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Best use of the Chanter Bellower subclass?


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16 replies to this topic

#1
astrolulz

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Anyone have experience with the Bellower sublass? With the -50% chant AoE, its a pretty different spin on Chanters. Is it even worth having maxed out intel like most Chanters would have? I imagine Eld Nary would be unreal with enhanced PL. 

 

As a side question; how are single class Chanters vs multiclass Chanters? Their PL8/9 look really strong. In regards to dps, would it be better to mix with either Barb/Fighter/Pally and go Skald? Is it ever worth it to be a ranged physical Chanter?



#2
thelee

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Anyone have experience with the Bellower sublass? With the -50% chant AoE, its a pretty different spin on Chanters. Is it even worth having maxed out intel like most Chanters would have? I imagine Eld Nary would be unreal with enhanced PL. 

 

As a side question; how are single class Chanters vs multiclass Chanters? Their PL8/9 look really strong. In regards to dps, would it be better to mix with either Barb/Fighter/Pally and go Skald? Is it ever worth it to be a ranged physical Chanter?

 

i played around with bellower a bit, planning on rolling one fully for my next run. Eld Nary is pretty unreal with bellower, with +6 PL and the upgrade you get like 15 bounces and loads of damage (not to mention lots of extra PEN and acc). the -50% chant aoe penalty is pretty nasty, but i figure a good way to metagame that is pu the bellower closer to the front lines and focus more on offensive chants so it matters less that party members might be out of position. intellect is still vital because their invocations have durational effects, though you need 20 intellect just to cancel out the chant aoe debuff.

 

i don't think eld nary is even the end-all be-all for bellower; while it certainly benefits the most from the +PL, I suspect bellowers can still be decent high-level summoners, too. +6 or +7 PL on animated weapon or dragon summon is enough (in combination with modestly good intellect) to get 100% uptime on them, whereas a troubadour has to have brisk recitation and a beckoner just has to live with bursting the summons every once and a while. similar thing with far from defeated (huge PL bonus means the energized bonus lasts a super long time).

 

i know that myself and a few other regulars are pretty big fans of single-class chanters. i'll let the chanter experts chime in on specific multiclasses though (herald aka pal+chanter is a perennial favorite).


Edited by thelee, 04 February 2019 - 02:48 PM.

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#3
astrolulz

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With the chant -50% aoe, is it plausible just to ignore buffing your allies and use targetable abilities so intel wouldn't be as required? I guess that would be negating a lot of what chanter is all about, but I feel that's what they were aiming for with the bellower. The summons would still last a reasonable amount with the +PL. For that reason, I was thinking that multi with a ranger or something, not much would be missed? This is all just theorycraft of course since I don't have much experience with chanters.

Yeah I've definitely heard a lot about herald, but it doesn't look like what I would want.

#4
Starcaller

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https://steamcommuni...531784&result=1

 

Helwalker-Bellower, Pale Elf (or whatever)

 

10 MIG

14 CON

16 DEX,

12 PER

08 INT

18 RES

 

Thrice Was She Wronged

Tenacious

Turning Wheel

Sasha's Singing Scimitar (with Refreshing Finale) https://pillarsofete...inging_Scimitar

 

You'll need to pick up a 4-, 5-, and 6- phrase invocation beyond Thrice... to build up the power level.  But Thrice... will be your primary spell. This character has done the most damage in my 15-level custom party.


Edited by Starcaller, 05 February 2019 - 11:26 PM.

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#5
mzum

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@astrolulz: Chanter will go with just about anything. They benefit from multiclassing into active abilities. The Bellower in particular wants Sasha's Singing Scimitar to chain cast Invocations during combat- other than that, they're very flexible. Your invocations are very accurate and have a ton of penetration. And  Thelee's comments about Summons is right on the money. If you wanted to pair a Bellower/Ranger, they'd go fine together. Marked for the Hunt is going to give really accurate invocations.

 

I did some testing this evening to look at durations, using a fighter for ease of use.

