Figurines 1.2.0

Gary1986 · June 28, 2018

"Figurine Items are now charged items with an additional limit of 1/Rest use"

Could I get an explanation on why figurines now have charges? Is it because people complained about it in a single player game and they couldn't hold themselves back from using them, so now we have to treat them and everybody else like babies by adding limited charges to them?

I just don't get nerfs like this in a single player game.

Edited June 28, 2018 by Gary1986

Archaven · June 29, 2018

can't wait for obsidian to chase all their gamers away

Haha you looks mad

well not exactly mad. but i'm kinda disappointed with direction obsidian is heading towards. first the figurines were already per rest in 1.1. now they made it per charge. if you want to make it like consumables, fine. you have to at least let people replenish it (with a cost). this is not nerf. this is taking away options. is like telling you the whole game will have 5 cinder bombs, 8 healing scrolls and if you used it that's it. there's no more and you can't but it anymore.

thing is this figurine is optional. someone posted here which i agree. if you find the game easy you don't really have to use it. so they who find the game easy because they can't control themselves for using it then they force developer to change it. what kind of logic is that? you can even stop yourself for resting (there's a build for no rest playthrough). does that mean if people complain the game too easy because you can rest and therefore they come out with a change that you can only rest 5 times in the whole game. so rest at your own risk. so isn't this stupid? if you ask me the person who make it as charges is really stupid.

if you want to give additional challenges put it in an option on new game. disable potion, disable figurines, gimp yourself, max level cap is level 8 or whatever shiat then do it as an option. put it even as an achievement if they want. not forcing people on it. this is clearly not nerf but taking away options. is the same frustration that i have that they make swift furry melee only which previously includes range. they should have instead balance the proc rate, the damage but no they remove it. this is breaking people's build. not nerf!. the designer who did this is clearly clueless and stupid.

Edited June 29, 2018 by Archaven

omgFIREBALLS · June 29, 2018

Insolentius might have been a bit heavy with their post, but it's correct. Challenge should come from a properly tuned game. I'm tired of these "self control" and "purposely gimp yourself" posts. If you can't beat the game without figurine spam, lower the difficulty. If that reasoning doesn't sit right with you, I'm as happy to subtly accuse you of lacking virtues as the people droning on about self control seem to be.

Gfted1 · June 29, 2018

So, git gud?

Gary1986 · June 29, 2018

Insolentius might have been a bit heavy with their post, but it's correct. Challenge should come from a properly tuned game. I'm tired of these "self control" and "purposely gimp yourself" posts. If you can't beat the game without figurine spam, lower the difficulty. If that reasoning doesn't sit right with you, I'm as happy to subtly accuse you of lacking virtues as the people droning on about self control seem to be.

If people want to spam figurines they should be able too. Why are you telling people how they should play their single player game? If people can't control themselves from figurine spam they shouldn't get the developers to change it so it changes it for everybody.

Zap Gun For Hire · June 29, 2018

For folks who want to revert/keep figurines the way there were in 1.1.1 (and before), the relevant data is in abilities.gamedatabundle NOT in items.gamedatabundle.

For example:

1.1.1:

