[Polished] Single-Class Ascendant Build (Feedback Appreciated)

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Hey guys;

 

Figured I'd share my updated Ascendant single-class build after all of the feedback I received in the previous thread. Features updated abilities, attributes, and gear selection as well as a statement of intent and a few specific questions. 

 

First off... Why a single-class Ascendant, compared to a Mindstalker, or anything else? 

 

The reason I opted to go with a single-class Cipher is primarily because of earlier access to some of the most fun powers (Disintegrate, Amplified Wave) as well as access to some very good PL8 and PL9 active and passive abilities (Time Parasite, Death of 1,000 Cuts, A Soul's Echo, Shared Nightmare). I really enjoyed my Cipher in the first game from a pure roleplay perspective. 

 

That said, there are some things I definitely wish would be improved. Cipher really lacks a lot of the visual *oomph* that Wizards get with many of their powers. So that's a little disappointing. Granted, visual *oomph* is a problem with pretty much every class in Deadfire not named Wizard or Priest, and watching a particularly troublesome enemy more or less just *evaporate* when hit with a Disintegrate is incredibly satisfying. 

 

A lot of this build comes from 1TTFFSSE's "Dat Arsehole Ascendant" build, so props go to them for pointing out a lot of these synergies. This isn't an exact rip, as I've adjusted some things for RP flavor. 

 

This is not a solo build. I'm hoping the introduction of megabosses will make party play a tad more exciting.

 

The Build:

 

Race: Pale Elf (For customization and flavor - I'm hoping for reactivity from the Beast of Winter DLC)

 

Class: Cipher (Ascendant)

 

Culture/Background: Old Vallia/Aristocrat (Aristocrat has the largest number of dialogue choices, Old Vallia is picked because this is a pro-Vallian Watcher and the Vallian Republics aren't an option*

 

Skills: Arcana and Mechanics (Active)/Insight, Diplomacy, and Metaphysics (Passives)**

 

Attributes: Two stat spreads. One is min-max focused, the other isn't. Ostensibly, both are workable with low to no Recovery penalty from armor, but I'm interested to hear your thoughts on both of them. 

 

17 Might (13 Base + 1 Gift of the Machine +2 Berath's Blessing +1 Permanent Stat Boost)

10 Con (8 Base +2 Berath's Blessing)
21 Dexterity (17 Base +1 Pale Elf +2 Berath's Blessing +1 Aegor's Swift Touch)
20 Perception (16 Base +1 Pale Elf +2 Berath's Blessing +1 Kuaru's Prize)
24 Intellect (18 Base +2 Berath's Blessing +1 Old Vallia +2 Torc of Intellect +1 Kuaru's Prize)

5 Resolve (3 Base +2 Berath's Blessing)

 

OR

 

17 Might (13 Base + 1 Gift of the Machine +2 Berath's Blessing +1 Permanent Stat Boost)

10 Con (8 Base +2 Berath's Blessing)
16 Dexterity (12 Base +1 Pale Elf +2 Berath's Blessing +1 Aegor's Swift Touch)
20 Perception (16 Base +1 Pale Elf +2 Berath's Blessing +1 Kuaru's Prize)
24 Intellect (18 Base +2 Berath's Blessing +1 Old Vallia +2 Torc of Intellect +1 Kuaru's Prize)
10 Resolve (8 Base +2 Berath's Blessing)

 

Leaning toward the second one myself. I lose out on +15% Action Speed, but in exchange the duration of hostile effects isn't increased. 

 

Abilities:

 

Level 1: Tenuous Grasp (It's a fairly consistent -20 Will Primer against non resistant foes that leaves them open for further Will attacks. 