 

15 Intelligence w/ +1 PL:

Level 7 Fighter/Bellower invoking Wurm Summon: ~40 second duration 

Level 7 Fighter/No-Sub invoking wurm Summon: ~30 second duration.

 

Bellower's can call in Reinforcements for a REALLY long time.

 

In TBM the breakpoints are going to be really noticeable. At 42 second duration, you should have 7 rounds with your summons.

 

On Bellower Builds (without testing/playthrough):

  • Fighter/Monk/Wizard seem  like excellent pairs with the bellower, providing something for you to do while you wait for your second volley, and easy access to an Intelligence Inspiration. 10 int is all you'll ever need!
  • Druid might be fun. Lots of spell options. There's potential for some elemental themed builds.
  • Tactician/Bellower-  PBJ. Summons contribute to flanked, which leads to spamming of inspirations.

Edited by mzum, 04 February 2019 - 11:09 PM.

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#6
Frak

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Thelee already gave you the main lowdown. I did some low-level testing and my take is thus:

 

Bellower is about powerful invocations and good positioning. This is due to the increased powerlevels when invoking.

Those powerlevels give you

- longer duration on summons

- longer duration on beneficial effecs from invocations

- more damage/healing on invocations

- more accuracy on offensive invocation

- more penetration

 

So bellower is about throwing really powerful invocations out, but rarely,

A good offensive invocation with proper positioning can really alter a fight. It will with greater accuracy, it will penetrate more and it will do more damage.

 

The smaller chant radius is the mumbling cost you pay to be able to roar with oomph.


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#7
Gniel

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FYI, you left the ] in the link. Removing this trailing character gives the intended URL.

Sasha's Singing Scimitar (with Refreshing Finale) [https://pillarsofete...nging_Scimitar]

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#8
hansvedic

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Don't forget about Blightheart's ability to add phrases if rolling a Bellower; it may not be the best damage option at times, but it could be a good way to finish enemies.

 

EDIT: Might even make a Wildrhymer worthwhile, I suppose.

 

EDIT2: Bellower w/ Blightheart + Beckoner = lots of phrases? Or just add "The Siren" (beckoner/beguiler) for summons & Brilliant inspiration to make the Bellower get crazy amounts of phrases?

 

EDIT3: Can someone remind me whether Blightheart's Hymn of Decay (+1 Chanter phrase on kill) works with non-weapon kills?

 

EDIT4: One could also take the skeleton chant and kill their own skellies when they are at low health, I suppose... add in the items that increase MIG when an "ally" falls, and you could have a powerful character...


Edited by hansvedic, 05 February 2019 - 05:16 PM.

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#9
hansvedic

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Don't forget about Blightheart's ability to add phrases if rolling a Bellower; it may not be the best damage option at times, but it could be a good way to finish enemies.

 

EDIT: Might even make a Wildrhymer worthwhile, I suppose.

 

EDIT2: Bellower w/ Blightheart + Beckoner = lots of phrases? Or just add "The Siren" (beckoner/beguiler) for summons & Brilliant inspiration to make the Bellower get crazy amounts of phrases?

 

EDIT3: Can someone remind me whether Blightheart's Hymn of Decay (+1 Chanter phrase on kill) works with non-weapon kills?

 

EDIT4: One could also take the skeleton chant and kill their own skellies when they are at low health, I suppose... add in the items that increase MIG when an "ally" falls, and you could have a powerful character...

 

Sorry for the double-post, but I just realized a really cool idea for a Bellower: Sasha's Singing Scimitar w/ Encore (get MAX phrases after empowering an invocation) + The Weyc's Wand...

With that combo, you can use 2 powerful invocations, one right after another! The Weyc's Wand will not only boost the 2nd invocation's power level; it will also refresh recovery immediately! 2 Eld Nary's Curse, anyone?

EDIT: In addition, I wonder if the first invocation's +Power level will be added to the +Power Level from the second invocation? If so, that would be really overpowered...


Edited by hansvedic, 11 February 2019 - 05:36 AM.