{
			"$type": "Game.GameData.GenericAbilityGameData, Assembly-CSharp",
			"DebugName": "Figurine_Battered_Dog_Ability",
			"ID": "d413261a-1919-4924-ab10-23b3e03272b5",
			"Components": [{
					"$type": "Game.GameData.GenericAbilityComponent, Assembly-CSharp",
					"KeywordsIDs": ["ddf90f19-c9a2-4087-a1a7-a00ee46bc3dd"],
					"DisplayName": 4072,
					"Description": -1,
					"UpgradeDescriptions": [],
					"UpgradedFromID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
					"Vocalization": "NoVocalization",
					"Icon": "",
					"UsageType": "None",
					"UsageValue": 0,
					"AbilityClass": "None",
					"AbilityLevel": 1,
					"IsPassive": "false",
					"StackingRuleOverride": "Default",
					"TriggerOnHit": "false",
					"IsModal": "false",
					"ModalGroupID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
					"IsCombatOnly": "true",
					"IsNonCombatOnly": "false",
					"HideFromUI": "false",
					"HideFromCombatLog": "false",
					"UniqueSet": "None",
					"NoiseLevelID": "15743f94-1026-40b0-8e13-a667b3f66f63",
					"DurationOverride": 0,
					"OverrideEmpower": "Default",
					"ClearsOnMovement": "false",
					"CannotActivateWhileInStealth": "false",
					"CannotActivateWhileInvisible": "false",
					"ActivationPrerequisites": {
						"Conditional": {
							"Operator": 0,
							"Components": []
						}
					},
					"ApplicationPrerequisites": {
						"Conditional": {
							"Operator": 0,
							"Components": []
						}
					},
					"DeactivationPrerequisites": {
						"Conditional": {
							"Operator": 0,
							"Components": []
						}
					},
					"PowerLevelScaling": {
						"BaseLevel": 0,
						"LevelIncrement": 1,
						"MaxLevel": 0,
						"DamageAdjustment": 1,
						"DurationAdjustment": 1,
						"BounceCountAdjustment": 0,
						"ProjectileCountAdjustment": 0,
						"AccuracyAdjustment": 0,
						"PenetrationAdjustment": 0
					},
					"StatusEffectKeywordsIDs": [],
					"StatusEffectsIDs": [],
					"VisualEffects": [],
					"SelfMaterialReplacementID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
					"AttackID": "7b07ae25-2819-4e32-a025-1459b6b5543d",
					"AITargetingConditional": {
						"Conditional": {
							"Operator": 0,
							"Components": []
						},
						"Scripts": []
					},
					"AudioEventListID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000"
				}, {
					"$type": "Game.GameData.ProgressionUnlockableComponent, Assembly-CSharp"
				}
			]
		},

1.2.0:

{
			"$type": "Game.GameData.GenericAbilityGameData, Assembly-CSharp",
			"DebugName": "Figurine_Battered_Dog_Ability",
			"ID": "d413261a-1919-4924-ab10-23b3e03272b5",
			"Components": [{
					"$type": "Game.GameData.GenericAbilityComponent, Assembly-CSharp",
					"KeywordsIDs": ["ddf90f19-c9a2-4087-a1a7-a00ee46bc3dd"],
					"DisplayName": 4072,
					"Description": -1,
					"UpgradeDescriptions": [],
					"UpgradedFromID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
					"Vocalization": "NoVocalization",
					"Icon": "",
					"UsageType": "Charged",
					"UsageValue": 8,
					"AbilityClassID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
					"AbilityLevel": 0,
					"IsPassive": "false",
					"StackingRuleOverride": "Default",
					"TriggerOnHit": "false",
					"IsModal": "false",
					"ModalGroupID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
					"IsCombatOnly": "true",
					"IsNonCombatOnly": "false",
					"HideFromUI": "false",
					"HideFromCombatLog": "false",
					"UniqueSet": "None",
					"NoiseLevelID": "15743f94-1026-40b0-8e13-a667b3f66f63",
					"DurationOverride": 0,
					"OverrideEmpower": "Default",
					"ClearsOnMovement": "false",
					"CannotActivateWhileInStealth": "false",
					"CannotActivateWhileInvisible": "false",
					"ActivationPrerequisites": {
						"Conditional": {
							"Operator": 0,
							"Components": []
						}
					},
					"ApplicationPrerequisites": {
						"Conditional": {
							"Operator": 0,
							"Components": []
						}
					},
					"DeactivationPrerequisites": {
						"Conditional": {
							"Operator": 0,
							"Components": []
						}
					},
					"PowerLevelScaling": {
						"ScalingType": "ModifiersOnly",
						"BaseLevel": 0,
						"LevelIncrement": 1,
						"MaxLevel": 0,
						"DamageAdjustment": 1,
						"DurationAdjustment": 1,
						"BounceCountAdjustment": 0,
						"ProjectileCountAdjustment": 0,
						"AccuracyAdjustment": 0,
						"PenetrationAdjustment": 0
					},
					"StatusEffectKeywordsIDs": [],
					"StatusEffectsIDs": [],
					"VisualEffects": [],
					"SelfMaterialReplacementID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
					"AttackID": "7b07ae25-2819-4e32-a025-1459b6b5543d",
					"AITargetingConditional": {
						"Conditional": {
							"Operator": 0,
							"Components": []
						},
						"Scripts": []
					},
					"AudioEventListID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000"
				}, {
					"$type": "Game.GameData.ProgressionUnlockableComponent, Assembly-CSharp"
				}
			]
		}

