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I wouldn't really call Maia's and Xoti's interpretation of being dutiful a positive trait.

That depends with where you stand with RDC/Rauatai and religion.

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I wouldn't really call Maia's and Xoti's interpretation of being dutiful a positive trait.

 

Nor Pallegina's. She doesn't even have an issue with the whole slavery thing.

 

She says "no way VTC would do that kind of thing".

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Nor Pallegina's. She doesn't even have an issue with the whole slavery thing.

She's dutiful to her country, just like Maia to hers and Xoti to her god. They may be dutiful to a fault, but still, generally that is viewed as a good trait, especially for soldiers.

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The whole approval system could have been scrapped for something simplier and with more dialogue for companions. It's an example of unnecessary complicated mechanic created for a completely trivial thing like flavor party banter.

Yea, I'd rather companions had predetermined/fixed opinions about other companions and dialogues. Like it was in BG2, for example. Never liked approval systems, they encourage playing as a psychotic "yes-man" with no backbone if you want to have good relationships with everybody.

 

Hell yeah. Either you end up messing up your character's personality, doing a ton of metagaming, or you just have to live with certain characters hating you, even when it doesn't make sense because you can never defend/explain yourself. I guess there's a reason DAO ended up making it self defeating with the feast day gifts.

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She says "no way VTC would do that kind of thing".

Yea, officially VTC is against slavers, Castol can get a lot of flak for that when accused at the trial.

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Nor Pallegina's. She doesn't even have an issue with the whole slavery thing.

She's dutiful to her country, just like Maia to hers and Xoti to her god. They may be dutiful to a fault, but still, generally that is viewed as a good trait, especially for soldiers.

 

I'm not sure we are supposed to see it as an exclusively good trait in Eora (I never do but that's besides the point, haha). We have the whole theme of gods that think kith should do as told versus Eothas thinking kith should find their own way, and I see it as a micro version of it, same as the choice to support the RDC or VTC in Deadfire as opposed to letting the Huana find their own way, and in Aloth's case it does also contradict not only some stuff he says (like that he doesn't trust the RDC), but also some of his principles as both anti tradition/pro autonomy do suggest a level of questioning authority. 

 

 

 

I wouldn't really call Maia's and Xoti's interpretation of being dutiful a positive trait.

 

Nor Pallegina's. She doesn't even have an issue with the whole slavery thing.

 

She says "no way VTC would do that kind of thing".

 

Does she? I must have missed that. But she didn't say anything when it becomes evident they were involved, or did I miss that too? Certainly it has no consequences for her devotion to her cause.


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Nor Pallegina's. She doesn't even have an issue with the whole slavery thing.

She's dutiful to her country, just like Maia to hers and Xoti to her god. They may be dutiful to a fault, but still, generally that is viewed as a good trait, especially for soldiers.

 

I'm not sure we are supposed to see it as an exclusively good trait in Eora

I was thinking about the real world considerations of good traits, not Eora. I don't think Eorans even know what a feminist is, lol, they just live with it - women in command everywhere for gods know how long.

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Nor Pallegina's. She doesn't even have an issue with the whole slavery thing.

She's dutiful to her country, just like Maia to hers and Xoti to her god. They may be dutiful to a fault, but still, generally that is viewed as a good trait, especially for soldiers.

 

I'm not sure we are supposed to see it as an exclusively good trait in Eora

 

I was thinking about the real world considerations of good traits, not Eora. I don't think Eorans even know what a feminist is, lol, they just live with it - women in command everywhere for gods know how long.

 

I thought we were just talking about being dutiful, not women specifically here :D Or did I lose the plot? I wonder if the lopsided character are related to them having wanted to integrate some of the sidekicks but running out of time/resources/the desire. I find Fassina hilarious even if I can't stand her for kicking the imp, then there's the party animal drunkard and the weird soul drinker - none of them dutiful :D

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 I find Fassina hilarious even if I can't stand her for kicking the imp, then there's the party animal drunkard and the weird soul drinker - none of them dutiful :D

I can't say anything definitive about sidekicks, as they don't have enough dialogue to judge, and they're not included in the relationship system. But if I were to guess I'd say Ydwin is close in character to Aloth, being a serious academic focused on her research. Fassina is an academic too, but unfocused for the moment and spiteful at everybody, cuz she just left her most hated master. Mirke is a comic relief, unfortunately the only one in the game, and not a companion. So even with those, the level of goofiness of male companions is still higher.

Edited by Aramintai
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I'm going to hatekiss Aloth and then sail off to Yezuha with Rekke in the epilogue while Aloth continues his quest to destroy the Leaden Key.

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Aloth massages his temples, shaking his head.

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Well, we can obviously see that the trait system is reacting to traits, not gender (sometimes I think the system is a little too transparent, but anyway).

