Dynamic Priests - Making Priests Great Again

[bell88]

 

Thanks a lot for looking into my suggestions. I noticed you recently hid the mod on Nexus. Having played with your mod for a while its now actually pretty damn hard to go back to vanilla priests  - hence me posting here hoping that the mod files go live again at some point soon

I can make it available again but it is very much Beta and I am currently working on a major overhaul in addition to an Underepresented Mods mod. There is a lot to do. If you really want the relatively buggy mod available I can make it visible again.

 

Thanks for the response. I'm completely happy waiting till your next release version. This was more for me to say that you have an audience who are very excited for what you're working on  It'd be great if you keep us updated on here when you release it.

Edited February 5, 2019 by bell88

[Stardusk78]

 

 

Thanks a lot for looking into my suggestions. I noticed you recently hid the mod on Nexus. Having played with your mod for a while its now actually pretty damn hard to go back to vanilla priests  - hence me posting here hoping that the mod files go live again at some point soon

I can make it available again but it is very much Beta and I am currently working on a major overhaul in addition to an Underepresented Mods mod. There is a lot to do. If you really want the relatively buggy mod available I can make it visible again.

 

Thanks for the response. I'm completely happy waiting till your next release version. This was more for me to say that you have an audience who are very excited for what you're working on  It'd be great if you keep us updated on here when you release it.

 

Will do. On another note you mind enjoy these smaller class overhauls...

 

True Skald

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/293/

 

and

 

True Devoted

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/290

[Ophiuchus]

I played around with your Skald mod, and had a blast with a Harbinger Trickster. Good work, Stardusk.

[Exomis]

Stardusk any update on the availability of a more stable Dynamic Priests.  Not to be a pest but looking to start another playthrough with a Priest MC using your mod.

[Stardusk78]

Stardusk any update on the availability of a more stable Dynamic Priests.  Not to be a pest but looking to start another playthrough with a Priest MC using your mod.

Because I am overhauling a large number of things I think patience is the best option. It will be out eventually but I am also working on another item mod and IRL stuff that comes before the mod. I will let you know when it is done.

[Kristensen]

Stardusk any chance you could share what you have as a beta-version? Going to start a playthrough, and would be happy to play your mod and give feedback on it

[Stardusk78]

Stardusk any chance you could share what you have as a beta-version? Going to start a playthrough, and would be happy to play your mod and give feedback on it

Unfortunately the best Beta available is the stuff already uploaded. The proper version is meant to be very ambitious, as such I am currently investigating techniques to modify asset bundles which could change a great deal in the mod. I sadly do not have an ETA for any of this BUT one day it will be done and the game is not running away. An Underepresented Items mod will likely be out prior to that so again all I can ask for is patience as I am assailed by a multitude of things both virtually and in reality.

[Exomis]

Understood on the current state of the beta and excited to see what you are doing with an underrepresented item mod (always felt like game needed more variety).

 

With that in mind, can you unhide the mod on Nexus like you mentioned in a previous post even if it is noted as being in a true beta stage? Checked this morning based on your last post and still hidden.

[Kristensen]

Understood on the current state of the beta and excited to see what you are doing with an underrepresented item mod (always felt like game needed more variety).

 

With that in mind, can you unhide the mod on Nexus like you mentioned in a previous post even if it is noted as being in a true beta stage? Checked this morning based on your last post and still hidden.

 

Would also really love to use the things you have hidden on nexus, was really looking forward to your unique priest-designs after graduating at my university and taking some days off at the PC :D

[Stardusk78]

 

Understood on the current state of the beta and excited to see what you are doing with an underrepresented item mod (always felt like game needed more variety).

 

With that in mind, can you unhide the mod on Nexus like you mentioned in a previous post even if it is noted as being in a true beta stage? Checked this morning based on your last post and still hidden.

 

Would also really love to use the things you have hidden on nexus, was really looking forward to your unique priest-designs after graduating at my university and taking some days off at the PC :D

 

I have made the mod visible again but again, there are bugs and it is Beta. Changes will be coming in time but it will take a while.