Specifically change:

"UsageType": "Charged",

"UsageValue": 8,

to:

"UsageType": "None",

"UsageValue": 0,

(with the UsuageValue changing as appropriate).

Shouldn't be too hard for someone to mod this up and release it to the community if there is enough demand.

("NOT IT" he quickly said, BTW :lol: )

====

NOTE:::: There's a couple of other differences between the statblocks, but they're not relevant here and have to do with overall changes between 1.1.1 and 1.2.0.

SECOND NOTE:::: The Effigy Doll was already at 1 charge before 1.2.0, so that should be kept as-is if folks just want the functionality as it was in 1.1.1.

Edited June 29, 2018 by Zap Gun For Hire

Gary1986 · June 29, 2018

For folks who want to revert/keep figurines the way there were in 1.1.1 (and before), the relevant data is in abilities.gamedatabundle NOT in items.gamedatabundle.

For example:

1.1.1:

{
			"$type": "Game.GameData.GenericAbilityGameData, Assembly-CSharp",
			"DebugName": "Figurine_Battered_Dog_Ability",
			"ID": "d413261a-1919-4924-ab10-23b3e03272b5",
			"Components": [{
					"$type": "Game.GameData.GenericAbilityComponent, Assembly-CSharp",
					"KeywordsIDs": ["ddf90f19-c9a2-4087-a1a7-a00ee46bc3dd"],
					"DisplayName": 4072,
					"Description": -1,
					"UpgradeDescriptions": [],
					"UpgradedFromID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
					"Vocalization": "NoVocalization",
					"Icon": "",
					"UsageType": "None",
					"UsageValue": 0,
					"AbilityClass": "None",
					"AbilityLevel": 1,
					"IsPassive": "false",
					"StackingRuleOverride": "Default",
					"TriggerOnHit": "false",
					"IsModal": "false",
					"ModalGroupID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
					"IsCombatOnly": "true",
					"IsNonCombatOnly": "false",
					"HideFromUI": "false",
					"HideFromCombatLog": "false",
					"UniqueSet": "None",
					"NoiseLevelID": "15743f94-1026-40b0-8e13-a667b3f66f63",
					"DurationOverride": 0,
					"OverrideEmpower": "Default",
					"ClearsOnMovement": "false",
					"CannotActivateWhileInStealth": "false",
					"CannotActivateWhileInvisible": "false",
					"ActivationPrerequisites": {
						"Conditional": {
							"Operator": 0,
							"Components": []
						}
					},
					"ApplicationPrerequisites": {
						"Conditional": {
							"Operator": 0,
							"Components": []
						}
					},
					"DeactivationPrerequisites": {
						"Conditional": {
							"Operator": 0,
							"Components": []
						}
					},
					"PowerLevelScaling": {
						"BaseLevel": 0,
						"LevelIncrement": 1,
						"MaxLevel": 0,
						"DamageAdjustment": 1,
						"DurationAdjustment": 1,
						"BounceCountAdjustment": 0,
						"ProjectileCountAdjustment": 0,
						"AccuracyAdjustment": 0,
						"PenetrationAdjustment": 0
					},
					"StatusEffectKeywordsIDs": [],
					"StatusEffectsIDs": [],
					"VisualEffects": [],
					"SelfMaterialReplacementID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
					"AttackID": "7b07ae25-2819-4e32-a025-1459b6b5543d",
					"AITargetingConditional": {
						"Conditional": {
							"Operator": 0,
							"Components": []
						},
						"Scripts": []
					},
					"AudioEventListID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000"
				}, {
					"$type": "Game.GameData.ProgressionUnlockableComponent, Assembly-CSharp"
				}
			]
		},

1.2.0:

