Evaluating T8 and T9 abilities (solo classes)

[Boeroer]

Endgame Single Class basically get 3 different advantages over Multi ones :

- Tier 8 / Tier 9 abilities.

- 2-3 PL, which are very significant for some classes and abilities

- Additional ressources for their class

 

I would add that for me the biggest advantage of Single Classes is that they can get certain "game changers" a lot earlier as well. I think that more than balances the lower resource pools. Of course that's not that relevant when we only look at the endgame. But since you are bothered by the lower resource pool so much I thought I bring it up.

[Dr <3]

 

Single class barbs are fine for groups and OK with bosses.

 

The real issue with the class is a lack of T8/T9 choices... everyone turns into a HoF clone single class.

Not if you want to go for Instrument of Boundless Rage or Dazing Shout + Blood Thirst.

 

Actually being able to do nearly endless Dazing Shouts in a row (when first using Frenzy) with Bloodlust and then -Thirst and regaining rage through Blood Surge is much better than HoF. Dazing Shout costs 1 rage and Blood Surge gives you +1 Rage on kill. You turn into a superspeed cc/nuker with endless resources.

I think that driving roar ( if having good int and some power level bonus) + bloodthirst is one of the best combo of late game.

 

Driving roar does much more dmg than the other ( althoung in a huge line instead than a circle around you)

 

You basically become a HUGE CANNON , that throws major dmg and interrupts (! On hit) with 0 recovery (after first kill). Is also very fun to aim. You just have to find a corner/wall ( just for don't get totally surrounded) and start firing. And you can fire about 8-10 round per combat, that are more than enough for most bounties, just for saying...

[Verde]

Druids get Greater Maelstrom which is one of the best best nukes, no?

[Manveru123]

Yeah but Wizard is still better. The only competitive Druid subclass is not available to the players ._.

[Verde]

Wizards can't heal tho.

[heldred]

General thoughts...

 

I think any evaluation of T8/T9s the number of options should be evaluated. The goal should be to not have a 2-3x disparity.l in options.

 

Regarding he power evaluation, I agree many builds are “viable,” but the issue is contrast. When you compare a single class Wiz to a Barb, the Wiz has superior choices, flexibility, and overall power. If we had PvP, I think these factors would be even more obvious. With PvE, (solo or party) the Wiz is superior for the same reason:

 

T8/T9 choices

flexibility of builds from nuker to melee

adaptability to counter monsters by applying different damage types

durability from buffs

power defined as cc, aoe nuking, and single target damage

Edited September 12, 2018 by heldred

[Manveru123]

Wizards can't heal tho.

Yeah I was talking purely about nuking power.

[heldred]

Scrolls make any class a competent healer.

 

Potions also work for healing.

 

Items can apply some healing, but scrolls are my first choice, unless the build can’t allow for Arcana to go 7+

Edited September 12, 2018 by heldred

[Elric Galad]

 

Wizards can't heal tho.

Yeah I was talking purely about nuking power.

That's a bit like complaining that Rogue are top single target DPS. It is expected that Wiz should be the best nuker. Even fury has a bit of support to counterbalance.

[Manveru123]

I'm not complaining, just stating a fact. I prefer Tekehu as my nuker anyway because his spells are FoE AoE.

[Verde]

 

 

Wizards can't heal tho.

Yeah I was talking purely about nuking power.

That's a bit like complaining that Rogue are top single target DPS. It is expected that Wiz should be the best nuker. Even fury has a bit of support to counterbalance.

He's not complaining I'm just saying if you compare the entirety of a class, Druids offer utility Wizards don't. And as you said, Shark Boy has his advantages as well.

 

But really all you need is 15 Arcana to nuke. Nothing beats Meteor Shower or Greater Maelstrom.

[pi2repsion]

Scrolls make any class a competent healer.

 

Potions also work for healing.

 

Items can apply some healing, but scrolls are my first choice, unless the build can’t allow for Arcana to go 7+

Scrolls can also make any class a competent nuker.

 

If that singleclass chanter who has the best and most powerful summons in the game and has one of them active, at the same time as he is buffing his entire party or hurting the enemy via one or two powerful chants (swamping them with skeletons or whatnot), and uses his spare phrases to foe-jump-nuke cold/crush or paralyze groups of enemies, wants more nuking between his invocations, he can do that. Heck, he'll even get an extra bonus to Arcana if he uses the Animancy cat rather than Nelvi for groupwide armour recovery penalty reduction.

 

Of course, making a character a competent nuker with scrolls runs the same problem as making him a competent healer with scrolls - while materials for low- and mid-tier scrolls are plentiful and can easily be bought in shops, the high-end materials are usually few and far between limiting the use of high tier scrolls. Not an insurmountable problem, but it does mean the player can't fling around high-tier scrolls as easily as he'd be using high-tier healing or nuking spells.

Edited September 12, 2018 by pi2repsion

[heldred]

I agree, Arcana 15 makes anyone deadly late game. I think it is the most powerful skill in the game and really should be capped to spells T5 and under.

 

Personally, I hate consummables (scrolls) that replicate class defining or late game abilities... it cheapens everything.

 

For kicks I had my Paladin throw meteor storm 2x to wipe Concelhaut and his buddies for kicks. The rest of my party hung out and watched from a safe distance.

 

Yeah, not well thought out...

[dunehunter]

I agree, Arcana 15 makes anyone deadly late game. I think it is the most powerful skill in the game and really should be capped to spells T5 and under.

 

Personally, I hate consummables (scrolls) that replicate class defining or late game abilities... it cheapens everything.

 

For kicks I had my Paladin throw meteor storm 2x to wipe Concelhaut and his buddies for kicks. The rest of my party hung out and watched from a safe distance.

 

Yeah, not well thought out...

 

And consumables like bomb and scrolls are relatively cheap, which means as long as u are not a hoarder, u can craft tons of them to spam in late game because money is not an issue.

Edited September 13, 2018 by dunehunter

[Boeroer]

Personally, I hate consummables (scrolls) that replicate class defining or late game abilities... it cheapens everything.

 

 

This. This a hundred times.

[Elric Galad]

Yup but I think there shall be nuking scrolls and healing scrolls anyway. This type of ability is basic, so it does not matter if it is 100% identical to the ability version.

 

It is however much more annoying for very unique spells such as Avenging Storm.

 

By the way, it's Maelstorm spell which replicated the scroll, not the other way around ;-)

Edited September 13, 2018 by Elric Galad

[knownastherat]

Arcana build, the strongest class ... oh wait! 

[Manveru123]

I sell literally every scroll I find (except late game when I'm swimming in money). Do the same. Problem.. well, not solved, but you put a patch on it I guess?

[Verde]

 

Personally, I hate consummables (scrolls) that replicate class defining or late game abilities... it cheapens everything.

 

 

This. This a hundred times.

[Dr <3]

 

 

Personally, I hate consummables (scrolls) that replicate class defining or late game abilities... it cheapens everything.

 

 

This. This a hundred times.