[MECHANICS] Various Testing

[Elric Galad]

1 hour ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

1) How did I miss this thread. Your explanation/testing of Unbending in particular is masterful @Elric Galad and answers a few questions I still had after so many hours in the game.

Thank you !

1 hour ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

2) So it means that Practiced Healer and Path of Mercy from Footprints of Ahu Taka will NOT increase the potency of Unbending and NOT Might of course. But things like Glazed Chops, Murkbrew etc will help (any other obvious +Healing Received mods I'm missing?). Of course any +INT modifier and +% Beneficial Effect duration (strand of favor, cabalist gambeson, Mari Crudia) will also increase it.

Exactly

1 hour ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

3) I'm curious if you know whether the healing of Unbending is calculated off of the damage received before or after %DMG received modifiers? So to take a concrete example: Assassin takes 15% more DMG as a passive malus. Does Unbending healing take into account this +15% (which would make this malus a total non issue for a properly built Swashbuckler)?

I haven't noticed any discrepancy between damages actually done and damages recovered, so all modifiers are taken into account.

By the way, apparently, Unbending has no effect Vs DoT (I guess Pulsating spells do work).

[Not So Clever Hound]

9 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

By the way, apparently, Unbending has no effect Vs DoT (I guess Pulsating spells do work)

And of course, it doesn't heal self-inflicted damage abilities either (DoT, pulsing, or burst self-damage).

Merci !

Edited May 28, 2021 by Not So Clever Hound

[Raven Darkholme]

30 minutes ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

And of course, it doesn't heal self-inflicted damage abilities either (DoT, pulsing, or burst self-damage).

Merci !

It does work with some self inflicted abilities, concelhauts hammer for example.

[Elric Galad]

1 minute ago, Raven Darkholme said:

It does work with some self inflicted abilities, concelhauts hammer for example.

I guess it depends if there is an actual attack.

[Raven Darkholme]

6 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

I guess it depends if there is an actual attack.

Yes and on the damage type.

A cheesy way to self apply it would be concelhaut's draining missiles, which DO have an attack resolution, but since they deal raw damage they don't trigger it.

[Not So Clever Hound]

2 hours ago, Raven Darkholme said:

It does work with some self inflicted abilities, concelhauts hammer for example.

Indeed, I meant abilities with a self-damage component like Berserker Frenzy, Blood Sacrifice, DAoM etc. Not actually attacking oneself which indeed is different . Thanks for clarifying.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Not So Clever Hound

[Elric Galad]

Oh,

Never realized that :

https://www.reddit.com/r/projecteternity/comments/nmxjtt/how_did_i_not_know_carnage_applies_onhit_effects/

Marauder seems to be a very good candidate for building around it (Strike the Bell line shouldn't work but still)

[Reent]

1 hour ago, Elric Galad said:

Oh,

Never realized that :

https://www.reddit.com/r/projecteternity/comments/nmxjtt/how_did_i_not_know_carnage_applies_onhit_effects/

Marauder seems to be a very good candidate for building around it (Strike the Bell line shouldn't work but still)

As far as i know Carnage doesn't work with on hit - tried Body Blows just now and it doesn't apply on carnage... maybe other things will apply, but at least Body Blows doesn't

[Elric Galad]

7 hours ago, Reent said:

As far as i know Carnage doesn't work with on hit - tried Body Blows just now and it doesn't apply on carnage... maybe other things will apply, but at least Body Blows doesn't

Well that is weird.

Someone on Reddit explicitly mentions it, but I don't remember anyone ever stating it on this forum. I guess I will have to actually check in game. If it is true, how could we miss it ?

[Boeroer]

Unlike PoE1 Carnage in Deadfire did never apply any on-hit effects. If that's different now it must be a recent change or it's just some rare exception with Gouging Strike (or Rogue Strokes in general?).

[Boeroer]

1 minute ago, Elric Galad said:

Well that is weird.

Someone on Reddit explicitly mentions it, but I don't remember anyone ever stating it on this forum. I guess I will have to actually check in game. If it is true, how could we miss it ?

Maybe he used WotEP...?

[Elric Galad]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

Maybe he used WotEP...?

For Body Blows ? 

Well, I haven't time to test but it's weird to read a consensus about something I assumed to be wrong.

[Reent]

1 hour ago, Elric Galad said:

For Body Blows ? 

Well, I haven't time to test but it's weird to read a consensus about something I assumed to be wrong.