{
			"$type": "Game.GameData.GenericAbilityGameData, Assembly-CSharp",
			"DebugName": "Figurine_Battered_Dog_Ability",
			"ID": "d413261a-1919-4924-ab10-23b3e03272b5",
			"Components": [{
					"$type": "Game.GameData.GenericAbilityComponent, Assembly-CSharp",
					"KeywordsIDs": ["ddf90f19-c9a2-4087-a1a7-a00ee46bc3dd"],
					"DisplayName": 4072,
					"Description": -1,
					"UpgradeDescriptions": [],
					"UpgradedFromID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
					"Vocalization": "NoVocalization",
					"Icon": "",
					"UsageType": "Charged",
					"UsageValue": 8,
					"AbilityClassID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
					"AbilityLevel": 0,
					"IsPassive": "false",
					"StackingRuleOverride": "Default",
					"TriggerOnHit": "false",
					"IsModal": "false",
					"ModalGroupID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
					"IsCombatOnly": "true",
					"IsNonCombatOnly": "false",
					"HideFromUI": "false",
					"HideFromCombatLog": "false",
					"UniqueSet": "None",
					"NoiseLevelID": "15743f94-1026-40b0-8e13-a667b3f66f63",
					"DurationOverride": 0,
					"OverrideEmpower": "Default",
					"ClearsOnMovement": "false",
					"CannotActivateWhileInStealth": "false",
					"CannotActivateWhileInvisible": "false",
					"ActivationPrerequisites": {
						"Conditional": {
							"Operator": 0,
							"Components": []
						}
					},
					"ApplicationPrerequisites": {
						"Conditional": {
							"Operator": 0,
							"Components": []
						}
					},
					"DeactivationPrerequisites": {
						"Conditional": {
							"Operator": 0,
							"Components": []
						}
					},
					"PowerLevelScaling": {
						"ScalingType": "ModifiersOnly",
						"BaseLevel": 0,
						"LevelIncrement": 1,
						"MaxLevel": 0,
						"DamageAdjustment": 1,
						"DurationAdjustment": 1,
						"BounceCountAdjustment": 0,
						"ProjectileCountAdjustment": 0,
						"AccuracyAdjustment": 0,
						"PenetrationAdjustment": 0
					},
					"StatusEffectKeywordsIDs": [],
					"StatusEffectsIDs": [],
					"VisualEffects": [],
					"SelfMaterialReplacementID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
					"AttackID": "7b07ae25-2819-4e32-a025-1459b6b5543d",
					"AITargetingConditional": {
						"Conditional": {
							"Operator": 0,
							"Components": []
						},
						"Scripts": []
					},
					"AudioEventListID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000"
				}, {
					"$type": "Game.GameData.ProgressionUnlockableComponent, Assembly-CSharp"
				}
			]
		}

Specifically change:

"UsageType": "Charged",

"UsageValue": 8,

to:

"UsageType": "None",

"UsageValue": 0,

(with the UsuageValue changing as appropriate).

Shouldn't be too hard for someone to mod this up and release it to the community if there is enough demand.

("NOT IT" he quickly said, BTW :lol: )

====

NOTE:::: There's a couple of other differences between the statblocks, but they're not relevant here and have to do with overall changes between 1.1.1 and 1.2.0.

SECOND NOTE:::: The Effigy Doll was already at 1 charge before 1.2.0, so that should be kept as-is if folks just want the functionality as it was in 1.1.1.

Yeah I worked that out yesterday also. It's in the abilities gamesdatabundle.

If somebody wants the edited abilities gamesdatabundle file to put in the override folder let me know.

Edited June 29, 2018 by Gary1986

JFutral · June 29, 2018

For folks who want to revert/keep figurines the way there were in 1.1.1 (and before), the relevant data is in abilities.gamedatabundle NOT in items.gamedatabundle.

<snip>

Shouldn't be too hard for someone to mod this up and release it to the community if there is enough demand.

("NOT IT" he quickly said, BTW )

====

NOTE:::: There's a couple of other differences between the statblocks, but they're not relevant here and have to do with overall changes between 1.1.1 and 1.2.0.