[Stardusk78]

Here is a question for those who have interest in this mod. The new priest of Wael is done and I wondering if you would prefer for everything to be uploaded all at once or that I upload each subclass once each is done. I am applying a different work methodology where each priest is being worked on one at a time because it allows me to be more careful, so if you have interest, do let me know, one by one or lump sum. Thanks in advance.

[Stardusk78]

So I have decided to upload the revised priests one at a time. Wael is currently available and should be powerful, fun and interesting to play.

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/287?tab=files

[bell88]

I reckon releasing one at a time is a great way to catch bugs and keep getting feedback Thanks for the hard work

 

Some thoughts on the new Priest of Wael. (Some of my comments apply to the original mod version of this priest). I know you mention in the mod description that you're leaning slightly in favour of interesting design/concepts over game balance - but I do think this character is far too strong now. In particular, it treads too much into Wizard territory. (It certainly makes being an illusionist redundant - although you could argue that is because wizard subclasses are too weak outside of blood mage).

 

My suggestions would be

 

1) +2 Illusion power level would need to come with a *much* stronger malus than -15 Will. I would remove the power level bonus entirely. Wizards need to ban two whole schools of magic for a similar bonus!

 

2) I think Frightened + Confused is too much for Holy Radiance (given this is available right from the get-go in a huge AOE). Replace with just confused. (In general for the other priests - I would suggest holy radiance only apply one affliction rather than two).

 

3) The spell stealing is great thematically - keep it.

 

4) The treading on a Wizard's toes is the largest issue. I think to resolve this I would observe that the vanilla Waelites focus exclusively on defensive illusion magic with some confusion mixed in (representing the obfuscation aspect of Wael) together with gaze attacks (eyes). I would remove anything to do with fear (so enervating terror is out). As an aside, the screams and echoes in Forgotten Sanctum have nothing to do with Wael - that's entirely the Hand Occult's doing and they don't truly represent Wael of course.

 

Probably most importantly, I think Wall of Many Colours is one of the strongest AL8 abilities in the game - it needs to be exclusive to single class. Allowing Waelites to access it at AL7 (and therefore various multiclasses to access it as well I think is too strong and takes away from wizards too much).

 

5) The new AL9 abilities are all great.

 

I would consider revising to something like

 

1. Miasma

2. Blackened Sight

3. Displaced Image

4. Confusion

5. Gaze of the Adragon

6. Brilliant Departure (very thematic)

7. Llengrath's Safeguard (we could call it Wael's safeguard and regard it as an illusion)

8. Your new Symbol of Wael

9. Your new Blessing of Wael, Chosen of Wael

 

This way - you keep the focus on *defensive* illusions + obfuscations that fit with Wael's aspects rather than totally supplanting the entire Wizard illusion school.

Edited February 20, 2019 by bell88

[Stardusk78]

I reckon releasing one at a time is a great way to catch bugs and keep getting feedback Thanks for the hard work

 

Some thoughts on the new Priest of Wael. (Some of my comments apply to the original mod version of this priest). I know you mention in the mod description that you're leaning slightly in favour of interesting design/concepts over game balance - but I do think this character is far too strong now. In particular, it treads too much into Wizard territory. (It certainly makes being an illusionist redundant - although you could argue that is because wizard subclasses are too weak outside of blood mage).

 

My suggestions would be

 

1) +2 Illusion power level would need to come with a *much* stronger malus than -15 Will. I would remove the power level bonus entirely. Wizards need to ban two whole schools of magic for a similar bonus!

 

2) I think Frightened + Confused is too much for Holy Radiance (given this is available right from the get-go in a huge AOE). Replace with just confused. (In general for the other priests - I would suggest holy radiance only apply one affliction rather than two).

 

3) The spell stealing is great thematically - keep it.

 

4) The treading on a Wizard's toes is the largest issue. I think to resolve this I would observe that the vanilla Waelites focus exclusively on defensive illusion magic with some confusion mixed in (representing the obfuscation aspect of Wael) together with gaze attacks (eyes). I would remove anything to do with fear (so enervating terror is out). As an aside, the screams and echoes in Forgotten Sanctum have nothing to do with Wael - that's entirely the Hand Occult's doing and they don't truly represent Wael of course.