 

But if you want to do some psychoanalysis of our boy Aloth, I'd say it all comes down to ying & yang. Masculine and feminine energy.  Eder, Serafen and Teheku, despite being softies at heart, all embody very masculine traits. They're guy's guys who you'd wanna invite out for a beer. Aloth... He's more of a nerd. I think I'd invite him to my D&D group. Basically, he's got more feminine energy, so he's more comfortable with the women.

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I think it's perfectly in-character for Aloth not to like Tekehu or Serafen. He's very Aedyran by nature, so I'm not surprised he dislikes the shady pirate and the flamboyant party boy. ;) But indeed, we don't get a "shady" female companion to balance that out a bit, unless the Watcher is played as such.

 

I can see why Aloth responds well to dutiful Pallegina and Maia, but I was always a bit surprised he approved so much of Xoti's religious fanaticism. Even though she is very committed to her cause - it's all about worshipping a pantheon that Aloth sees in a very critical light, and so I'd have expected him to dislike her religious zealotry just the same way he disapproves of Gina's belief in animancy.

 

And I wouldn't go as far as to say all male companions are goofs. Tekehu certainly is, and Edér was never the sharpest knife in the drawer, but Serafen? He's pretty sharp and knows exactly what he wants. He just doesn't use fancy words to say it. ;)

 

About Iselmyr:

My Watcher encouraged Aloth to live with her, and I have to say I like how that seems to play out in Deadfire. I have never seen how it goes on the suppressed path, but during my playthrough the Aloth/Iselmyr dialogue went very smoothly, indicating that they have found a certain camaraderie with each other. I also got the impression that Iselmyr mostly let's Aloth do his thing these days, and that is why he's a tad grumpy that Edér is trying to lure her out more.

I never got the infamous Edér/Iselmyr scene, though. I wonder if that one only triggers as long as you are not in a relationship with Aloth?

 

All in all, I'm really looking forward to a patch that will fix the companion interaction. I really like their interactions so far and cannot wait to see them "unbugged" and how they were ment to be seen! :grin:

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That depends with where you stand with RDC/Rauatai and religion.

 

RDC doesn't really have much to do with it. Maia shooting innocent civilians in the head for her organization does. I don't think this sort of dutifullness and unquestioning loyalty is generally viewed as a good thing. Granted, she has some second thoughts about it, but still. And Xoti isn't just devote, she is overzealous and actively attacks people who as much as voice a different opinion. She started poking me with her sickle for merely saying that Pallegina isn't entirely wrong for goodness sake.

 

So I seriously doubt that either of them were suppoused to be taken as positive examples when it comes to being dutiful.

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I find Fassina hilarious even if I can't stand her for kicking the imp, then there's the party animal drunkard and the weird soul drinker - none of them dutiful :D

I can't say anything definitive about sidekicks, as they don't have enough dialogue to judge, and they're not included in the relationship system. But if I were to guess I'd say Ydwin is close in character to Aloth, being a serious academic focused on her research. Fassina is an academic too, but unfocused for the moment and spiteful at everybody, cuz she just left her most hated master. Mirke is a comic relief, unfortunately the only one in the game, and not a companion. So even with those, the level of goofiness of male companions is still higher.

 

Fassina comes out with some pretty hilarious comments on Arkemyr, and leaving him kind of suggests she's not that dutiful (as well as some other snippets you pick up about her). Ydwin - dedicated to her studies yes, but pretty into the whole experimental stuff. She seems more independent than "dutiful" to me.

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Fassina comes out with some pretty hilarious comments on Arkemyr, and leaving him kind of suggests she's not that dutiful (as well as some other snippets you pick up about her). Ydwin - dedicated to her studies yes, but pretty into the whole experimental stuff. She seems more independent than "dutiful" to me.

Not dutiful perhaps, but definitely more serious than most male companions. I don't see these two goofing around much either.

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Fun fact re: goofiness and not being the sharpest knife in the drawer. If I'm not mistaken Tekehu actually has the highest intellect of all the companions stat-wise (not sure about Ydwin and Fassina, but it's def higher than Aloth's). It really caught me by surprise when I opened his character sheet.

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I'm going to hatekiss Aloth and then sail off to Yezuha with Rekke in the epilogue while Aloth continues his quest to destroy the Leaden Key.

Haha. I love Rekke too, though I worry about him being a "missionary". That could end up getting weird.

 

And I wouldn't go as far as to say all male companions are goofs. Tekehu certainly is, and Edér was never the sharpest knife in the drawer, but Serafen?

I'd describe them as more questioning of authority. Xoti can be viewed as an exception as she goes against what others of her religion think, but she's so dedicated to that it kind of cancels it out.

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Not dutiful perhaps, but definitely more serious than most male companions. I don't see these two goofing around much either.

Fassina has potential.

E.g.: reprogramming the bots so she can shag her bf, dressing up as Arkemyr to con the imps and have them feed her cheese, apparently leaving the shop and putting the imp in charge, plus she gives you Arkemyr's key.

She's a bit of a rebel.

