Dehumanizer

Hello. I don't know if this has been discussed before - a quick search revealed nothing. In my current game, I'm playing LS. I've beat the Handmaiden at sparring thrice, she is now a jedi, and when I do things that the walkthrough (the DSimpson one, at Gamefaqs) mentions should raise my influence with her, she compliments me but I get no "Influence gained: Handmaiden" message. I assume it means my influence with her is maxed out. However, when I ask her about Atris, she always refuses, and I get the "Influence: failure" message. Is this a bug? Or does she only talk about Atris later in the game? I'm looking for the 2nd jedi master now.

Replaying PS:T is always a good idea.

I believe this has been discussed to death, and I certainly don't want the mods to lock this thread. In short, people (including myself, but certainly not everyone, of course) believe KOTOR2 is unfinished because (and unlike Torment, for instance): - the ending feels rushed, empty, and is of a much worse quality than the rest of the game - many minor plots (like relationships / conflicts between NPCs) don't go anywhere, seem to be forgotten - major, highly desirable content is mentioned in the game (not the unused files), but is missing (like the droid factory) - and, yes, the unused dialogues and plot are, somehow, of much higher quality than the released ending (this is arguable, of course, but most people seem to be disappointed by the ending, including most of the "late" reviews). It's not just a question of "there's something else in the CDs".

This is strange. It's wrong to have to pay again for stuff that should already be part of the game. But if the only choices are paying, or never getting the proper ending, the droid planet and the resolution of several plotlines, I'd pay. Here's a suggestion: release an expansion pack (and later a "game of the year edition", also for the Xbox, just like Morrowind), not just with the missing stuff (but certainly including it), but with completely new content as well. A couple of extra planets, a couple of new prestige classes, a bunch of optional quests (including a "big one", which would be the major selling point). That way, LA and Obsidian would profit, the expansion wouldn't be seen as "completing an unfinished game", and we'd not merely be paying for something that should be included in the box. What do you think?

We want to play Palpatine, not a thug. The game is better than KOTOR 1 in this respect, but still has a long way to go...

MS doesn't allow patches, but allows extra content. If some patches are "hidden" in it, it's OK. Didn't Xbox users get the Yavin station through Live?

Not fair! I'm in both 25-30 and 30-40!

I think it's only natural, and not wholly undeserved. Look at it this way: - the story, characters, dialogue and atmosphere are excellent - after Peragus and before the ending, the game glues you to your seat - there are technical bugs, but if you have the latest drivers for everything (and an NVIDIA card (I have an ATI, by the way)), they mostly aren't showstoppers - and most reviews mention bugs, by the way - dialogue loops and "game logic" bugs, too, are mentioned in the reviews, though they aren't enough to ruin the enjoyment of the game - and, finally, most reviewers DON'T play games to the end - at least before reviewing them. Some later reviews HAVE mentioned the "put together in a day" ending, and gave lower scores because of that. It's still one of the best RPGs in recent times, IMO. So much that I'd actually pay for an "expansion pack" that included JUST the "real" ending, the droid planet and the resolution of several minor plots - even though all that should be included in my original purchase.

I understand. I know it's not an easy job - no matter what you do, some will accuse you of doing too much, and some of not doing enough. I have a forum-like site too, where I'm the only mod, so I know what it's like (though it's much smaller than this) I understand, again. People complain and complain because there's not much else we can do (other than protesting in front of LA's headquarters, which I can't do because I live in Europe, anyway...) I didn't say the forums were currently a police-state, just that they might become so in the future. It wasn't an accusation, only a fear. I think (and please don't feel accused) that you guys were too lenient at first, and it's easy to be tempted to overcompensate now.