I tried a howler a long time ago, the idea of debuffing and getting soft wind to reliably hit (stacking +beneficial duration and int) together with ancient memories and Mercy would have been my kind of build... without debuffing soft wind can be used to fill the gaps, but isn't close to usefull.

After reading the thread i had hope, i really wanted it to work (i really wanted to be wrong  )... no such luck. Howler is still useless for my playstyle compared to every other class combination.

[Boeroer]

Just checked in game to be sure: doesn't work - as expected. Not with Gouging Strike anyway and of course not with Body Blows. I guess he used some weapon with Gouging Strike that could have applied it in an AoE. Maybe Amra's Wanton/Riven Gore does this. Checked: nope.

And Body Blows just seems to have been speculation. 

Or... I didn' check Accurate Carnage... wait a sec... Checked: nope.

Maybe a mod?

Edited May 29, 2021 by Boeroer

[Raven Darkholme]

15 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Oh,

Never realized that :

https://www.reddit.com/r/projecteternity/comments/nmxjtt/how_did_i_not_know_carnage_applies_onhit_effects/

Marauder seems to be a very good candidate for building around it (Strike the Bell line shouldn't work but still)

Apart from the fact that people on reddit are .... special:

How did you read carnage applying body body blows out of that thread?

Ik the title is very misleading but the guy never claimed that anything but gouging strike got applied in an aoe.

Any Aoe weapon applies abilities on Aoe, just not modals.

 

[Elric Galad]

12 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Maybe a mod?

Not me, I swear !

[Raven Darkholme]

Time to get downvoted.

Edited May 29, 2021 by Raven Darkholme

[Not So Clever Hound]

[Boeroer]

6 hours ago, Raven Darkholme said:

Time to get downvoted.

I guess I will create a reddit account and downvote you because it's totally possible to apply Body Blows in an AoE: with Whispers of the Wind, Whirling Strikes, Clear Out, Clean Sweep, Clear the Path and Heart of Fury.    

[Elric Galad]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

I guess I will create a reddit account and downvote you because it's totally possible to apply Body Blows in an AoE: with Whispers of the Wind, Whirling Strikes, Clear Out, Clean Sweep, Clear the Path and Heart of Fury.    

[–]ElricGalad 2 points il y a 7 heures 

Yep, only way to do that is through AoE special attack such as Clear Out, Heart of Fury or Whirling Strikes

As you can see on the reddit thread, you don't have too. Except if you want to upvote the post  

Edited May 29, 2021 by Elric Galad

[Boeroer]

I'm actually too lazy to create an account anyway.

[Raven Darkholme]

3 hours ago, Boeroer said:

I guess I will create a reddit account and downvote you because it's totally possible to apply Body Blows in an AoE: with Whispers of the Wind, Whirling Strikes, Clear Out, Clean Sweep, Clear the Path and Heart of Fury.    

I said Carnage tho!

You will make a fine redditor, reading only half the post and downvoting!

[Elric Galad]

Sacred Sacrifice self damages duration isn't reduced by Resolve, contrary to Divine Immolation and unupgraded Sacred Immolation.

The Gamedata file parameters seem correct so it is probably a hard coded bug  when an ability mix beneficial and hostile effect to self in addition to its main attack.

For example, I do not record Berserker self damages to be reduced by Resolve either. But in this case, it is applied to the whole line of ability rather than to a poor innocent upgrade...

[Boeroer]

Yes, the self damage of Berserker Frenzy and Deleterius Alacrity cannot be shortened by RES since hostile and benefical effect are not separated it seems. Looks like one effect that has pros and cons. Iirc you also don't get a dedicated "hostile effect" entry in your list of active effects. With Sacred Immolation you do - and you can shorten it with RES without shortening your "benefical" burn dmg output. I never noticed though that Sacred Sacrifice is different (I honestly never took it). Good to know.

Edited May 30, 2021 by Boeroer

[Elric Galad]

6 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Yes, the self damage of Berserker Frenzy and Deleterius Alacrity cannot be shortened by RES since hostile and benefical effect are not separated it seems. Looks like one effect that has pros and cons. Iirc you also don't get a dedicated "hostile effect" entry in your list of active effects. With Sacred Immolation you do - and you can shorten it with RES without shortening your "benefical" burn dmg output. I never noticed though that Sacred Sacrifice is different (I honestly never took it). Good to know.

It is quite easy to fix anyway. Just did it for Sacred Sacrifice (this one is mandatory for consistency with unupgraded version). I don't think I'm going to change for Frenzy or DoAM, but it's technically feasible.