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Fun fact re: goofiness and not being the sharpest knife in the drawer. If I'm not mistaken Tekehu actually has the highest intellect of all the companions stat-wise (not sure about Ydwin and Fassina, but it's def higher than Aloth's). It really caught me by surprise when I opened his character sheet.

Well, whatever you call it - goofiness/stupid/carefree/careless/flippant, etc. These traits somehow mostly ended up in male companions. Hence op's original question about Aloth liking female companions more - that's because most of the serious/dutiful/"masculine" traits were relegated to them. Hence my opinion that companions writing is rather skewed one way.

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Well, whatever you call it - goofiness/stupid/carefree/careless/flippant, etc. These traits somehow mostly ended up in male companions. Hence op's original question about Aloth liking female companions more - that's because most of the serious/dutiful/"masculine" traits were relegated to them. Hence my opinion that companions writing is rather skewed one way.

 

I agree with that, and their stats aren't displayed that much in their interactions with each other anyway. Just pointing out a funny detail.

 

By the way, Rekke also fits in the "all male companions are careless goofs" picture (and seems to have a somewhat low opinion about Aloth who is too sour to his tastes).

Edited by Yria
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There does seem to be a general concept of males being more laid back/self confident (at least superficially)/accepting/able to question authority/possibly more capable of empathy? while the females seem to pattern into duty/something akin to zealotry (depending how you see it).


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Haha. I love Rekke too, though I worry about him being a "missionary". That could end up getting weird.

If you pay attention to his dialogue, I think it's pretty clear he is NOT really a missionary.

He was a slacker/rebellious kid who had a bit of a pyro streak and ended up burning down an entire district. As punishment he was stuck on a boat with a bunch of missionaries headed to the middle of nowhere and told to help their mission.

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Aloth massages his temples, shaking his head.

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Haha. I love Rekke too, though I worry about him being a "missionary". That could end up getting weird.

If you pay attention to his dialogue, I think it's pretty clear he is NOT really a missionary.

He was a slacker/rebellious kid who had a bit of a pyro streak and ended up burning down an entire district. As punishment he was stuck on a boat with a bunch of missionaries headed to the middle of nowhere and told to help their mission.

 

You're right! I admit I just thought it was "weird" and was too lazy to invest the effort to think :D


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Fassina comes out with some pretty hilarious comments on Arkemyr, and leaving him kind of suggests she's not that dutiful (as well as some other snippets you pick up about her). Ydwin - dedicated to her studies yes, but pretty into the whole experimental stuff. She seems more independent than "dutiful" to me.

Not dutiful perhaps, but definitely more serious than most male companions. I don't see these two goofing around much either.

 

I dunno if I'd call Ydwin "dutiful" or "overly serious" myself . She's more of an rogue "wild card" animancer hell-bent on survival, given her backstory. She's "dutiful" only beacuse she doesn't wish to hurt anyone with her research. Hurting herself is a different matter. And she can definately take a joke and dish one out too. Her sense of humour is rather subdued, but she's definately not a humorless stick-in-the-mud like for instance Pallegina. Literally first thing she does when she meets you is to gush about Old Vailian fashion and her tailoring hobby like an overexcited schoolgirl. She also likes to sing aloud for no reason when no-one is looking, although she has no singing voice - at least according to Mordwyr. I really wish she was a full companion - she would have been a excellent foil to Aloth.

As for no "goofy female companions" - where does Xoti fit into that? She is at times one step removed from a Looney Tunes cartoon with her childish behaviour. And she clearly doesn't realize the consequences of her soul harvesting due to her blind zealotry - so there goes the "dutiful" aspect.

But I get what you're saying. There is a running trend of "strong female characters" in various media that usually translates into "humorless, stuck-up woman with no strong personality traits or actual flaws - beacuse by God we cannot portray a woman as flawed", while men can be portrayed as flawed and incompetent without a bigger problem.  It's a certain double standard that I wish went away and never came back - beacuse good, complex characters should be just that - good characters, no matter the gender.

...I am going to get yelled at for this post, aren't I?

Edited by aksrasjel
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There does seem to be a general concept of males being more laid back/self confident (at least superficially)/accepting/able to question authority/possibly more capable of empathy?

 

More laid back and confident, that I see. At least in Serafen and Tekehu, considering how it seems that Edér still hasn't found what he was looking for by the beginning of Deadfire.

 

Empathy is also not a given for all. I can see it in Tekehu very clearly, but Edér is probably the least empathic person ever (*that* Iselmyr dialogue, anyone?). :p A shame he didn't learn anything in that regard, as he was already that careless in the original Pillars. I'm also not sure he learned a lesson this time around, so he could certainly use a bit of character development there!

 

I think the companions as a whole are good characters, and interesting to interact with. But it is indeed a bit of a shame that we didn't get a shady/flamboyant female companion to balance it all out better. Xoti is way off the goofy charts, though. :huh: I think of all the companions in all the games, I like her the least. 

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