Level 2: Whispers of Treason (Retrain to Penetrating Visions after getting Puppet Master)

Level 3: Mind Blades (Retrain to Recall Agony after picking up Disintegrate and Amplified Wave) and Draining Whip

Level 4: Iron Will

Level 5: Puppet Master (Retrain to Two-Handed Style after getting Ringleader) and Hammering Thoughts

Level 6: Secret Horrors

Level 7: Silent Scream/Body Attunement

Level 8: Ectopsychic Echo

Level 9: Ringleader and Borrowed Instinct

Level 10: Rapid Casting

Level 11: Amplified Wave and Disintegrate

Level 12: The Empty Soul

Level 13: Ancestor's Honor and Echoing Horror

Level 14: Tough

Level 15: Echoing Shield

Level 16: Time Parasite and A Soul's Echo

Level 17: Accurate Empower

Level 18: Potent Empower

Level 19: Death of 1000 Cuts and Shared Nightmare

Level 20: Prestige OR Protective Soul

 

Equipment:

 

Weapons: Several weapon sets...

 

1. Essence Interruptor: For auto-attacking to build Focus after exhausting per-encounter abilities. Deals best of Pierce or Shock, can be upgraded with either a Burning Lash or a Shock Lash that scales with Metaphysics (Though I have some questions about that). 

 

2. Kitchen Stove/Thundercrack Pistol: Kitchen Stove upgraded with Thunderous Report and Thundercrack Pistol upgraded with Storm Rune Shot. 1/encounter and 1/rest abilities that pump out enough Focus to auto-Ascend. 

 

2a. Griffin's Blade/Kitchen Stove: Adds another +10% Spell damage (A value of ~3 extra Might).

 

3. Amira's Wing - A rod that comes with a built in Wilting Wind effect (1/rest) which is another way to generate enough Focus to prompt Ascension. 

 

Armor: 

 

High Harbinger's Robes (Albeit with the enchantments copied over to a Valian Frock Coat for aesthetic using the Unity Console Mod) for spell damage. 

 

Neck: Precognition or Torc of Intellect (+2 Intellect) for buff duration and AoE range. Stat block assumes Torc of Intellect. 

 

Cloak: Cloak of Greater Protection.

 

Hands: Aegor's Swift Touch

 

Ring 1: Ring of the Marksman

 

Ring 2: Kuaru's Prize 

 

Waist: Gwyn's Bridal Garter, The Maker's Own Power, or the Upright Captain's Belt. 

 

Boots: Bounding Boots - for an escape option in early levels, then consider upgrading to Rakhan Field Boots for mid-late game. 

 

Final Questions:

 

1. When testing the Essence Interruptor, no matter what I scaled my Metaphysics to, the Shock lash still read as 5%. Is this an interface bug, or does it have something to do with cheating my way to max level for testing purposes? 

 

2. I want to work Mind Plague into my build somewhere, but I'm not sure what to get rid of for it. Tough seems like the obvious choice, though that drops me down to ~190 HP at level 20, which seems way too low to take any hits, unless Deadfire made it so dragons don't insta-KO squishies anymore. 

 

3. Thoughts on the two stat spreads? Right now, I'm feeling the 10 Resolve one. 

 

4. Any thoughts on the abilities in general aside from where to put Mind Plague?

 

5. Thoughts on the equipment, regarding which belt would be best to aim for? 

 

Thanks for taking the time to look over this. Once I get these last few issues ironed out, a completed version (With lore and music) is incoming. 

[1TTFFSSE]

You can Drop Potent Empower for Mind plague, and optional take the beam attack at level Antipathetic Field. I guess. You kind of want fast beam/multihit attacks in endgame if you are using Death of 1000 Cuts because that's how that spell works as it ticks extra raw damage on a target everytime it gets damaged by something else - like a beam attack. It may be faster than positioning an ally with Echto echo but that works too.

 

I would personally drop tough instead of potent empower for the reason you can use Konstenten's buff to increase con. 

 

By the way, Echoing Shield vs Tactical Meld is another decision as both are great. And Tactical Meld is great to cast on the party rogue/x so they can deal even more damage (along with you).

 

Because of how Death 1000 works you want a fast beam attack or Mind blades in your repertoire (see above point). 

 

Also pick up The Red Hand when you can in Nekataka its still a great weapon and you should try it out to see if you prefer it to the hunting bow in the mid game. Before you get amp wave (even after you get silent scream) a lot of time you will be spamming charm/ secret horrors and mind blades so know your play will be a bit restrictive until you can get more spell variety at later levels to open options up. 

