Ranged Weapons - A Testing thread

[1TTFFSSE]

Please pin if you find this useful enough.

 

Methodology:

 

1.) no test or test method is perfect, we just try to make the conditions of consistent across each tested weapon and maybe also have the test subject have appropriate stat distribution and buffs to mimic an average tough enemy we would encounter in game at the said level.

 

2.) The parameters of the test of ranged weapons:

 

a.) I am level 10 currently so mid game

b.) my "attack dummy" was Konstanten in Legendary Patinated Plate and some regeneration items. Full stats were 237 health, 80 deflection, 14 slash, 10 crush, 14 pierce ar, so he is no pushover considering out of combat health regeneration kicks in quite fast if the target is not damaged. his ar rating are good too so this favors higher penetration weapons as would be normal in potd. 

c.) all weapons tested were upgraded to legendary and taking all possible damage boost buffs with the upgrades. When dual wielding I got the talent to increase recovery and when two-handed the damage boost to two-handed weapons. 

d.) my toon has +1 pen from sacrificing devil of courac and another +1 pen to weapons from a cipher talent. 22 per and 20 dex

e.) test were done in 1.1 patch

f.) most importantly for this test dummy (konstanten) had to die under 3 minutes of auto attacking him even despite out of combat health recovery - that was sort of the measurement of "good" dps from a weapon in this test - which weapons were fast enough/ or had enough burst to puncture this health regeneration out of real combat. Naturally, I used 0% armor on myself and also have a 20 dex character doing this to increase attack rate as much as possible. 

g.)finally tests were done 3 times for each of 1.) pure auto-attack, 2/) with modal active, and 3.) finally with 1 burst ability thrown in every 1:30 (min) to see if a burst ability would help burst down the target and by how much. In my case it was barbaric blow. 

 

3.) I tested all uniques except wands here are the findings:

 

Two -Handed Weapons

 

Hunting Bow 

Aamiina's Legacy

no modal active - failed, failed, failed - too low penetration results in too little damage - dummy regenearated through attacks

fast attack modal active - 1:23,  1:00,  1:30 -  as long as you can hit with the accuracy debuff with fast modal active you get the kill in those times

with burst ability in the mix with fast modal active: 1,28, 1,44, 1:30 - improves the chance of a successful kill but actual dps is rng based on crit/hit

overall assessment: ok-ish but suffers from low penetration. If you have a class like devoted or use potions to increase penetration and accuracy this could be an excellent weapon, but at the same time you could be using a weapon with better base performance. 

 

 

War Bows

(modal not used as it is not a dps increase)

 

Frost Seeker

all test - failed the three minute test is a fail, but it would consistently down the target at about 5min mark - dps is consistent but a tad slow to burst the target down

with burst ability: brings a consistent kill closer down to 3 mins but still fails. dps output is better than Dragon's Dowry with Dragon's modal on. on the Arquebus the target would heal through each attack with its accuracy modal on because health regen kicks in before the next attack, on Frost-seeker, the target would surely die eventually but it is slow. 

 

Saint Omakus

fail (both tests) - normal dps output less than Frost Seeker. But can have nice burst windows on crit hits (instant recovery). On crit builds could possibly pass the test but it would be a matter of rng luck still. On non crit normal builds less dps than Frost Seeker.

 

Veilpiercer

lowest dps from the 3 war bows tested so fail

 

 

Crossbows and Heavy Crossbows

 

(no modal used)

 

Fleetbreaker

normal : 0:40,  0:40s , 0:40

with burst ability:  about 30sec kill  - consistent and deadly, maybe the best acquirable ranged weapon in the game given the overall performance, pros and cons

 

Spearcaster

normal: 1:25, 1:25, 1:30 (longer because of slow reload time lets target regenerate health a bit too much)

with burst ability mixed in: 0:13 , 0:15, 0:15 - sick burst - 1 burst ability pushed this to an extremely fast kill

 

 