#10
Boeroer

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Afaik a new Bellower phrase bonus overrides an older one if still active. But for the second invocation the Weyc's bonus + Bellower PL phrase bonus should stack I guess.

 

I would still go with Refreshing Finale. You'll get back the Empower point back and also +3 phrases. Since the Weyc's bonus lasts for 20 secs base it should be possible to use the next Invocation with maxed phrases and the Weyc's bonus. Takes all a bit longer but you won't have to rest for Empower points.

 

If you rest frequently anyways then of course your suggestion is way better. 


Edited by Boeroer, 11 February 2019 - 07:00 AM.


#11
Jayd

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I love the idea of a SC Bellower throwing out nasty invocations. The only thing that gives me pause is wondering whether they would be too weak in-between invocations. I guess there are invocation buffs that can make you stronger in auto-attacking which would last a long time with Bellower power level.

 

Also, are all Chanter summons affected by the current summon scaling bug? I haven't been able to confirm whether all summons are affected or only a few.


Edited by Jayd, 11 February 2019 - 07:26 AM.


#12
thelee

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I love the idea of a SC Bellower throwing out nasty invocations. The only thing that gives me pause is wondering whether they would be too weak in-between invocations. I guess there are invocation buffs that can make you stronger in auto-attacking which would last a long time with Bellower power level.

 

Also, are all Chanter summons affected by the current summon scaling bug? I haven't been able to confirm whether all summons are affected or only a few.

 

I've only sanity-checked the animated weapons, and I believe they are fine. Unfortunately the summon scaling bug is why I'm holding off on a run with a chanter, since my Xoti and Fassina got hit a bit in my last run by this bug.

 

edit: to your first paragraph, it's worth remembering that the bellower's chants themselves are as good as any other chanters. they only have a smaller radius.


Edited by thelee, 11 February 2019 - 08:22 AM.


#13
Frak

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I love the idea of a SC Bellower throwing out nasty invocations. 

 

"Now you too can roleplay Durance!"

 

*mumblegrumblemagraneothasPURIFIERYWHOREwatchertestingorlansshouldebestrangledgrumble*


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#14
Jayd

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edit: to your first paragraph, it's worth remembering that the bellower's chants themselves are as good as any other chanters. they only have a smaller radius.

 

Yeah, but I more meant it as a concern for SC Chanters in general. MC chanters get to use their other class's abilities and strengths while not casting invocations, *and* they are constantly chanting. SC Chanters just have invocations, chanting, and auto-attacks without any strong martial abilities. I guess they should still be able to hold their own with good gear (medium armor, I guess?) but it seems potentially...unexciting?



#15
thelee

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edit: to your first paragraph, it's worth remembering that the bellower's chants themselves are as good as any other chanters. they only have a smaller radius.

 

Yeah, but I more meant it as a concern for SC Chanters in general. MC chanters get to use their other class's abilities and strengths while not casting invocations, *and* they are constantly chanting. SC Chanters just have invocations, chanting, and auto-attacks without any strong martial abilities. I guess they should still be able to hold their own with good gear (medium armor, I guess?) but it seems potentially...unexciting?

 

 

oh yeah, add to that chants scale with character level not power level, so MC chanters don't take any hit to their chant quality themselves.

 

not sure I would call it unexciting (they still get better invocations and chants faster), maybe at least uninteractive; i remember in PoE1 I would have chanters where (because chants are unaffected by recovery) I would just load them up with heavy armor and a shield to basically be like tanks with no other abilities.



#16
Frak

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Remember chanters per default comes with points in arcana. I assume that the devs want us to use scrolls on downtime.

 

I still don't get why they have points in sleight of hand, though.



#17
Jayd

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Remember chanters per default comes with points in arcana. I assume that the devs want us to use scrolls on downtime.

 

I still don't get why they have points in sleight of hand, though.

Yeah I thought of that, though I typically don't think to use items. I've never used drugs and maybe taken about 5 potions throughout my POTD run (level 19 now). Scrolls seem like a good way to go, though.

 

As for sleight of hand, bards are typically semi-roguish in DnD right? So it's probably a hold-over from that.






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