to having a big sprawling metropolis would be to have several cities. This could be done in this way: imagine having four cities instead of just one. Upgrading Port Maje, Dunnage and Sayuka to major cities, with the factions spread out into each. Queen`s Berth could be "moved" (in size of content, not actually the zone) to Port Maje, the Brass Citadel to Sayuka and etc. Having several cities would (if done right), make the world feel bigger and more alive. Quests could send the player back and forth on missions and jobs, each city could idealize the philosophy of each faction, and give the player a sense of a real choice between alternatives, not just choosing which flavor prevails. The worst example of player agency being reduced to a sorry state, is the anti-climactic color choice endings of Mass Effect 3. Choice between factions should have massive implications in the game world, and preferably factions should have different endings entirely. All factions racing for Ukaizo isn`t fun, having the Huana wanting to capture Ukaizo and making the Huana great again (sic), while the Principi wants to raid and pillage the towns (Port Maje and Sayuka), but then the Vailians wanting to infiltrate and negotiate control over all the other factions, while the Rauataian RDC ending would be invading and conquering Neketaka, that would be fun. The maritime shipbased nature of Deadfire would also be improved as having several cities would better justify the naval element and the point of actually travelling in the game.

Each city should have had about three major districts each to work. For the example of Port Maje, it would require the Port Maje docks, the equivalent of Queen`s Berth and a third new zone to feel sufficiently large enough to be experienced as a "city". Another feature could be caravan quests where the player would ferry cargo between cities, engage in merchant intrigues for the best deals, and avoid pirates on the prowl for prizes. This gameplay would be a welcome alternative to the somewhat grind-like experience of pirate bounties. Bounties are great, but only interacting with pirates to collect bounties are not great. Having commerce represented in the game would make the maritime world of the Deadfire feel more vibrant and living.

Metropolis cities are great, but they are not the only option. For Deadfire perhaps having several cities instead of just one, might have been a better design choice. But having at least one major city in the games is a must. The devs should consider having several spread out cities instead of just one metropolis. Adopting this idea for a sequel game: how about having the Rauataian capital Takowa, one of the major five Vailian republic cities and one Aedyran city in the same game and a Indiana Jones style world map, fast travelling between the regions, with each region holding many zones. Not everyone will agree on which options is best for an RPG, and not everyone will agree spread out cities would be better for the maritime Deadfire. I still think such an option would better suit the Deadfire region, the maritime gameplay and the game. I do of course consider it a possibility that the developers have already considered this, and chose to go with one singular big city. Regardless, I would welcome hearing both the devs and the fans thought on this subject.

Preview for July: Eidomancer (Eidolon + mancy), a new class having ghosts as companion pets (aka hunter pets), the ability to mind control enemies through having the ghosts possessing them, and finding ghosts as collectables. Gotta catch them all!

Signing out for now.

Friendly regards, from Benjamin

Edited June 8, 2019 by benjas

[algroth]

I'll offer a counterpoint to your argument above: to me Athkatla was basically the finest city hub we'd seen in an RPG... Up until Neketaka. To me Neketaka isn't a problem in the game, if anything it is its biggest virtue; yet I see your post is less about an Athkatla/Neketaka comparison so I'll leave that for another topic, as there's much to discuss here already. Anyways, I feel that you are ignoring a lot of the aspects that grouping the warring factions in a single city add to the overall conflict and depiction of themes and so on. The conflicts surrounding Neketaka isn't just one of interest, it is likewise a cultural clash, and whilst we see plenty of it all across the Deadfire it is never clearer than in that single place where all cultures are constantly interacting with one another and melding, not just at an interpersonal level but right down to the fusion in architecture, aesthetics and the likes. There is a tension to the design of Neketaka that is not merely apparent in the dialogue and interactions, but in the city's construction, layout and aesthetic itself, which would never have had the same effect were we to split the influence of every faction evenly across the different smaller towns. For that specifically we already have a representative settlement for each, in the shape of Port Maje, Sayuka, Dunnage and Tikawara - what tensions and conflicts there are to explore in each I feel are handled solidly too, from the Huana camps in Sayuka to the history of conflicts with slavers and isolationist tendencies in Tikawara, and so on; and much as you propose in your alternative, I feel these already showcase perfectly the philosophies and worldview each faction holds.