Rods:

they are worse than Warbows unfortunately in this test

 

 

Arquebus

Dragon's Dowry

normal: 2:55*, fail, 2:05 - decent chance to kill but can take time until hits/ crits are lined up to push health that is why the long time over 2 min to kill target. otherwise target regenerates too much

accuracy modal: fail, - hits consistently every time, but too slow attack speed so "not enough dps" and target regenerates health

no modal with burst ability: 0:35 , 0:15 , 0:14 - mixing in a burst ability here results in a consistent fast kill on this weapon

 

 

The Red Hand (op and not acquirable)

no modal : 0:30, 0:50 * , 0:30   no misses is a 30 sec kill, one miss or two is at 50sec

accuracy modal : 0:47, 0:50 - consistent kill but a but longer over 50s because of slower reload

with burst ability: 0:14 , 0:06, 0:15

Best ranged weapon probably but not acquirable? the 0:06 sec burst was with crits obviously- But Fleetbreaker is close except it's burst is definitely worse than this one's. Also its double attack does not work with active abilities only on auto-attacks. 

 

 

Dual-Wielded Weapons

 

Pistols

Scordeo's + Thundercrack

normal: 1:15, 0:50s, 0:55  

fast modal: fail, 1:10, 1:01 - failed once because was too inconsistent in terms of accuracy when fast

with burst ability: 0.40s, 0,13, 0.21

Overall a nice combo as it has better burst thanks to ability synergy and dual wielding than Fleetbreaker but slightly lower normal dps. The reason is an active ability attack like say Barbaric Blow or any rogue ability attack would hit with both pistols when dual wielding to you have a bigger burst when using an active ability. 

 

 

Blunderbussi:

 

I tested all the unique ones upgraded to Legendary but none had enough Penetration to pass this test no matter what I tried

 

 

Scepters:

 

Amoliorra + Keybreaker

normal: 1.09, 0,49, 0,47

with modal active: 0,34, 1,05, 0,50

with burst ability: 0,38 0,33, 0,28

Overall assessment: another good choice, overall very balanced attack numbers on dual scepters just slightly less than on Fleetbeaker. But my target also had 4 less crush Ar so keep that in mind. 

 

 

Overall Ranking of single-target ranged weapons if I care to make a ranged weapon rankings list:

 

1.) The Red Hand (Arquebus)

2 -3 (tied or close).) Fleetbreaker (Crossbow),  Scordeo's + Thundercrack (dual pistols) ,  Fleetbreaker has better normal dps, the dual Pistols have better burst and synergy with abilities. 

4.) Amoliorra + Keybreaker (dual scepters)

5.) Spearcaster (Heavy Crossbow), or  Aamiina's Legacy (Hunting Bow) *but only if you have very high natural base penetration for the Hunting Bow and Ring of the Marksman - see updated numbers bellow with that ring on. 

 

This is a pure dps list I would say heavily favoring auto attacks with a few burst abilities mixed in. If you have abilities that benefit from aoe weapon attacks you may want to look at a different list. 

 

 

Coolest Ranged Weapons by animation/ look in my opinion:

 

1.) The Red Hand (double blast shotgun)

2.) Scordeo's+Thundercrack  pistols (constant smoke+lightning all around you)

3.) Veilpiercer (Warbow) - a better spirit bow than Frost Seeeker by it's look

4.) Hand Mortar+ Fire in the Hole (Blunderbi) - mini hand cannons

 

 

EDIT / Update

 

I put on the Ring of the Marksman (+4 ranged accuracy, +1 ranged pen) and got these values on some of the better performers

 

Dual Pistols (Scoreo's + Thundercrack)

no modal - 37s, 30s, 1:02

fast modal: 1:05, 25s, 29s

 

Hunting Bow (Aamiina's Legacy)

No modal - 55s, 57s, 1:05

fast modal: 30s, 30s, 49s

 

Fleetbreaker (Crossbow)

35s, 34s, 32s

 

The Red Hand 

18s, 19s 18s

 

Warbows

They still blow and fail

 

Ring of the marksman makes the unique Hunting Bow (Aamiina's Legacy) a tier 1 wanged weapon as well especialy because it does either pierce or crush damage. 