 

Metaphysics bonus on Essence interrupter is lackluster like 0.20% damage per metaphysics point but it is still a nice weapon considering you get it on the starting island. 

Edited September 7, 2018 by 1TTFFSSE

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

You can Drop Potent Empower for Mind plague, and optional take the beam attack at level Antipathetic Field. I guess. You kind of want fast beam/multihit attacks in endgame if you are using Death of 1000 Cuts because that's how that spell works as it ticks extra raw damage on a target everytime it gets damaged by something else - like a beam attack. It may be faster than positioning an ally with Echto echo but that works too.

 

I would personally drop tough instead of potent empower for the reason you can use Konstenten's buff to increase con. 

 

By the way, Echoing Shield vs Tactical Meld is another decision as both are great. And Tactical Meld is great to cast on the party rogue/x so they can deal even more damage (along with you).

 

Because of how Death 1000 works you want a fast beam attack or Mind blades in your repertoire (see above point). 

 

Also pick up The Red Hand when you can in Nekataka its still a great weapon and you should try it out to see if you prefer it to the hunting bow in the mid game. Before you get amp wave (even after you get silent scream) a lot of time you will be spamming charm/ secret horrors and mind blades so know your play will be a bit restrictive until you can get more spell variety at later levels to open options up. 

 

Metaphysics bonus on Essence interrupter is lackluster like 0.20% damage per metaphysics point but it is still a nice weapon considering you get it on the starting island. 

 

Thanks for the clarification on the Metaphysics bonus. I still like the idea of the Essence Interruptor because it does best of damage, and I'm a fan of that, though the Red Hand works too and suits the sort of character I'm trying to play. Is the Double Tap enchantment any good on PotD with upscaling? Does it work based on relative level to you, or always against certain types of Vessels? 

 

The limited variety is definitely a shame, but it's counterbalanced somewhat by having more variety than I would have had playing a melee focused character. I just like different ways to make enemies go boom. 

 

I'll definitely consider Tactical Meld vs Echoing Shield. I plan to have Eder as a Swashbuckler Riposte tank, so I can cast it on him for extra engagements. 

 

I do like having Metaphysics at least somewhat high for specific dialogue interactions. It's a shame they nerfed those specific skill effects on weapons so much, since you essentially have to gimp yourself roleplay wise to use them. But, again, see posts about balancing a single player game. 

 

Does Antipathetic Field affect the enemy targeted as well as all enemies between them and the caster? If so, I might take it over Ectopsychic Echo. Or both. I could grab Antipathetic Field instead of Tenuous Grasp at first level. 

 

Didn't know about Konstanten's bonus. Is that something you can ask him for after he becomes a party member? Because if so, I'll have to consider a party slot for him, especially if he gets some interactions in future DLC. 

 

Instead of retraining Puppet Master to Two-Handed Style when I get Ringleader, I might retrain it to Mind Blades instead. That way I'll have that, Recall Agony, a few fast beam attacks, and Death of 1,000 to set up a big combo. 

 

Thoughts? 

[Haplok]

Don't take Double Tap on a Cipher. With that enchant, you wouldn't generate Focus in encounters with vessels. Two handed style is desirable if you plan to auto-attack. That's also potentially 15% faster Ascension.

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Might also swap out the Cloak of Greater Protection for the Giftbearer's Cloak even if I don't plan to bump up History that much. Having the extra weapon slot and quick item slot seems more useful than the +5 extra Defenses. Curious to hear further thoughts on this. 

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Also, I confirmed it for myself. You do lose out on Konstanten's resting bonus when you recruit him. Kind of a shame, really. Or at least you lose it when he's in the party. Not sure if you can get it from him on the Defiant. 

 

That said, it's +2 Con/+1 Perception/+1 Intellect. That brings my (Buffed) Intellect to 25 before Inspirations. AKA, 150% AoE range and 75% effect duration. 

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

So, thoughts on the belt and swapping out the Cloak of Greater Protection for the Giftbearer's Cloth? (I think it's 20 History to make it better than a CoGP, 10 History for it to be equivalent?). For the belt, I'm considering The Maker's Own Power (A heal and +1 Might, as well as some Crush armor rating - the build lacks any physical armor otherwise). 

