Some unconventional dual wield set-up questions

[Lampros]

I had questions about the workings and efficiency of certain unconventional dual wield set-ups, and how/whether they work:

 

1) Pistol/scepter: I thought of doing this because I want a dual wield mid-range support, but dual pistols run into too many resists/immunes to do satisfactory sustained damage. However, I do not want to dual wield scepters either, because they look stupid from my own peculiar RP perspective.

 

So will I get any mileage out of this DPS-wise? And will it hurt - relative to dual wield pistol set-up - relative to casting speed?

 

2) Pistol/melee weapon: I've seen a lot of this set-ups posted - for instance, the pistol/Singing Scimitar set-up on a Chanter or a Chanter multi-class. But I don't understand how this even works? Won't one weapon always be un- or under-utilized? Besides, if you just point and click auto-attack, then what weapon does this set-up use? Will the character rush to melee - or will he stand back and shoot?

 

Once again, I don't even understand how this works conceptually - much less whether this is efficient.

 

Thanks in advance; and again, mostly I am wondering what is optimal on a mid-range support character who will try to stand exact in the middle of a the 2 front-liners and the 2 back-liners.

[Haplok]

1) It works I suppose. But if you run into pierce resistant/immune enemies, then half of your attacks will underpenetrate anyway... Scepters have Recovery, so after firing one you can't react to the situation quite as fast as with firearms. But dual wielding is pretty fast, so that should still be  okay.

 

2) It's okay for characters who don't have Full attack abilities (meaning no special attacks or mainly only use Primary attacks). It's a flexible setup with the dual-wielding speed advantage. Close up, you use your melee weapon (and can use Primary Attacks), while at range you fire the pistol/bb. Also pretty good if you want to have fast autoattack speed, but always use the same weapon (for example build speed stacks with Scordeo's Trophy).

I use it with my Transcendant: Grave Calling and Kitchen Stove combo. I open combat with Thunderous Report and later smack things with the scimitar with dual-wielding speed (often my own summoned skellies), occasionally fire Kitchen Stove at range (but rarely, would rather Ascend and use cipher powers or switch to dual mortars with Stunning Blow).

 

Characters with good Full attack abilities (such as Rogues, Paladins) are generally better of using two weapons of similar type, as they double-attack with those abilities.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Haplok

[Prince of Lies]

PIstol/Scepter is fine- expecially if you plan on using predominately full-attack weapon abilities. If you do, then it will only use the attack speed, recovery/reload of your main hand, but still additionally use the offhand for damage/effects. 

 

It would look like:

[Full Attack Ability (Pistol + Scepter Damage/Effects) w/ Pistol Attack Speed] -> Pistol Reload  -> REPEAT

Otherwise auto-attacking it would be:

[Pistol Attack (Pistol Damage/Effects) w/ Pistol Attack Speed] -> [Scepter Attack (Scepter Damage/Effects) w/ Scepter Attack Speed] -> Scepter Recovery -> Pistol Reload -> REPEAT

I'll have to test for Ranged Mainhand/Melee Offhand just to confirm. But I think it's the same as the first sequence above when the ability is a full attack ability with no weapon prerequisites.

 

If it's a Melee only full attack ability, I think only the melee weapon is taken into consideration. 

 

Otherwise the auto-attack sequence would look like the second sequence above- so long as you are in melee range to the target you are attacking. 

[Lampros]

PIstol/Scepter is fine- expecially if you plan on using predominately full-attack weapon abilities. If you do, then it will only use the attack speed, recovery/reload of your main hand, but still additionally use the offhand for damage/effects. 

 

It would look like:

[Full Attack Ability (Pistol + Scepter Damage/Effects) w/ Pistol Attack Speed] -> Pistol Reload  -> REPEAT

Otherwise auto-attacking it would be:

[Pistol Attack (Pistol Damage/Effects) w/ Pistol Attack Speed] -> [Scepter Attack (Scepter Damage/Effects) w/ Scepter Attack Speed] -> Scepter Recovery -> Pistol Reload -> REPEAT

I'll have to test for Ranged Mainhand/Melee Offhand just to confirm. But I think it's the same as the first sequence above when the ability is a full attack ability with no weapon prerequisites.

 

If it's a Melee only full attack ability, I think only the melee weapon is taken into consideration. 

 

Otherwise the auto-attack sequence would look like the second sequence above- so long as you are in melee range to the target you are attacking. 

 

Thanks. Two more questions:

 

1. In a scenario where I am dual wielding melee/ranged weapons, what determines which weapon is the "primary" attacking weapon? The weapon that is on your right hand? Or is it determined by your distance to the enemy you are targeting (e.g. melee if melee range, and range if ranged range)?

 

2. From other threads I've read, dual wielding melee/ranged weapon is not so bad as a caster, because you do not have too many weapon-based full attacks. Correct?

Edited October 18, 2018 by Lampros

[Boeroer]

If you are using a melee/ranged setup you will only attack with the melee weapon when in melee range and only with the ranged weapon when you are far away. Full Attacks will get executed with both weapons if you are melee but only the ranged ones will be used if you are far away.

 

THat way you can abuse melee-only Full Attacks with ranged weapons in the offhand. For example:

 

You have a sword and a pistol and you kill an enemy while using Cleaving Stance then both weapons will be used for the bonus Full Attack. 

[Prince of Lies]

Your mainhand (primary weapon) is the slot to the left, your offhand (secondary weapon/shield/torch) is the slot to the right.
 
To continue from my last post:
 
Both auto-attacks and full attack abilities use your ranged weapon at range, and your melee weapon at melee- but never both at the same time. Doesn't seem to matter what hand you are wielding them.
 
Let's say you have a Pistol and a Sabre equipped.
 
If you attack at range it would be:

[Full Attack Ability (Pistol Damage/Effects) w/ Pistol Attack Speed] -> Pistol Reload -> REPEAT

If you attack in melee it would be:

[Full Attack Ability (Sabre Damage/Effects) w/ Sabre Attack Speed] -> Sabre Recovery -> REPEAT

Auto-attacking works the same. This essentially makes your offhand weapon a stat stick and a way to decrease recovery for when you do use a weapon-based full attack.

EDIT: Ninja'd.
 

You have a sword and a pistol and you kill an enemy while using Cleaving Stance then both weapons will be used for the bonus Full Attack.

Did not realize that. Is it the same with Riposte?

Edited October 18, 2018 by Prince of Lies

[Boeroer]

It used to be the same with Riposte. Also Whirling Strikes could be abused that way. Maybe those got fixed in the meantime.

 

There's also some weird stuff going on with Red Hand + Cleaving Stance. I got an additional attack on kill although the Red Hand is obviously a ranged weapon. I reported it but got no answer so I guess that is still a thing.

[Prince of Lies]

Yeah, I tried the Red Hand + Cleaving Stance thing and wasn't able to replicate it myself. 

[Boeroer]

Ok, then maybe it got fixed in the meantime.