 

Probably most importantly, I think Wall of Many Colours is one of the strongest AL8 abilities in the game - it needs to be exclusive to single class. Allowing Waelites to access it at AL7 (and therefore various multiclasses to access it as well I think is too strong and takes away from wizards too much).

 

5) The new AL9 abilities are all great.

 

I would consider revising to something like

 

1. Miasma

2. Blackened Sight

3. Displaced Image

4. Confusion

5. Gaze of the Adragon

6. Brilliant Departure (very thematic)

7. Llengrath's Safeguard (we could call it Wael's safeguard and regard it as an illusion)

8. Your new Symbol of Wael

9. Your new Blessing of Wael, Chosen of Wael

 

This way - you keep the focus on *defensive* illusions + obfuscations that fit with Wael's aspects rather than totally supplanting the entire Wizard illusion school.

I will consider this but will wait for feedback from other people. Bear in mind, in a sense I want the individual priest subclasses to tread on Wizard's toes to a degree if only because without the unique access to certain spells, why bother playing priests at all except as buffers and fire spell nukers? Just play a wizard in that case. However, I do get your point about the offensive nature of some of the spells. I have some ideas for how to improve this in addition to your suggestions but will wait for more feedback if anyone has any. If you remain the only one then I will probably juggle your ideas with mine to reach a compromise.

Edited February 21, 2019 by Stardusk78

[Stardusk78]

I reckon releasing one at a time is a great way to catch bugs and keep getting feedback Thanks for the hard work

 

Some thoughts on the new Priest of Wael. (Some of my comments apply to the original mod version of this priest). I know you mention in the mod description that you're leaning slightly in favour of interesting design/concepts over game balance - but I do think this character is far too strong now. In particular, it treads too much into Wizard territory. (It certainly makes being an illusionist redundant - although you could argue that is because wizard subclasses are too weak outside of blood mage).

 

My suggestions would be

 

1) +2 Illusion power level would need to come with a *much* stronger malus than -15 Will. I would remove the power level bonus entirely. Wizards need to ban two whole schools of magic for a similar bonus!

 

2) I think Frightened + Confused is too much for Holy Radiance (given this is available right from the get-go in a huge AOE). Replace with just confused. (In general for the other priests - I would suggest holy radiance only apply one affliction rather than two).

 

3) The spell stealing is great thematically - keep it.

 

4) The treading on a Wizard's toes is the largest issue. I think to resolve this I would observe that the vanilla Waelites focus exclusively on defensive illusion magic with some confusion mixed in (representing the obfuscation aspect of Wael) together with gaze attacks (eyes). I would remove anything to do with fear (so enervating terror is out). As an aside, the screams and echoes in Forgotten Sanctum have nothing to do with Wael - that's entirely the Hand Occult's doing and they don't truly represent Wael of course.

 

Probably most importantly, I think Wall of Many Colours is one of the strongest AL8 abilities in the game - it needs to be exclusive to single class. Allowing Waelites to access it at AL7 (and therefore various multiclasses to access it as well I think is too strong and takes away from wizards too much).

 

5) The new AL9 abilities are all great.

 

I would consider revising to something like

 

1. Miasma

2. Blackened Sight

3. Displaced Image

4. Confusion

5. Gaze of the Adragon

6. Brilliant Departure (very thematic)

7. Llengrath's Safeguard (we could call it Wael's safeguard and regard it as an illusion)

8. Your new Symbol of Wael

9. Your new Blessing of Wael, Chosen of Wael

 

This way - you keep the focus on *defensive* illusions + obfuscations that fit with Wael's aspects rather than totally supplanting the entire Wizard illusion school.

I would like to keep the Illusion PL bonus and we can play around with the penalties. I might consider changing the holy power. In keeping with defensive illusions I am planning on implementing a buffed Mirrored Image and Wondrous Torment. Here is a potential compromise:

 

1. Miasma

 

2. Displaced Image

 

3. Confusion

 

4. Buffed Mirror Image

 

5. Gaze of the Adragon

 

6. Brilliant Departure

 

7. Buffed Arkemyr's Wondrous Torment

 

8. Your new Symbol of Wael

 

9. Your new Blessing of Wael, Chosen of Wael

 

+2 PL Illusion, -20 Will Penalty, -2 Strength

 

I might swap out a spell or two on the Incarnate as well.