 

I'll pick up The Red Hand and play around with it. I do like the way my character wears it. The extra Penetration and innate Veil Piercing might help it win out over the Essence Interruptor. 

 

Edit: And maybe take Mind Blades instead of Iron Will? +15 Will seems like it'd come in really handy though. 

Edited September 8, 2018 by Cyrus_Blackfeather

[Elric Galad]

Are you 100% sure you'll never have to cast spells before Ascension ?
-1PL isn't so bad, especially considering Ascendant starts with more focus and generates it faster.

I would have kept Whispers of Treason as a backup for such cases (it won't delay Ascension that much).

[Dorftek]

So, thoughts on the belt and swapping out the Cloak of Greater Protection for the Giftbearer's Cloth? (I think it's 20 History to make it better than a CoGP, 10 History for it to be equivalent?). For the belt, I'm considering The Maker's Own Power (A heal and +1 Might, as well as some Crush armor rating - the build lacks any physical armor otherwise).

 

I'll pick up The Red Hand and play around with it. I do like the way my character wears it. The extra Penetration and innate Veil Piercing might help it win out over the Essence Interruptor.

 

Edit: And maybe take Mind Blades instead of Iron Will? +15 Will seems like it'd come in really handy though.

Mindblades are one of few must have cipher spells. It is used Vs 2-3 targets. Amplified wave is used Vs bigger crowds and given ur high Int score I'd use Detonate Vs singletargets rather then Disintegrate cuz those 20dmg tics won't be thrilling Edited September 8, 2018 by Dorftek

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

 

So, thoughts on the belt and swapping out the Cloak of Greater Protection for the Giftbearer's Cloth? (I think it's 20 History to make it better than a CoGP, 10 History for it to be equivalent?). For the belt, I'm considering The Maker's Own Power (A heal and +1 Might, as well as some Crush armor rating - the build lacks any physical armor otherwise).

 

I'll pick up The Red Hand and play around with it. I do like the way my character wears it. The extra Penetration and innate Veil Piercing might help it win out over the Essence Interruptor.

 

Edit: And maybe take Mind Blades instead of Iron Will? +15 Will seems like it'd come in really handy though.

Mindblades are one of few must have cipher spells. It is used Vs 2-3 targets. Amplified wave is used Vs bigger crowds and given ur high Int score I'd use Detonate Vs singletargets rather then Disintegrate cuz those 20dmg tics won't be thrilling

 

 

... Really? It only ticks for 20 damage? 

 

I'll try to work Mind Blades into the build somewhere. Just not sure where I want to put it. 

 

 

Are you 100% sure you'll never have to cast spells before Ascension ?

-1PL isn't so bad, especially considering Ascendant starts with more focus and generates it faster.

I would have kept Whispers of Treason as a backup for such cases (it won't delay Ascension that much).

 

Not sure where to put Whispers of Treason, honestly. I could keep it instead of Penetrating Visions, since a lot of my spells deal Raw damage anyway - it really only benefits Mind Blades. 

[Dorftek]

With that high Int the tics will be very very low yes

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

With that high Int the tics will be very very low yes

 

Hmm. We seem to be at an impasse here. 

 

I COULD drop Intellect down a fair bit (Say by four points) for 20 Intellect, with gear taken into account. I could then put the other points somewhere else - back into Dexterity maybe. The issue is, I don't know HOW low Intellect has to be in order to deal with the tick counting issue from skills like Disintegrate. An average Int test Cipher was ticking for about 75, but that was against a much weaker character. 

 

I've also read elsewhere that Grazes are actually DESIRABLE for spells like Disintegrate and others, because they halve duration, which means each individual tick deals more damage. This is patently ridiculous - why should you be rewarded for missing the mark? 

 

Then of course, Intellect also seriously benefits other Cipher powers - buffs and debuffs, as well as the AoE range of things like Amplified Wave. So dropping Intellect low enough to get the most out of Disintegrate would penalize me in regards to those other abilities. 

 

Is Obsidian aware of this problem and are there plans to fix it, or am I better off going with Detonate as a way to frontload a decent chunk of Raw damage V.S. single targets? 