There was also a practical reason behind the presence of one big city opposite to multiple, from a production standpoint, which the devs spoke of a fair bit during production. As you probably are aware of, the first Pillars had two big city hubs opposite to a single one, in both Defiance Bay and Twin Elms. The response to this was... Somewhat mixed, from both the devs and players alike: the players felt Defiance Bay never felt as lively as an Athkatla, and that Twin Elms felt a little scarce in content, and the devs agreed on both cases and likewise felt like their time to come up with in-depth content and proper detail to render such areas was cut short by this division, forcing them to rush the two somewhat. Whilst having four city hubs with an adequate density of content and attention to detail would sound like a dream come true for many, the kind of work required for that would be exorbitant and the likely effect would be one where all four cities underwhelm instead (and as a small gameplay-related quibble here, if many of the quests across these cities would involve doing stuff in other cities, this would also add a lot of backtreading which is usually best avoided in any game, let alone RPGs which tend to be especially notorious for this). In theory one could split a city as dense in content as Athkatla or Neketaka into four smaller cities without losing on the amount of content present in the game, but in practice, psychologically at least the effect seems a lot less appealing.

There's also the matter of what having four big cities means from a setting perspective too - the Deadfire isn't meant to be a place that's very securely settled and has had all these cultures inhabiting it and building settlements on it for centuries, they're literally new to the region, much of which is yet "undiscovered". The settlements are precisely that: settlements. You can see how the majority of Port Maje and Dunnage's buildings seem haphazard and not made with longevity in mind - in the former's case you can even see the state of the wooden planks comprising the walls of the Kraken's Eye for example already rotting away and losing their blue coat of painting. These settlements are *meant* to be small, they're there as an enterprise that even when we arrive to the place the mayor himself is unsure of its present or long-term success. Sayuka is very much a straight military camp. Tikawara has literally built huts out of ship hulls to try and show they're an actual village to those who come and visit them. To make any of these a city would be to dilute the point that all of this conquest, all of this expedition and process of colonization is at a very early stage and happening in the *now*, not decades or even centuries ago. That Neketaka's a massive city as it is has its reasons, but most of all it is because it's the centre of the Deadfire in terms geographical and power-based, it's the capital of the Huana as a culture and the one city presumably preceeding the colonist expeditions and so on. It is, strategically, the only place you'd want to set your base for your expedition (relating somewhat to theories of spatial competition and so on). And, to tie back to what we spoke of before, it also makes for an ideal case study and representation of the cultural clash between all of these factions.

From a narrative perspective the "race to Ukaizo" I believe already does a fair bit of what you propose. Disregarding the incentives from our personal questline, each faction is already given a pretty clear and singular reason to why they want to make it to Ukaizo themselves: the Vailians are interested in what they can learn of animancy in what was once a major Engwithan landmark, the RDC's interested in learning more about the storms to see what can be done about the same in Rauatai, the Huana need it because the history of their people and culture is there, the pirates see it as a place with lots of potential booty and a good alternative to settle in and operate with relative impunity and so on. How we reach there also differs greatly given the choices we make and the faction and subfaction we ally ourselves with: eventually we are made to take part in some kind of move against one of the others and, again, we can see the eventual race pan out in several different ways depending on who we sided with and who we struck against in the process. To remove our attention from Ukaizo would be something that if anything would muddle up the narrative and reduce the stakes making our way there and to confronting Eothas and so on. If anything an issue the game had in its pre-5.0 iteration is that the faction conflict and the threat of Eothas didn't feel connected enough, and that's precisely something this last patch was attempting to address with its narrative additions and so on; so to create an ending that tends further away from the game's climax and thematic crux which is the whole event at the Wheel, I feel would only widen this divide instead. Here's the other thing too: I don't think it's an option to *not* finish at Ukaizo either; the narrative of the entire franchise so far has been built around the conflict of power between gods and kith, and the cultural shift from theocentric to anthropocentric instead. A Rauataian invasion to Neketaka or a Principi attack to Port Maje or Sayuka as expansions or replacements to the current final race to Ukaizo would be fun to play most likely, but would ultimately be rather meaningless spectacle, all in a saga that stands out for being motivated by themes and ideas first and foremost.

Anyhow, some thoughts on my part.

Edited June 14, 2019 by algroth

[Wormerine]

I must agree here with @algroth.

I found Neketaka to be one of the best cities in an RPG (better then Athkatla.) Grouping all "legit" factions in one cities makes story and gameplay sense, is convienient for quest purposes, and is a good representation of what Deadfire situation is at this moment in history. All factions have additional small settlements. Would it be nice for them to be bigger? Sure, but it is already a sprawling game working with limited budget. 

Granted, if individual faction settlements were seperate, allying with faction might have been a bit more extreme (like in New Vegas, where player will soon find himself welcome with one faction, while attacked on sight by the other). However, it is not the story Obsidian wanted to tell, as faction aren't at war with each other until endgame. They coexist, scheming behind each other backs, and that's where you come in - freelancing and working with each other, as long as you prove useful. Deadfire is not a very developed area of the world, and it makes perfect sense to have one major city, and multiple small outposts.

