%Chance to convert Hit to Graze wrong?

[fortuntek]

Patch 1.1

Can anyone explain how this works? For example, the upgraded version of Exalted Charge gives 10% chance to convert Hits to Grazes. My understanding was that:

 

From the in-game combat tips:

• Less than or equal to 30 = Miss
• 31 - 50 = Graze
• 51 - 100 = Hit
• Greater than 100 = Crit

 

So my question is, should 10% conversion of hit to graze make the roll 31-60 for graze? Or is it a separate 10% chance calculated after every hit and if 'successful,' downgraded?

 

I was doing some testing to see if Kaz (the dog pet which gives 5% hit to graze) would stack with Exalted Charge. Interestingly, the in-game combat tip is wrong, first of all. A roll of 30 is a graze (not a Miss), a roll of 50 is a hit (not a Graze), and -- I'm guessing -- a roll of 100 is a Crit. Minor thing, but thought I'd point it out.

 

 

The reason this is posted in General and not Technical Support is because I suspect I was wrong about 'shifting' the roll calculation. Can anyone confirm this? Because I've seen rolls in the 70-90 range get converted to grazes with the [Exalted Charge] indicator next to it.

 

 

Note: All testing was done with attacks where the accuracy was exactly matching deflection, and with characters who don't have abilities that affect attack resolution (no Confident Aim, etc)

[theBalthazar]

Like Tyranny... Need information on the character sheet :

 

Miss to graze : x %

Graze to hit : x %

Hit to crit : x %

 

would be cool. For example, I don't know if 30 % hit to crit stack of barbaric blow with the berserker. Or stack with Disciplined strike.

 

 

Done !

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/102018-see-general-transformation-miss-graze-hit-crit/

Edited June 8, 2018 by theBalthazar

[Boeroer]

 Or is it a separate 10% chance calculated after every hit and if 'successful,' downgraded?

This is correct.

 

The other solution would lead to an addition of conversion chances - so for example if you'd have 10% conversion from one soure and 30% from another it would be 40%. But in PoE it works like you described in the quote above. This means that chances are mutiplicative with each other. That means that the more of them you stack the less meaningful the individual conversion gets. 10% conversion and 30% conversion, rolled one after another leads to 37% this way, not 40%. It also means you can never reach 100% just by stacking a lot of the same conversions.

 

All conversions (hit to graze, hit to crit and whatnot) work this way.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Boeroer

[theBalthazar]

So it is extremely important to have the true numbers.

 

10 % + 30 % = people will immediately believe this is 40 %.

[Boeroer]

would be cool. For example, I don't know if 30 % hit to crit stack of barbaric blow with the berserker. Or stack with Disciplined strike.

They kind of stack - they just don't get added like 30% + 25% = 55%.

 

THey get rolled one after another until one triggers or every conversion was rolled to no avail. This lead to an overall chance of conversion of 47.5%.

[Boeroer]

So it is extremely important to have the true numbers.

 

10 % + 30 % = people will immediately believe this is 40 %.

I agree - all people think it works this way but it's not. THat's the reason why in beta1 you could stack Paralyzed (50%) + Disciplined Strikes (50%) and still see that hits did not get converted to crits all the time - because the opverall chance was 75%, not 100%.

 

Some UI information about your ("stacked") conversions would be really nice. 

[Abbzug]

Going from a 30% chance to convert hits to grazes to a 40% chance is a 14% reduction in hits taken. While going from 30% to 37% is a 10% reduction in hits taken. It's goofy on the surface, but at least this way every source of conversion behaves consistently. It doesn't seem fair to me that any conversion should be more powerful for someone that already has some.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Abbzug

[theBalthazar]

Imagine all the 5 % of hit to crit.

 

2.5 % true real chance of more critic. (Hit : 1/2 on the palette 50-100)

 

+ that phenomenon... : p

 

That's validate me 5 % is a joke twice for uncanny luck and zealous aura.

Edited June 8, 2018 by theBalthazar

[Boeroer]

Correct. 5% hit to crit  is neglectable if you pair it with other sources like 30% and 25%. In the end the 5% just add 2.6% (in this case). Or when you attack a paralyzed target it would only add 2.5%. 

 

The numbers on some of those abilites are too low. 

[fortuntek]

Thanks guys, that's exactly what I wanted to know. And actually I think it's an alright system, but I agree that it should be documented better for the player (much like other effects sometimes are... emphasis on the "sometimes"

 

Aaaaaand I'm not too worried about the documentation error for what counts as a graze/hit/crit roll seeing as it's only off by 1 though I'm sure someone here can/will throw a tantrum about it