[1TTFFSSE]

I mean disintegrate is still better on boss/high hp targets. Especially considering high hp targets have high fortitude so you graze more often = win/win. Detonate is better agains normal mob encounters but if there are 2/3 regular mobs just cast mind blades. If there is one left someone should mop it up while you can cast a beam on it or recall agony. No big deal.

 

By the way I think last time I had it Antopathetic field did hit the targeted mob and all enemies AND ALLIES! in the beam path. 

 

As for ranged auto attack weapons my favorites are

1.) Aamina's Legacy

2. The Red Hand

3.) Essence Interrutor 

 

The first two are kind of equal in damage done but Red hand more bursty/irregular while Aamina's Legacy is a constant damage stream. But over longer periods of attacking the damage is about the same. 

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

I mean disintegrate is still better on boss/high hp targets. Especially considering high hp targets have high fortitude so you graze more often = win/win. Detonate is better agains normal mob encounters but if there are 2/3 regular mobs just cast mind blades. If there is one left someone should mop it up while you can cast a beam on it or recall agony. No big deal.

 

By the way I think last time I had it Antopathetic field did hit the targeted mob and all enemies AND ALLIES! in the beam path. 

 

As for ranged auto attack weapons my favorites are

1.) Aamina's Legacy

2. The Red Hand

3.) Essence Interrutor 

 

The first two are kind of equal in damage done but Red hand more bursty/irregular while Aamina's Legacy is a constant damage stream. But over longer periods of attacking the damage is about the same. 

 

Thanks for that! It didn't look like it was doing that when I tested it, but I might have been missing the prompts - I'll have to look at it again. 

 

I like the Red Hand from an aesthetic standpoint, but I'll play around with all of them just to see which one is more appealing. 

 

I'm excited to start this out, because it seems like it's one of the higher damage potential builds out there.

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Level 1: Antipathetic Field (Instead of Tenuous Grasp)

 

Level 2: Whispers of Treason (Retrain to Penetrating Visions after getting Puppet Master)

 

Level 3: Recall Agony and Draining Whip

 

Level 4: Mind Blades (Instead of Iron Will)

 

Level 5: Puppet Master (Retrain to Two-Handed Style after getting Ringleader) and Hammering Thoughts

 

Level 6: Secret Horrors

 

Level 7: Silent Scream/Body Attunement

 

Level 8: Ectopsychic Echo

 

Level 9: Ringleader and Borrowed Instinct

 

Level 10: Rapid Casting

 

Level 11: Amplified Wave and Disintegrate

 

Level 12: The Empty Soul

 

Level 13: Ancestor's Honor and Echoing Horror

 

Level 14: Mind Plague (Instead of Tough)*

 

Level 15: Tactical Meld (Instead of Echoing Shield)* 

 

Level 16: Time Parasite and A Soul's Echo

 

Level 17: Accurate Empower

 

Level 18: Potent Empower

 

Level 19: Death of 1000 Cuts and Shared Nightmare

 

Level 20: Prestige OR Protective Soul

 

Belt - Use Upright Captain's Belt for +1 Con and free Concentration at combat start. 

 

What do you guys think of these? Also, what other Constitution bonuses can I stack with Konstanten's for more of an HP buffer? Does his last for two Rests (Allowing me to use it and the +2 Constitution shrine outside of Neketaka)?

 

Not sure about Tactical Meld vs Echoing Shield. 

Edited September 8, 2018 by Cyrus_Blackfeather

[mant2si]

I checked your L15 - L20 abilities list pick and I don't think that you really want pure Cipher
 

Level 16: Time Parasite and A Soul's Echo

Level 17: Accurate Empower

Level 18: Potent Empower

Level 19: Death of 1000 Cuts and Shared Nightmare

Level 20: Prestige OR Protective Soul

So in summary: You plan to take one more DPS skill which will target Fortitude and one spell which will increase your speed ? I offer you to check Transcendent (Nalpazca), why ? Because it will give you full attack with range weapon + 20% lash for all your skills + 2 PEN and cool summon ability

