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Caed Nua Stronghold Turns You can think of each Stronghold Turn as being an extra reward for any full completion of a Quest (Main Quest, Side Quest, or Task), whenever a Quest is marked off as finished in the Quest Journal. How to Have a Good Stronghold Experience Since Stronghold events only occur on Stronghold Turns, it makes sense to try to avoid turning in Quests before acquiring your Stronghold. However, there are some Quests that are required in order to get the Stronghold itself. Once you get the Stronghold, rationing Quest turn-in's allows you to save up Stronghold Turns for when your Stronghold has higher Prestige and Security ratings (meaning you get more favorable events per Stronghold Turn). This means focusing on Upgrades before turning in most Quests. When you start an Upgrade, simply leave for a different map and come back until the upgrade is complete, then select another upgrade. A simple method is traveling back and forth from, say, the Caed Nua map to Gilded Vale after choosing each upgrade, until the upgrade is finished, and then selecting the next upgrade and repeating. However, upgrades require money. The best source of money is in the Endless Paths below Caed Nua -- containers hold an enormous amount of coins. Ideally, you would loot every container without fighting any monsters. Unfortunately, the enemies get progressively tougher the deeper you go. At some point, you will be forced to do some Quest turn-in's just to level up your party -- when that happens, I recommend completing as many Prestige- and Security-boosting upgrades as possible first, before turning in any Quests. The boosted Prestige & Security scores makes it more likely to get a favorable Stronghold event with each Quest turn-in. You must complete the main quest in Heritage Hill before you can completely conquer the Endless Paths. Once you have conquered Caed Nua, speak with the Steward for a Quest turn-in and a significant boost to both Prestige & Security (+8 each). Here is my recommended order of doing upgrades: Eastern Barbican (required) - the only upgrade you can do at first; costs no money and is finished instantly At this point, decide whether you want to invest any time and energy into the Stronghold: maintaining the Stronghold changes the way you play the game significantly, in that you have to treat Quest turn-in's as Stronghold Turns and ration them accordingly. This can significantly detract from an RP experience, as you must meta-game. You will also need enormous amounts of money, which would otherwise go into enchanting your weapons and armor, or learning new spells for your wizards. If you decide to continue with the Stronghold, then here is the rest of my recommendations on the order of upgrades: Brighthollow Manor - the only upgrade you can do after Eastern Barbican; allows you to rest for free anywhere on the Caed Nua map except in the Endless Paths (simply click the Bed icon at the bottom of the screen) Main Keep - unlocks other upgrades; gives a nice boost to both Prestige & Security (allowing you to collect more taxes) Western Barbican - unlocks more upgrades; also a cheap way to boost Security Curio Shop - gives you free Creature Parts every Stronghold Turn Bailey - unlocks more upgrades; also a cheap way to boost Prestige Botanical Garden - gives you free Herbs every Stronghold Turn Warden's Lodge - allows you to get bounties for lots of money; note that each time you kill a bounty target, you trigger a Stronghold Turn, and then you trigger another Stronghold Turn when you turn in the bounty to the Warden. Afterwards, try to keep Prestige & Security at about the same levels as you choose upgrades. Focusing just on Security makes favorable events almost never happen, which can quickly make you resent your Stronghold. Keeping the two at about the same level gives you a good mix between favorable and unfavorable events. ---------- Here are upgrades I recommend getting last: Barracks - You generally won't need hirelings as long as you keep your character level low. Otherwise, they can be very helpful during Attacks at higher character levels, when the attackers are much more powerful. Note that hirelings are a constant drain on your income per *game day* rather than Stronghold Turn, and are generally not worth it if your income is limited and you still have Stronghold upgrades left. Best advice is to keep character level low rather than sink money into hirelings. The Prestige & Security bonuses you gain from hirelings do not affect the amount of taxes that you collect or that get stolen by bandits; in fact, Prestige & Security do not affect your