Is dexterity bonus for action speed bugged or is this how it is supposed to be

[antman45454]

I have 21 dex and should give 33% bonus to action speed it says on the tooltip when i hover over it (the stat dex)

 

 

When i check what bonus it passes on to my weapons eg action and recovery times it is only showing a 25% bonus?

 

What is going on here is this a bug?

[Kriber22]

Yeah, I noticed this as well. I saw someone in here posting about diminishing returns on recovery, but I never could figure out if this was what they were talking about.

[wRAR]

Because action speed and recovery time are different stats?

1/1.33=0.75

[AndreaColombo]

Because action speed and recovery time are different stats?

 

I disagree. Action speed should speed up recovery by the same amount. If the tooltip says I move 33% faster, then I should also recover 33% faster; there is nothing in the game suggesting that recovery should be benefiting less from the bonus than anything else.

 

The only reason is that the game has unnecessarily byzantine formulas.

[Myztik]

It was a rhetorical question.

[antman45454]

so is it a bug or it working correctly?

 

Seems like a pretty stupid rule to implement that your stats dont actually work the way they say they do??

 

But Ive certainly seen worse from obsidian

Edited June 11, 2018 by antman45454

[George_Truman]

Should 100% increased action speed mean zero recovery, or half recovery? What about 150% increased action speed? Should it cause negative recovery? Its like that guy already said, 1/1.33=.75 and 1/.75=1.33

Edited June 11, 2018 by George_Truman

[antman45454]

what?

 

In English please

[George_Truman]

100% action increase means twice as fast, right? So in terms of recovery speed it should yield -50% recovery, not -100%. Same with 33% increased action speed. It won't yield -33% recovery, it will instead divide your normal recovery by 1.33. That means 1/1.33=.75 original recovery, which is -25% recovery time.

Edited June 11, 2018 by George_Truman

[Seroster01]

All of your questions are answered here: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/98679-mechanics-attack-speed-recovery-time-reload-time/

 

The short answer?  Everything works the way it's supposed to, and almost every description is technically correct.  But none of the descriptions mean what you think they mean on paper.  The formulas as they exist function in different ways than you expect, and on top of that are structured to to prevent 0/negative results for any of them.

[Seroster01]

100% action increase means twice as fast, right? So in terms of recovery speed it should yield -50% recovery, not -100%. Same with 33% increased action speed. It won't yield -33% recovery, it will instead divide your normal recovery by 1.33. That means 1/1.33=.75 original recovery, which is -25% recovery time.

 

You've hit upon the correct formula.  Which is why the tooltips for attack/recovery speed when you view your weapons is never the #s they give in their base descriptions.  About the only thing that seems to be 1:1 is armor reducing recovery time, -35% recovery time from your armor is always listed as that in the tooltip.  But then you get into the Armored Grace effect and things get squirrely again. 

 

Ultimately it's like I said, things function the way they are supposed to.  But the descriptions don't reflect the actual things in the attack speed/recovery tooltips because of the formulas involved.

[Zoso der Goldene]

 

100% action increase means twice as fast, right? So in terms of recovery speed it should yield -50% recovery, not -100%. Same with 33% increased action speed. It won't yield -33% recovery, it will instead divide your normal recovery by 1.33. That means 1/1.33=.75 original recovery, which is -25% recovery time.

 

You've hit upon the correct formula.  Which is why the tooltips for attack/recovery speed when you view your weapons is never the #s they give in their base descriptions.  About the only thing that seems to be 1:1 is armor reducing recovery time, -35% recovery time from your armor is always listed as that in the tooltip.  But then you get into the Armored Grace effect and things get squirrely again. 

 

Ultimately it's like I said, things function the way they are supposed to.  But the descriptions don't reflect the actual things in the attack speed/recovery tooltips because of the formulas involved.

 

It's time versus speed (as wRAR already pointed out above), so the tooltips are correct, I think. 

Tooltips also show the correct labels, so I don't see a problem.

Edited June 12, 2018 by Zoso der Goldene

[wRAR]

Good.

[KaiG]

 

Because action speed and recovery time are different stats?

 

 

I disagree. Action speed should speed up recovery by the same amount. If the tooltip says I move 33% faster, then I should also recover 33% faster; there is nothing in the game suggesting that recovery should be benefiting less from the bonus than anything else.

 

The only reason is that the game has unnecessarily byzantine formulas.

That makes no sense. You do recover 33% faster. Speed and time are different. A 33% increase in speed leads to a 25% reduction in time taken, that's just maths.

[AndreaColombo]

Point well taken.

[fortuntek]

Great explanation guys.

 

I keep wondering about this, but this is the first time I've seen a clear answer. It seems players with questions are forced to sweep the forums until they stumble on an answer, as it's far beyond the scope of any external website explanation of mechanics that I've seen.

 

For that reason I hope they simply clarify the in-game tooltips (i.e. in recovery tooltip: "-25% [from +33% action speed (DEX)]", maybe with hyperlinks to action speed and recovery speed as separate concepts.)

 

Also, please add a total for the overall effect of multiple percentage multipliers while you're at it

 

I.e., Base 10 (+25%, +10%, -15%) = x% Net TOTAL effect = y total (remember, these effects are often multiplicative not additive, meaning they have diminishing returns). Deadfire has this sort of thing everywhere. The combat log I think is the exception if I recall correctly, but not sure without going back to check