SECOND NOTE:::: The Effigy Doll was already at 1 charge before 1.2.0, so that should be kept as-is if folks just want the functionality as it was in 1.1.1.

I assume if I do this manually I will likely have to do it for every update afterward, too, unless a formal mod is released?

Unfortunate. I have to edit files. The other side could just not spam figurines and without changing any files files.

Ah, well.

I'll stick to 1.1.1 as long as I can, then. There are other nerfs I didn't car for in 1.2. Or maybe when I create my next PC character that doesn't have a role play that involves figurines.

Thanks for this, all the same,

Joe

omgFIREBALLS · June 30, 2018

Insolentius might have been a bit heavy with their post, but it's correct. Challenge should come from a properly tuned game. I'm tired of these "self control" and "purposely gimp yourself" posts. If you can't beat the game without figurine spam, lower the difficulty. If that reasoning doesn't sit right with you, I'm as happy to subtly accuse you of lacking virtues as the people droning on about self control seem to be.

If people want to spam figurines they should be able too. Why are you telling people how they should play their single player game? If people can't control themselves from figurine spam they shouldn't get the developers to change it so it changes it for everybody.

If people want to decimate Neketaka with a single casting of Chill Fog they should be able to!!!!1

It's like you quoted my post without reading it. Just repeating the same drivel. I'll go ahead and give Insolentius a like now.

Gary1986 · June 30, 2018

Insolentius might have been a bit heavy with their post, but it's correct. Challenge should come from a properly tuned game. I'm tired of these "self control" and "purposely gimp yourself" posts. If you can't beat the game without figurine spam, lower the difficulty. If that reasoning doesn't sit right with you, I'm as happy to subtly accuse you of lacking virtues as the people droning on about self control seem to be.
If people want to spam figurines they should be able too. Why are you telling people how they should play their single player game? If people can't control themselves from figurine spam they shouldn't get the developers to change it so it changes it for everybody.
If people want to decimate Neketaka with a single casting of Chill Fog they should be able to!!!!1

It's like you quoted my post without reading it. Just repeating the same drivel. I'll go ahead and give Insolentius a like now.

Well it looks like it touched a nerve, so I'll keep saying it because it's true. Nice way of of making it look like I think people should be able to do everything and anything. We are on about figurines, not destroying the main city with a single spell (something that was we was never able to do in the beginning). Those two examples are incomparable.

bigjenk78 · June 30, 2018

Just copy and paste the figurines from the items gamesdatabundle file into a new gamesdatabundle file (before you installed the beta) and put it in the override folder. I've done just that and have the beta installed now and I don't have charges on my figurines.

A shame this is even necessary. My current favorite PC is a devoted/barbarian. The figurine is the closest I could come to an animal companion without being a ranger. Don't get me wrong. I love rangers, one of my three favorite classes actually. I just wanted a melee specialist with an animal companion this time. I didn't even want companion advantages. So the jade tiger figurine has been a great option for me.

Thanks,

Joe

You mean to have all the benefits of a ranger class specced heavily into a pet, so essentially getting a free 3rd multi class and you dont see the issue with that and balancing?

There is literally a subspec of ranger about being in melee with your pet, what you mean to say is you want that with none of the drawbacks which is what figurines were. They definitely needed some sort of balancing, though im not 100% sold on this being it instead of weaker summons.

omgFIREBALLS · June 30, 2018

I'm sure you feel real good about yourself, but if your goal is to convince the developers to change it back you're not going to accomplish it by repeating your opening post no matter what anyone replies, though maybe you can get your thread locked. Then you can carry on feeling how right you are and how much truth you're preaching while your precious figurines remain nerfed.

Figurine spam is an imbalance, as would a WoMD Chill Fog be. Imbalances should be fixed. Obsidian has an obligation to make an effort at game balance until each difficulty is within reasonable bounds of the design intent. When you beat PotD for the first time it should give you the feeling of having done everything within your power to accomplish that. Some solutions are currently way too simple, and this is one of them.

Zap Gun For Hire · June 30, 2018

Look, this is really simple.

Let's say that the devs make a change that one really doesn't like.