[bell88]

 

I reckon releasing one at a time is a great way to catch bugs and keep getting feedback Thanks for the hard work

 

Some thoughts on the new Priest of Wael. (Some of my comments apply to the original mod version of this priest). I know you mention in the mod description that you're leaning slightly in favour of interesting design/concepts over game balance - but I do think this character is far too strong now. In particular, it treads too much into Wizard territory. (It certainly makes being an illusionist redundant - although you could argue that is because wizard subclasses are too weak outside of blood mage).

 

My suggestions would be

 

1) +2 Illusion power level would need to come with a *much* stronger malus than -15 Will. I would remove the power level bonus entirely. Wizards need to ban two whole schools of magic for a similar bonus!

 

2) I think Frightened + Confused is too much for Holy Radiance (given this is available right from the get-go in a huge AOE). Replace with just confused. (In general for the other priests - I would suggest holy radiance only apply one affliction rather than two).

 

3) The spell stealing is great thematically - keep it.

 

4) The treading on a Wizard's toes is the largest issue. I think to resolve this I would observe that the vanilla Waelites focus exclusively on defensive illusion magic with some confusion mixed in (representing the obfuscation aspect of Wael) together with gaze attacks (eyes). I would remove anything to do with fear (so enervating terror is out). As an aside, the screams and echoes in Forgotten Sanctum have nothing to do with Wael - that's entirely the Hand Occult's doing and they don't truly represent Wael of course.

 

Probably most importantly, I think Wall of Many Colours is one of the strongest AL8 abilities in the game - it needs to be exclusive to single class. Allowing Waelites to access it at AL7 (and therefore various multiclasses to access it as well I think is too strong and takes away from wizards too much).

 

5) The new AL9 abilities are all great.

 

I would consider revising to something like

 

1. Miasma

2. Blackened Sight

3. Displaced Image

4. Confusion

5. Gaze of the Adragon

6. Brilliant Departure (very thematic)

7. Llengrath's Safeguard (we could call it Wael's safeguard and regard it as an illusion)

8. Your new Symbol of Wael

9. Your new Blessing of Wael, Chosen of Wael

 

This way - you keep the focus on *defensive* illusions + obfuscations that fit with Wael's aspects rather than totally supplanting the entire Wizard illusion school.

I would like to keep the Illusion PL bonus and we can play around with the penalties. I might consider changing the holy power. In keeping with defensive illusions I am planning on implementing a buffed Mirrored Image and Wondrous Torment. Here is a potential compromise:

 

1. Miasma

 

2. Displaced Image

 

3. Confusion

 

4. Buffed Mirror Image

 

5. Gaze of the Adragon

 

6. Brilliant Departure

 

7. Buffed Arkemyr's Wondrous Torment

 

8. Your new Symbol of Wael

 

9. Your new Blessing of Wael, Chosen of Wael

 

+2 PL Illusion, -20 Will Penalty, -2 Strength

 

I might swap out a spell or two on the Incarnate as well.

 

This is a great compromise! I like the buffed displaced image and wondrous torment. Glad you agree RE defensive illusions. I think this keeps everything sufficiently distinct from Wizard whilst remaining powerful.

[Nssheepster]

I don't think stepping on Wizard's SUBCLASSES is bad, in regards to the PL.... Mostly because Wizard's subclasses are really pretty bad, and you don't really want to use them in most cases. Blood Mage is a bit unique, but the school subclasses aren't really great.

[Verde]

So I have decided to upload the revised priests one at a time. Wael is currently available and should be powerful, fun and...

So not too different from vanilla ? Wael ftw

[Crucis]

I don't think stepping on Wizard's SUBCLASSES is bad, in regards to the PL.... Mostly because Wizard's subclasses are really pretty bad, and you don't really want to use them in most cases. Blood Mage is a bit unique, but the school subclasses aren't really great.

 

Nss, this is why I've personally suggested that a better way to do Wizard subclasses would have been more along the lines of something like this:

 

Elementalist: specializes in elemental spells (i.e. fire, cold, wind, shock, acid, etc.).  