Edited June 8, 2018 by 1TTFFSSE

[QuiteGoneJin]

The Red Hand sounds cool, not acquirable? 

[1TTFFSSE]

The Red Hand sounds cool, not acquirable? 

No one has found it in game yet and devs said it may have been "cut" content but it is still in the files. 

 

Anyways consensus in terms of best melee was always dual sabers because that was kind of no brainer but in terms of the ranged weapons options it was kind of "hearsay" so I did these tests.  

 

Anyways fully upgraded Fleetbreaker Crossbow is a hell of a weapon. 

[Kaylon]

Devil of Caroc's penetration bonus works only from stealth so it does nothing in your test...

 

Also I think the highest AR in potd is 15, but for me testing against such high armor isn't very representative. In fights against such targets you have to use potions or debuffs. Even without testing I could have said that crossbows, arquebuses and arbalests were the best against such armor because the others can't fully penetrate.

 

For me the dps analysis should be done without armor and after that you have to give yourself the ways to adapt to the high armor. A legendary hunting bow has only 10 pen but you can add the ring of the marksman and a combination between a devoted + other class having a tenacious buff - which can get you to 15 pen.

[1TTFFSSE]

Devil of Caroc's penetration bonus works only from stealth so it does nothing in your test...

 

Also I think the highest AR in potd is 15, but for me testing against such high armor isn't very representative. In fights against such targets you have to use potions or debuffs. Even without testing I could have said that crossbows, arquebuses and arbalests were the best against such armor because the others can't fully penetrate.

 

For me the dps analysis should be done without armor and after that you have to give yourself the ways to adapt to the high armor. A legendary hunting bow has only 10 pen but you can add the ring of the marksman and a combination between a devoted + other class having a tenacious buff - which can get you to 15 pen.

There is always overpenetration by the way. It is always a balance of penetration and weapon speed and Crossbows and dual pistols are really strong there with the exception of the unique Arquebus which is not acquirable. I always liked hunting bows (with modal on) if you have high base penatration

 

I put the Marksman ring on and did a few tests with the best achievers and here is what I got:

 

Dual Pistols (Scoreo's + Thundercrack)

no modal - 37s, 30s, 1:02

fast modal: 1:05, 25s, 29s

 

Hunting Bow (Aamiina's Legacy)

No modal - 55s, 57s, 1:05

fast modal: 30s, 30s, 49s

 

Fleetbreaker (Crossbow)

35s, 34s, 32s

 

The Red Hand 

18s, 19s 18s

 

Warbows

They still blow

 

That ring brings the hunting bow potentially to the level of the dual-pistols. The Fleetbreaker crossbow is a model of consistency though because it always hits with all its accuracy buffs. 

Edited June 8, 2018 by 1TTFFSSE

[Kaylon]

I checked more in depth the potential of all ranged weapons for single target dps and here's the top 3:

1. The Red Hand

2. Aamiina's Legacy (with Rapid Shot)

3. Spearcaster

[Esajin]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think out of combat regen kicks in after a set time without taking damage? This should favor faster attacls (eg: dual pistols, attack speed modal).

 

80 deflection is a bit low to reflect actual POTD deflection: enemies have between 90 and 110 on average at high level. This skews the analysis towards weapons that have low penetration and non-blunted crits. I'm pretty sure that's why you see crossbows and hunting bows so high.

 

Side note, the highest armor figure I've seen on POTD is 18 slash on Eoten Dwellers in Nemnok's cave (at level 17, and they're 18 so it's their natural armor). Things like Flame Nagas or Elder Flame Bats have 14 base armor so your test is solid on that side. 