It seems that really the issues OP has aren't with the city itself but that the game rushes endgame. We interact with the factions a lot, but don't really see the fallout of the conflict - rushed finale and ending slides is all that we have to work with. Seeing the city change is a great idea - and a very expensive one. I think a more realistic proposition would be - longer Ukaizo act, which changes depending what faction you ally with, or post game expansion were we return to Deadfire and see changes to Neketaka and surrounding areas for ourselves. 

I still thing that expanded Ukaizo would improve the game the most, alas the game is concluded. 

For the future: it depends what Obsidian has in mind. I think that sticking to one location served them well, allowing them to focus and fully explore limited culture in the world. WIth the potential introduction of fast traveling (valian experiments with adra) I wouldn't be surprised if we were to hop between major areas around the globe (Rauatai, Yekuza, maybe Aedyr etc.), especially if the game would move over to 3d engine, alla D:OS (practicality of 2d backgrounds might be questionable). That of course, creates a challenge of defining multiple places and cultures at once, which might be great if done well, and it might hurt if done poorly, due to how much needs to be defined/written. 

Coming back the the topic - I do think Neketaka to be a better version of Athkatla, however, sprawling adventures of BG2 were probably more satisfying. Replaying the game recently, it is important to remember how great the opening chapter of BG2 is, and how empty the city feels once the players returns there after Underdark (at least it is, if, like me, you complete all quests there before progressing the story with the factions). 

[xzar_monty]

That's an interesting BG2 choice indeed: to do the quests before Underdark or not. If you do, the whole of Chapter 6 is just that one encounter with Bodhi, there's nothing else, and nothing of significance anywhere else in Athkatla.

[algroth]

On 6/14/2019 at 6:05 PM, Wormerine said:

It seems that really the issues OP has aren't with the city itself but that the game rushes endgame. We interact with the factions a lot, but don't really see the fallout of the conflict - rushed finale and ending slides is all that we have to work with. Seeing the city change is a great idea - and a very expensive one. I think a more realistic proposition would be - longer Ukaizo act, which changes depending what faction you ally with, or post game expansion were we return to Deadfire and see changes to Neketaka and surrounding areas for ourselves. 

I still thing that expanded Ukaizo would improve the game the most, alas the game is concluded.

I would agree here. There's a bit of a conflict of build-up and payoff in the game as it exists now, in that a lot is invested throughout the playthrough to the mystery and wonder of Ukaizo, the notion that all major quests and all paths lead to clues of this mythical city and so on, and that when we get there we hardly get a chance to explore and witness this wonder ourselves. An out-of-focus parallax view of the city is the ultimate example of one of the few shortcomings in the game in neglecting the impact of actually *seeing* these lost wonders and ruins with our own eyes opposite to being told of or suggested as much (see several other dungeons across the game that would immediately teleport you inside, never allowing one to get a good view of what they were actually exploring). On a replay I appreciate the attempt to illustrate the same through a scripted introduction to each area, but I don't think a pen and ink illustration has quite the effect a fully-rendered isometric exterior does at the end of the day.

Oddly enough, the comparison that keeps coming to mind regarding Ukaizo is actually Miyazaki's Castle in the Sky, whereby the film also follows a race to the mythical storm-ridden city of Laputa. The film does a wonderful job building up the expectation for the same, and then delivering it in the last act. The last act isn't a mere confrontation of forces at the footsteps of the city, we are literally taken for a tour from top to bottom of the same, the city and its 'secret' and history gradually revealed in the same. The fact that in it we learn more about the fate of its inhabitants, that in it we come to learn why the city died out and why it was as important and dangerous as it was, and coveted by the film's villain and so on, are all layers that add to its effect and enduring presence in our mind and so on. Ukaizo had components of the same, but felt almost like a sparknotes version, whereby the only elements keeping us from rushing from point A to B to C were a fight or two and not that, for example, we'd have to find our way and in the process learn more about Ukaizo itself. Every small area was a mere platform for a few scenes to occur in whereas the actual exploration of the city seemed to practically happen off-screen. Much more could have been done here, much more could have been learned, all of which would have led to a more satisfying final act.

On the topic of Athkatla and Neketaka, I'll touch on the comparison soon if I can.

[DozingDragon]

I actually think the game would have been better served if the ship travel and ship combat systems had been stripped out of it, and the whole game mostly took place around Neketaka and its surrounding environs.  All the settlements outside of Neketaka could have been turned into city districts or smaller outlying settlements accessible by a small boat or a barge, and nearly all of the mini-dungeons scattered around the map could have been tucked away throughout the city.  Coordinating with a faction would suddenly become very important to actually advance the main quest and reach areas that are outside of the city like Magran's Teeth, as you would need to build quite a bit of credibility with a faction before they agree to help your character with what sounds like a fool's errand at best and a suicide mission at worst.