Step one is to talk about it on the forums. If enough people agree, the devs might change it back, or dial it back a bit. It's happened before and it'll happen again.

So Step Two is: See if the devs will change things back or not.

But if they don't, or it doesn't look like it'll happen, there's Step Three: Mod it yourself for your home game.

I've got a decent sized list of things that slightly irk me in the game. So I've made a bunch of 'home mods' rectifying it. Sure, some things are easier to mod than others. And some things can't be modded yet.

But when it comes right down to it: Don't like a change that Obsidian has made? Change it back on your home game and move on with your time. That's one of the reasons the modding system has been greatly enhanced, after all. So folks who don't like something can change it.

pstone · June 30, 2018

I really wish they would have found another way. Previously, i was pretty excited to find new figurines, now its just "meh" - won't use them anyway (the old "save them for difficult fight" problem)

omgFIREBALLS · June 30, 2018

I really wish they would have found another way. Previously, i was pretty excited to find new figurines, now its just "meh" - won't use them anyway (the old "save them for difficult fight" problem)

I agree here. Charged items always feel like you have to save them for Ragnarok, and even when Ragnarok happens you suspect there will be a Greater Ragnarok in a DLC so you still don't use them. My thoughts for a nerf were more along like 1 figurine use per encounter in total or somesuch.

JFutral · June 30, 2018

Just copy and paste the figurines from the items gamesdatabundle file into a new gamesdatabundle file (before you installed the beta) and put it in the override folder. I've done just that and have the beta installed now and I don't have charges on my figurines.

A shame this is even necessary. My current favorite PC is a devoted/barbarian. The figurine is the closest I could come to an animal companion without being a ranger. Don't get me wrong. I love rangers, one of my three favorite classes actually. I just wanted a melee specialist with an animal companion this time. I didn't even want companion advantages. So the jade tiger figurine has been a great option for me.

Thanks,

Joe

You mean to have all the benefits of a ranger class specced heavily into a pet, so essentially getting a free 3rd multi class and you dont see the issue with that and balancing?

There is literally a subspec of ranger about being in melee with your pet, what you mean to say is you want that with none of the drawbacks which is what figurines were. They definitely needed some sort of balancing, though im not 100% sold on this being it instead of weaker summons.

I wasn't on about balancing. I am on about role playing a character I created, based on an old TT game I played many years ago with friends, who had an animal companion. He was a class that was not anything like a PoE ranger, but had an animal companion. I enjoy(ed) the (out of the box) RPG capacity of this game. So now to do something I could even do in PoE 1, I have to mod the game. I gave up modding and tweaking stuff on my own years ago back when that was something I enjoyed. That's not what I pay for or play for any more.

Joe

omgFIREBALLS · July 2, 2018

It's a shame we spent two pages debating whether Obsidian should be balancing the game. I wasn't advocating this specific nerf, I just feel some kind of nerf is in order and that Obsidian should indeed be balancing their game. If we can move past that topic we could instead perhaps talk about the right way of doing it, for example something that doesn't involve charges so that players like JFutral can have their pseudo-companion.

This could be:

- A cap on the amount of figurines able to be used during a single encounter

- Diminishing summoned creature PL with each subsequent figurine summon in a single encounter

- Inability to have several figurine summons active simultaneously

Gfted1 · July 2, 2018

Are figurines 1/per rest items?

omgFIREBALLS · July 2, 2018

Currently, yes, but since "per rest" is a fairly meaningless restriction in Deadfire they're also getting charges.

JFutral · July 2, 2018

Are figurines 1/per rest items?

They are, so the idea of "spamming" them is totally foreign to me. And if someone is spamming Rests so they can use them in each fight, then there are other issues, not with figurines (although I think any player has the right to spam rests, too, if they want. That doesn't affect how I play.)

In PoE 1, it also used to be restricted to one summons at a time per ~~player~~ character, as well, as with other summons. So, if this is a change in PoE2, then can we just go back to PoE 1 rules and call it a day?

Joe

Edited July 2, 2018 by JFutral

Gfted1 · July 2, 2018

Currently, yes, but since "per rest" is a fairly meaningless restriction in Deadfire they're also getting charges.