 

Spellsword: specializes in spells that support the wizard acting like "physical" combatant with spells that conjure weapons and various types of defenses (mirror image, stone skin, etc.) and general self-buffing spells.

 

Mage:  The Mage would be the "no subclass" generalist.  I'd suggest that the mage should get a base subclass bonus to Arcana to reflect their greater knowledge and experience with general arcana.  I'm also thinking that perhaps Mages should get +1 casting per spell level.

 

I was also thinking of a Necromancer subclass that would specialize in death spells, though I'm not sure that that'd work.

 

I'm also thinking that Mages should get +1 casting per spell level, while specialists should get +2 power levels in their area of specialization and -2 PL outside of their specialization. Thus, mages would be able to cast more spells, but specialists would be able to cast more powerful spells (in their area of specialization).

 

And personally, I'd do away with grimoires, and just have wizards only now those spells that they selected during level ups.

 

Anyways, just some random thoughts...

[Nssheepster]

Mage getting an extra CAST would probably be too good. Mages getting one extra power level, just across the board, would be fine... That's basically the Prestige talent anyways. I like the +2 PL on the Spellsword.... I think because of items with elemental PLs, it'd be too good for elementalist overall. Elementalist, though, COULD actually work with the current subclass idea of 'You can do X but not Y', because elemental spells are so diverse. Or, you could make it a foe only AOE increase.... Oo, no, better, make it so that Elementalists cannot damage/affect allies with elemental spells. 'Their mastery of the elements allows for fine control, even of the most uncontrollable explusions of power'... Or something like that. Being able to use Delayed Fireball freely? Nice stuff.

[Crucis]

Mage getting an extra CAST would probably be too good. Mages getting one extra power level, just across the board, would be fine... That's basically the Prestige talent anyways. I like the +2 PL on the Spellsword.... I think because of items with elemental PLs, it'd be too good for elementalist overall. Elementalist, though, COULD actually work with the current subclass idea of 'You can do X but not Y', because elemental spells are so diverse. Or, you could make it a foe only AOE increase.... Oo, no, better, make it so that Elementalists cannot damage/affect allies with elemental spells. 'Their mastery of the elements allows for fine control, even of the most uncontrollable explusions of power'... Or something like that. Being able to use Delayed Fireball freely? Nice stuff.

 

One of the first things that I'd suggest if they went in the direction I suggest would be to create new (for lack of a better word) "schools".  But they wouldn't be the old schools.  They'd just be spell groups.    Elemental spells, Spellsword spells, and Necromancy spells.

 

For elementalists, now that I think of it, I'd limit it to fire, wind, water, cold, shock spells.  I don't really see acid/corrode, poison, or decay damage as elemental, but they could definitely fall under Necromancy.  I'd probably also suggest removing anything that is too similar to cipher spells, like confusion, or frightening spells.  There are other spells that I just don't know how to classify them, like magic missiles (regardless of spell level, as they all seem to be variations on a flavor).

 

I agree that items that provide elemental (or otherwise) power levels can be iffy. My first instinct would be to remove PL bonuses as an item benefit, if they were felt to be to unbalancing.

 

Anyways, that's enough for tonight. 

[Nssheepster]

Now I'm dreaming of a 'Minoletta's Apprentice' subclass, where you get all the Minoletta spells on level up, you get extra casts of them, but can't use any other spells. It'd be far too good with multiclassing, but.... I do love Magic Missiles.

[Stardusk78]

Wael 2.1 is done. Sorry it took so long. I doubt I will change Wael now so I consider Wael finished.

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/287

[nouser]

Can this mod be installed in the mid-game for an existing character ? also, i did not undestand if it is compatible with checoden mod , as dusk78 mentioned that there would be a conflict  (perhaps part of checodens mod is included in the dynamic priest mods?) . which is the other (of the two mods)  that is recommended for this mod beside checoden mod? 

Edited February 28, 2019 by nouser

[brasilgringo]

Now I'm dreaming of a 'Minoletta's Apprentice' subclass, where you get all the Minoletta spells on level up, you get extra casts of them, but can't use any other spells. It'd be far too good with multiclassing, but.... I do love Magic Missiles.

That's a Mino-lotta!