taxes, period. Dungeons - if you are rationing Quest turn-in's, then it's unlikely you will ever get a chance to use the Dungeons until you start doing Quest turn-in's frequently again. Merchant Stall - you can already sell things at your Curio Shop. Towers - cheap way to boost Prestige & Security. However, once I built Towers, Stronghold Attacks started happening! (??) If Security is low, then best to keep within 3 days' travel distance from Stronghold (so far, minimum warning time for Attacks has been 3 days). Is it that building Towers triggers Stronghold attacks, or once Prestige has reached a certain threshold (10?) the attacks come? In that case, upgrades that raise Security without raising Prestige are best in the beginning? I think I tried this, and that doesn't work either -- attacks just come no matter what. Prestige & Security Higher Security allows visiting Hirelings to safely arrive at your Stronghold. However, I've found Security has a seemingly random relationship with what percentage of taxes get stolen by bandits. It does not seem to consistently affect the percentage stolen. With 3 Prestige & 2 Security: 48 cp lost to bandits, 626 cp arrived safely. Loss = 7.12% With 20 Prestige & 22 Security: 28 cp lost to bandits, 828 cp arrived safely. Loss = 3.27% With 28 Prestige & 27 Security: 115 cp lost, 506 arrived. Loss = 18.5% With 31 Prestige & 30 Security: 435 cp lost, 880 arrived. Loss = 33.1% With 34 Prestige & 30 Security: 273 cp lost, 440 arrived. Loss = 38.3% With 48 Prestige & 46 Security: 678 cp lost, 247 arrived. Loss = 73.3% (Reloads:) With 48 Prestige & 46 Security: 674 cp lost, 181 arrived. Loss = 78.8% With 48 Prestige & 46 Security: 685 cp lost, 253 arrived. Loss = 73.0% With 48 Prestige & 46 Security: 623 cp lost, 229 arrived. Loss = 73.1% (Changing Prestige & Security scores via Hirelings:) With 44 Prestige & 38 Security: 696 cp lost, 165 arrived. Loss = 80.8% With 44 Prestige & 46 Security: 655 cp lost, 246 arrived. Loss = 72.6% Summary: the amount of taxes collected does not scale with the main character's level, nor with the Prestige score. Prestige seems to not have any connection with how much money is collected in taxes every 5 Stronghold Turns: 856 cp taxes in total with just 20 Prestige, while only 713 cp taxes in total with 34 Prestige. Security also seems to not have any connection with how much money is stolen by bandits. For instance, just 7.12% of taxes was stolen with Security score 2, while 78.8% was stolen with Security level 46. (Note: Test if it's the ratio of Prestige to Security that counts instead?) Attacks on the Stronghold I've found that the level of the creatures attacking the Stronghold scales exponentially with the main character's level. If you stay at a low level when you're just starting to upgrade your Stronghold, you can keep the Attacks weak enough that your party alone can handle them. Again, this means withholding any Quest turn-in's until you've upgraded your Stronghold as much as you can between each Quest turn-in. Stronghold Attacks are rolled for each game day. Bad Visitors If you get a Bad Visitor to the Stronghold upon entering a new map, you can re-load the game to the Autosave (if it's been turned on) of the old map where you came from -- if you don't have an Autosave, then you can try hoping you have a Save that is not too far from when you left the previous map. Once you have that Autosave loaded, save it in a new Save slot (or you can skip this step and hope the game doesn't overwrite the Autosave you want). Then completely exit the game, restart Pillars, and load that Save. Now travel to the new map again. You should now get a different Visitor. (Pillars keeps giving you the exact same visitor each time you reload unless you clear its buffer by exiting the game completely.) Final Notes: I am completely sick of the Pillars of Eternity Stronghold and refuse to do any more work on it. If you have any comments or suggestions about this post, please post directly here. Unfortunately, there's no way to upvote / downvote useful comments on the Obsidian forums like there is on Reddit. Suggestions to the Obsidian Team on the Stronghold: Please allow people to accumulate Stronghold Turns whenever they turn in a quest, and then allow them to choose *when* they want to spend those turns. Why does anyone want to play a game that takes control out of the hands of the players? That's the definition of an unenjoyable game. E.g. Imagine Tetris where you hit the Left Arrow to make a piece move left, and instead it just moves it in a random direction 90% of the time. That is what the Stronghold mini-game feels like right now. Please fix the Prestige / Security not affecting the taxes collected, nor the percentage of taxes stolen. Please give the Steward the ability to be an advisor to advise what upgrade to build next, or what the player should do given their character level (e.g. avoid working on any other quests until they finish Level x in Endless Paths).