Have any other "per rest" abilities or items been given charges?

They are, so the idea of "spamming" them is totally foreign to me. And if someone is spamming Rests so they can use them in each fight, then there are other issues, not with figurines (although I think any player has the right to spam rests, too, if they want. That doesn't affect how I play.)

In PoE 1, it also used to be restricted to one summons at a time per ~~player~~ character, as well, as with other summons. So, if this is a change in PoE2, then can we just go back to PoE 1 rules and call it a day?

Joe

Do they persist through Rest? The link I provided was a little sketchy. Some figurines show a "duration" (ie: 20 sec for the spider) while others do not. Unless noted, do they persist until killed?

omgFIREBALLS · July 2, 2018

Pretty damn sure they despawn when combat ends even if they are fresh out of the box and healthy as a crossfitting vegan. Can't recall anything else getting charges.

The reason per rest is so meaningless is because resting is so easy in Deadfire. You just give one party member any kind of food item, of which you can have hundreds from just looting everything in sight. In PoE1 you technically could spam per rest but you'd have to double back to an inn when you ran out of camping supplies.

You certainly could address the whole per rest spam circus by doing something about rest spam, but what would you do? It's a very large undertaking. There's also an approach to the game that involves stacking one-time bonuses that fade when you rest, and never resting. Both are bizarre

JFutral · July 2, 2018

Pretty damn sure they despawn when combat ends even if they are fresh out of the box and healthy as a crossfitting vegan. Can't recall anything else getting charges.

The reason per rest is so meaningless is because resting is so easy in Deadfire. You just give one party member any kind of food item, of which you can have hundreds from just looting everything in sight. In PoE1 you technically could spam per rest but you'd have to double back to an inn when you ran out of camping supplies.

You certainly could address the whole per rest spam circus by doing something about rest spam, but what would you do? It's a very large undertaking. There's also an approach to the game that involves stacking one-time bonuses that fade when you rest, and never resting. Both are bizarre

Obsidian also provided other reasons to rest, like this whole injury mechanic. At least in PoE1 I could turn it off. But I get it. Everything affects everything, which is a whole other discussion, as in i like where the PoE1 mechanic ended up and hate that so much had to change for PoE2, no doubt multiclassing played a large role.

Charges for figurines just seems so arbitrary (eta: as in it wasn't broken in PoE1, why is it broken now?). Although I don't know if you can sell them and buy them back recharged or if they disappear after charges are expended. If there is a way to recharge them, though, that seems to defeat the purpose.

Meh. I'll just keep v1.1.1. until I can't.

Joe

Edited July 2, 2018 by JFutral

Gfted1 · July 2, 2018

Huh, kooky. I can only assume Obs had some telemetrics showing that players were severely abusing Rest spam for the sole purpose of chain summoning all their figurines at once, for approximately 30-45 seconds at a time. :shrugz:

omgFIREBALLS · July 2, 2018

That can be more than enough to ensure victory

@JFutral: Injuries are a poor limitation to the no-rest tactic, and one big reason is spelled Luminous Adra Potion. It's +2 skills until rest for everyone which means you're not likely gonna get an injury from a failed scripted skill check or a trap you couldn't disarm. Also, the potion itself heals injuries without requiring rest. And you can simply buy all its components, even the dust if you know where to look.

As has been said in the thread about this very tactic is the game shouldn't be about spam resting or never resting, but about occasional resting. Currently that is the least rewarding tactic, though it's not without merit if you consider things like using semi-rare food that you couldn't afford to spam if you played spam rest, yet you have access to per rest abilities without knowing you're never gonna see them again unless you want to lose your stacked rare world bonuses.

If we could somehow make "occasional resting" the optimal way to play, I don't think this figurine nerf would be needed. But how would you do it? Bring back fatigue to **** over no rest and put timers galore on quests to **** over spam rest?

Aranduin · July 2, 2018

I think the fatigue return can fix the "no rest problem". Or force to sleep for recharge items

For solo play the nerf in Figurines is a really hard blow specially in begin game or some hard fights.

Edited July 2, 2018 by Aranduin

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