You need more reason ? Because you can control amount of your int :D You can spend all wounds at once or wait for 10 wounds and cast Borrowed Instinct. It's mean you can low your int and MAX Dexterity and Might



 

Edited September 8, 2018 by mant2si

[mant2si]

Or ... if you don't like monk subclass check https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/104892-build-witch-the-banshee-build-very-high-damage-berserkerascendant-rdps-caster/ , this caster didn't nerfed with latest patch and can low-ever enemies fortitude by 20 with single spell

It is very stylish and cool build

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

 

I checked your L15 - L20 abilities list pick and I don't think that you really want pure Cipher

 

Level 16: Time Parasite and A Soul's Echo

Level 17: Accurate Empower

Level 18: Potent Empower

Level 19: Death of 1000 Cuts and Shared Nightmare

Level 20: Prestige OR Protective Soul

So in summary: You plan to take one more DPS skill which will target Fortitude and one spell which will increase your speed ? I offer you to check Transcendent (Nalpazca), why ? Because it will give you full attack with range weapon + 20% lash for all your skills + 2 PEN and cool summon ability

 

You need more reason ? Because you can control amount of your int :D You can spend all wounds at once or wait for 10 wounds and cast Borrowed Instinct. It's mean you can low your int and MAX Dexterity and Might

 

 

 

 

 

 

It also gives me earlier access to high end DPS powers, passive abilities that increase AoE size based on Focus amount and give my Will targeting abilities hit-to-crit. 

[mant2si]

 

 

It also gives me earlier access to high end DPS powers, passive abilities that increase AoE size based on Focus amount and give my Will targeting abilities hit-to-crit. 

 

Yeah that right, but well... just believe me it's very boring, there no wow effect, you will be slow 80% of time and only 20% of game with time parasite proc (for 12s), I only notice that you orient on DPS instead of CC or supporting, that why I offered you other classes

[1TTFFSSE]

Yeah that is the main reason to go pure cipher to get amp wave as early as possible and play a big chunk of a game with it. 

 

Shared Nightmare is the best thing about pure cipher ascendant (level 9 passive) - in ascendant state amp wave has a huge aoe then that hits the whole screen. Sure monk and barb variations as well as streetfighter have slight easier speed buffs to cast things rapidly but smaller aoe size. 

 

also from my understanding monk has a 15% lightning lash no? and turning wheel fire lash only affects melee weapon attacks?

Edited September 8, 2018 by 1TTFFSSE

[mant2si]

Yeah that is the main reason to go pure cipher to get amp wave as early as possible and play a big chunk of a game with it. 

 

Shared Nightmare is the best thing about pure cipher ascendant (level 9 passive) - in ascendant state amp wave has a huge aoe then that hits the whole screen. Sure monk and barb variations as well as streetfighter have slight easier speed buffs to cast things rapidly but smaller aoe size. 

I tested all your Ciphers builds, but Witch my favorite, I can't play pure Cipher after it, even with big AOE I don't think that you can chain kills and stop all enemies to Engage at single spell 

 

Leaping over map is also super cool feature

Edited September 8, 2018 by mant2si

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Yeah that is the main reason to go pure cipher to get amp wave as early as possible and play a big chunk of a game with it. 

 

Shared Nightmare is the best thing about pure cipher ascendant (level 9 passive) - in ascendant state amp wave has a huge aoe then that hits the whole screen. Sure monk and barb variations as well as streetfighter have slight easier speed buffs to cast things rapidly but smaller aoe size. 

 

also from my understanding monk has a 15% lightning lash no? and turning wheel fire lash only affects melee weapon attacks?

 

Turning Wheel is, I think, only melee weapon damage, and Lightning Strikes is only weapon damage in general. So the lashes would allow for quicker Focus gain, but don't affect spell damage. 

[mant2si]

 

Yeah that is the main reason to go pure cipher to get amp wave as early as possible and play a big chunk of a game with it. 

 

Shared Nightmare is the best thing about pure cipher ascendant (level 9 passive) - in ascendant state amp wave has a huge aoe then that hits the whole screen. Sure monk and barb variations as well as streetfighter have slight easier speed buffs to cast things rapidly but smaller aoe size. 