Early in the PoE2 crowdfunding campaign, I made some suggestions to Feargus that he really liked. I decided to put those on here so the devs would be able to find them easily if they wanted to use them. I also ported over a few stronghold suggestions that I made for PoE that Aarik and a few other Obsidian types liked, but couldn't implement because it was too late in the life cycle of the game. Feel free to comment and add suggestions of your own. If I like them, I'll be sure to add them into this post (with due credit to you). Stronghold: Personally, I'm hoping for something two-fold - a Tortuga-like island that is your actual base and of course your ship, both of which can be upgraded. You could use the ship upgrades to gate off areas of the map you don't want players to get to (ie stronger design upgrades to negotiate stormier areas or some such thing). The island would be where you conduct the vast majority of your traditional stronghold business. Plotlines: If you do a couple of plots akin to "The Master of Caed Nua" (and I hope you are), the only real suggestion I have is this: it was way too easy for players to finish that plotline without having mustered the cool alliances that made the final battle easier and more epic. Now that you'll be crafting out stronghold plotlines right from the start, work on building them out so players most likely will have encountered and acquired such resources so they can bring them to bear. Oh, and just to throw in a shout-out to the Black Isle fundraising effort: provided we secure the funding, have the Black Isle Bastards be one of those battle resources to call upon! Player characters: Holding court was one of the most fun, "epic"-feeling elements of PoE. It was great how your party could contribute, either in dialogue or participation, to the resolution of those interludes. If you are looking to take those encounters to the next level, consider having a couple of the party characters have parts of their quests intersect with stronghold activities like this. Sidekicks: While I get that sidekicks are not full companions nor do they need the full companion treatment, I have seen some players (and admittedly I feel likewise) clamor for something beyond how they have been initially pitched. The stronghold offers a great opportunity to meet players halfway on this. There should be at least one quest/event for each companion out there in the game world, and some of those could easily be stronghold-related, be they interested visitors, quests given by the sidekicks while at the stronghold, some kind of relationship between one of your captured prisoners and a sidekick, etc., etc. Hirelings: I was always a little disappointed that I could build an ampitheater, hire a scald, and then...nothing come of it. Think of a few ways to make the stronghold interactive, particularly with a combination of hirelings and locations within. Likewise, everyone I know who has played the game enjoyed the way you could recruit folks like Korgrak or ambassadors of allies to join the hireling crew. Keep that up. For unique characters like Korgrak, think about how they could have follow-up quests in the form of stronghold events. If you do make alliances in the game, have those ambassadors weigh in on your decisions, just as a way to keep the players on their toes. It doesn't have to impact the game at all, but it'would be very cool to see other nations or groups' representatives react to your play style. Forumite Blotter hopes we'll be able to recruit our unique Caed Nua visitors, and I do, too, but I have the sneaky suspicion that Obsidian will say that Eothas soul ate everyone. In defense of my pal Korgrak, though, I'm going to say that he missed all that because he was out on the trail with the Warden of the Wilds, so he's ready to go for PoE2. ;-) Pets: Whether just in your house or around the whole base, make it so that your excess pets can be seen wandering around. And since this is a sequel, don't be afraid to consider something unexpected and cool like "sequels" to some of these pets. What if another wizard comes looking for Concelhaut's skull? What if your baby lagufaeth has grown up a bit and can now be a hireling or plays some key role if there's a lagufaeth-related questline? And just to cement his legacy as your world's Boo, there should absolutely be some kind of wild quest or stronghold