 

On a fun note, I've attempted to do this with melee weapons and the Magistrate Cudgel singlehanded always seemed to win this competition for me for some reason, with kills taking only a couple seconds at best. Then I remembered I was always 1 level higher than my followers

Edited June 11, 2018 by Esajin

[mant2si]

You can also test Scoreo's  + Modwyr. Modwyr will give you +20%  (fire/cold) to all  Scoreo's attack and you should receive max Scoreo's  bonus faster

[Climhazzard]

Glad to see scepters made the list at least, I'm assuming their high penetration rating might bring them up against specific targets..   but I wish there was a scepter with dps oriented stats like a lash or action speed bonus.  For the sake of my transcendent.  Or maybe just something that synergizes with Monks beyond just the modal.

[Lampros]

This is a fascinating test: Now how much of its results has been obsoleted by subsequent patches?

 

A few additional points:

 

I think you should have at least tested also with a Devoted character - and possibly even with penetration food buff - to see how the performance changes when the penetration gap is far less relevant.

 

Still, I am not sure isolated tests such as this can capture what actually occurs in a real DPS setting. In my experience in terms of testing Red Hand Ranger/Rogue character versus Aanima's Legacy Ranger/Devoted character through an entire PotD run, the Aamina's Legacy character did about 15 percent more consistently.

 

I think there were several factors that led to this result - something that tests such as yours cannot fully capture or predict:

 

1. I had +2 penetration from Devoted and +2 penetration from food - which significantly boosted the only weakness that plagued Aamina's Legacy.

 

2. Priest and Chanter buffs probably helped Aamina's Legacy more in the aggregate. In particular, I am certain that the fire lash chant helped Aamina's Legacy a lot more, because any lashes will help the weapon that fires more often ceteris paribus.

 

3. The extra range of Aamina's Legacy clearly helped in many cases. I noticed that the Aamina's Legacy user could literally sit still at the same spot and not move at all throughout the entire fight in most fights. In contrast, the shorter range of Red Hand meant that its user had to re-position quite often to get in range. It's obvious but a seemingly neglected point in this forum that range matters in firefights.

 

Anyways, this was a very useful and interesting thread. It makes me want to try both the unique crossbow and arbalest now - something which I was not inclined to do at all.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Lampros

[Kaylon]

If you pick the best options for each weapon then the Red Hand comes on top mostly because of the damage buff (and that's math, not testing). But of course that doesn't take in account the fact that you move or die more often which can cripple your final dps.

 

PS. The lash doesn't help a faster weapon more than a slow one if they have the same base dps.

PPS. It seems the enchantments have been tweeked and some of them aren't exclussive anymore - now you can have both lashes on the Essence Interrupter which means it can surpass the damage from Aamiina's Legacy.

[Lampros]

If you pick the best options for each weapon then the Red Hand comes on top mostly because of the damage buff (and that's math, not testing). But of course that doesn't take in account the fact that you move or die more often which can cripple your final dps.

 

PS. The lash doesn't help a faster weapon more than a slow one if they have the same base dps.

PPS. It seems the enchantments have been tweeked and some of them aren't exclussive anymore - now you can have both lashes on the Essence Interrupter which means it can surpass the damage from Aamiina's Legacy.

 

Hmm, my bad on the lash then.

 

As for the Essence Interruptor, I really do not like the weapon for two reasons for I mentioned elsewhere. First, the enemy resurrection mechanism is a monumental annoyance, and it almost forces you to spend 2 Adra Bans to make the resurrected enemies friendly ASAP. That's a lot of resources - and opportunity cost - especially at that stage. Second, there is apparently a bug that makes mobs not drop loot if you land a critical hit on them. So you need to switch weapons for combats where enemies drop unique gear or other desirables. And that's a level of micro-management I do not want to deal with.

 

Overall, frankly I'd judge this weapon something like C-tier on the basis of those two negatives. I know other people may tolerate those issues better.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Lampros