 

also from my understanding monk has a 15% lightning lash no? and turning wheel fire lash only affects melee weapon attacks?

 

Turning Wheel is, I think, only melee weapon damage, and Lightning Strikes is only weapon damage in general. So the lashes would allow for quicker Focus gain, but don't affect spell damage. 

 

Turning wheel fire lash affects all skills no matter of source and Lightning Strikes affect only weapon

Edited September 8, 2018 by mant2si

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Yeah that is the main reason to go pure cipher to get amp wave as early as possible and play a big chunk of a game with it. 

 

Shared Nightmare is the best thing about pure cipher ascendant (level 9 passive) - in ascendant state amp wave has a huge aoe then that hits the whole screen. Sure monk and barb variations as well as streetfighter have slight easier speed buffs to cast things rapidly but smaller aoe size. 

 

also from my understanding monk has a 15% lightning lash no? and turning wheel fire lash only affects melee weapon attacks?

 

That said, your Witch build, of the Cipher builds it seems you've used, seems to do pretty high damage. I just don't really like being so frail. 

 

I wonder if there's a tankier Cipher I could play for this kind of character - maybe an Inquisitor or something. 

 

I've also considered a Wael Priest (Since Priests get a lot of interactivity too)/Paladin. 

 

It might help if I share a little about the kind of character I want to play. 

 

Basically, he's meant to be a Vallian operative who works for the Republics in order to perform espionage, sabotage, and, if the situation requires it, assassination. I wanted a Cipher because I thought it really fit that sort of aesthetic - someone who lays the enemy's soul bare and plunders all of their secrets. But a Priest of Wael would also work well, thematically. 

Edited September 9, 2018 by Cyrus_Blackfeather

[1TTFFSSE]

I mean Witch is more a Principi character because it is kind of chaotic in nature with the barbarian. 

 

Transcendent would work for Villain because I think monk is more "disciplined" neutral/lawful character by nature. I am testing the turning wheel transcendent currently and it is strong. But I am testing Helwalker so it is actually more squishy than a Witch, which has access to Borrowed Instinct + Savage Defiance (pick one) + lots of Con/hp because of barbarian. Helwalker pretty much melts under any kind of pressure without access to barring death's door or high defensive stats., or paired with a tanky class.

 

I am not quite done with the test but at level 20 in same equipment across toons and stats damage in the cipher shootout is 1.) Witch (Berserker) 2.) Transcendent  (Helwalker)3.) Pure Cipher Asc 4.) Mindstalker (Streetfighter)

 

In a playthrough, you can get away by more extreme min/maxed stats on a Witch than a Transcendent actually if you go helwalker. So I would recommend a Nalpazca unless you are pairing the monk with a "tanky" class. 

 

But this is all at high level when game is practically finished. Having access to amplified wave at like level 11 makes many encounters much more easier earlier. I remember playing Hardcore Deadly deadfire in a party and at level 12 or 13? fights like Hasongo or Fire Dragon (without fire cloak) were pretty challenging for a party with a Mindstalker dps who did not have amp wave yet, when I switched to pure cipher at those levels those encounters were much easier. 

 

If you are unsure which caster to play seriously just load a random save, hire a bunch of adventurers level them up with unity / gear them and play around with them to see what suits you.

 

My default gear for tests are:

-High Harbinger Robes

-Orishia

-Gauntlets of Ogre Might

-Cloak of Greater Protection

-Boots of Speed

-Gwyn's Bridal 

-Kuaru's Prize

-Ring of the Marksman

-Acina's Trihorn

 

For me personally pure cipher kinda hurts because I cannot deny that ability selection after level 6 spells is less than ideal. And it is a cool character with nice animations and flair and decently strong but it feels like it hits its peak when it gets those level 6 spells and from there it kinda fades because for a level 8 spell time parasite cast to freakin last the whole combat to justify being a level 8 spell - and it does not - compare it to blood frenzy which is much more efficient or deleterious alactrity of motion which is a faster cast and last longer (and a level 3 spell!). 

 

And I would say finally that pure ciphers are stronger in wizards in the mid game once you have those level 6 spells (and hence the strongest practical caster for most of the game because they peak relatively early).