event around the Miniature Giant Space Piglet. Upgrades: Build some reactivity in the world to the upgrades, where random NPCs might remark upon new base or ship features. To reinforce what I wrote in the hirelings section, have some of these upgrades make the stronghold come alive. To use the ampitheater example, Suikoden III had a stronghold feature where you build a theater and stage plays. Two of those plays were based on events from the first two games. In the case of a game like this, you could easily port over player choices (or settings) from PoE that tell a PoE story that reflects the player's experiences. Stuff like that. Forum user DigitalCrack reminded me of an idea that others want: a class-specific add-on. My suggestion there is to choose one area of the stronghold and have any class specific design slotted in there. Also have it accompanied by a hireling (who doesn't count against the # you can hire) and have at least one quest, even if it's just a "choose your own adventure" type, associated with it. Forum user Algroth suggested the idea that some upgrades have variants that allow you to really customize the stronghold. Items: This was the part that Feargus most liked. Over the course of PoE, I acquired some legendary weapons, armors, and grimoires. However, they sat in boxes and on shelves, meaningless. Have it so that certain items add to your prestige and/or security. Make it so that possessing unique items or books might trigger quest lines (a family wants a heirloom sword you found) and stronghold events (a scholar wants to study that orb you discovered). There can be a museum where you display certain items. The library can highlight certain books that you possess. Events: While I envision the island as having 90% of stronghold-related events, you can still surprise with some ship-based ones. Perhaps a treasonous crewman can be made to walk the plank! Plus, I would be remiss if I didn't suggest that one of the events be a ghost ship encounter. Would also suggest one of the sidekicks come from it. ) One pie in the sky idea I had: if it isn't too huge an issue, you could implement a "multiplayer lite" option. Namely, have players be able to send a messenger to another player. This will trigger a unique one-off quest, again even something as simple as the Choose Your Own Adventure style, that the player receiving the messenger could resolve and send back. Nothing more than that, but a fun way to share in the journey with friends without having to build a full MP architecture. Another benefit of doing this is that it builds out the community: people would come here to look for folks to connect with the get the mission and hopefully stick around and participate. One thing referenced by others below and that I've definitely heard feedback on: people want more out of the prisoners, be they interactions in the dungeons, trials, or events. That was a popular feature especially in the early PoE build that showed how deep the stronghold might go, so it's definitely a place where you should look to expand. Forumite Kirk raises a good point that for events like attacks on the stronghold and the Battle of Yenwood, the PCs not in your party were nowhere to be found. Something to consider addressing for similar sequences in Part 2. Economics: Forumite Tanos and others have mentioned that the economics of Caed Nua were a bit wonky and that the new stronghold should have a better system, ideally with player choice and opportunity to drive economic success. Forumite Fardragon suggested that if ships are involved in the stronghold calculus, that they could be used in goods trading.
hi, just registered here to ask a few questions. I've been playing Pillars of Eternity for a couple of weeks now. Let me start off with this one. I know this may be an old topic, but I kinda need help with one. I just so happen to check some information about the game, specifically Caed Nua. link over here: http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Caed_Nua#Adventures I noticed that there are special guests (bad and prestigious ones) that actually provide other conversation options. The ones i actually have in my keep now are Lord Byrnwigar (bad) and Lord Sidroc (prestigious). For Byrnwigar, I wanted to have the option of hanging him to actually gain +3 prestige and probably help Sidroc with some other things. However, whenever I try talking to them they never open a conversation window and only say one line. Sidroc doesn't have any other options in the Keep menu and Byrnwigar has only two: "Pay Off" and "Send Escort". I'm wondering if i'm missing something in the game's progress or if there's a bug. Any suggestions?