A suggestion to moderators: it's not an "all or nothing" thing. Obsidian are understandably annoyed about all the "OMG KOTOR2 SUXXORS OBSEEDYAN CANT MAKE GAMES!!!!11!!! WHERES BYOWARE?!??" posts, which should have been deleted and weren't. But complaining *reasonably* and *politely* about the game's bugs, unresolved plot lines and the cut ending is not the same as flame posts and trolling. Mods, please don't overcompensate now by deleting or locking any threads which criticize any parts of the game. If these forums become akin to a "police state", *then* they won't need to be closed down - they will simply be abandoned. Just my opinion, of course. I hope this doesn't offend anyone.

Hey, this is a nice poll! But it should have included more options, such as the HK droid in Peragus.

I disagree, I don't think most people would have been satisfied with the released ending. But we argued about that one before, let's not repeat it here. Anyway, let me add my encouragement for Obsidian (again). The game is brilliant, darker than I'd have thought possible (and that's a compliment, believe me). But... thinking a bit about this, I actually find that this is one of the best forums around. Most people here are nice and write well-thoughtout posts (even those I tend to disagree with, like ShadowPaladin). Of course there are rude kids around who complain about everything, but no more than in most game-related forums. Or is it just me? Sure, this isn't like the Paradox forums where everyone's a hard-core wargamer who loves Paradox's games, but this isn't GameSpy either.

HK-47 is both protocol droid (he is "proficient in over 6000 languages", after all) and assassin droid. That's why I say C3PO may also be an HK unit - he just doesn't have access to half of his memory during the movies. Now, if someone came to him with enough Repair skill... :D

Maybe C3PO doesn't even know about it - remember that HK units are famous for missing most of their memories. Maybe Anakin didn't really built him, but just repaired him. With the right triggers (or enough repair skill), C3PO would totally change his attitude...

Maybe, if you people do a great job, Obsidian will hire you!

Saying "OMG OBSIDIAN SUX!" just means you are an immature brat. But asking LA to allow Obsidian to finish the game isn't the same thing as that.

These aren't the droids you're looking for.

Please don't quote a huge post in full to add a short reply, or you'll lose influence with me.

I don't think the game sucks, and I have the greatest respect for Obsidian. If I and many people talk about the ending so much, it's because we believe that a brilliant game deserves at least a "good" ending, instead of something awkwardly put together in a couple of days. But, yes, I don't expect LA to finance or even allow Obsidian to make (out of their own pockets) a "bonus content pack". Not only wouldn't it bring them money in the short term (and business suits don't grasp the concept of "long term", "good reputation" and "improved sales for the sequels"), but it would, in a way, be an admission that they partially ruined, due to greed and short-sightedness, what was going to be one of the best RPGs ever. Still, I believe trying was the right thing. And we can always hope... What will the future bring? Well, modders will certainly try to restore part or all of the cut ending, and maybe (one can dream) the droid factory.. Maybe - just maybe - Obsidian could "unofficially" help them - not doing the actual modding work, but at least telling them what they intended for the parts that aren't on the game CDs.

More than 2600 now. I'm surprised it's growing so fast...

Are you arguing for the sake of argument? I don't know, I'm kind of new here, maybe you're known for doing this... To me, "same lead designer" means something. Obsidian "isn't" exactly BI, but it has pretty much the same lead people. And, yes, the first Fallout was created by some people who later founded Troika. Just like the Civilization 1 people later formed Firaxis (though the lead designer of Civ 2, Colonization and Alpha Centauri nowadays leads Big Huge Games). To me, BI mostly changed their name to Obsidian (and were released from Interplay). Sure, some people left, some people joined, but much of the creative people are the same. What's next? You'll tell me Liquid Tension Experiment are NOT Dream Theater with a different bassist and no vocals?

They did. Not all of the same people, but most of them, including lead designer Chris Avellone. They were just called "Black Isle" then.

I won't judge Obsidian based solely on KOTOR2. I also remember Planescape: Torment, possibly the best game I've ever played - and I've been a gamer since the early 80s. And I *love* KOTOR2. I'm very pissed off because it was rushed and some important (and obviously intended to be included) parts were cut, but I'll never deny that Obsidian has some of the best writers in the industry. Although next time I *will* wait for reviews and forums comments before buying, instead of pre-ordering the game like I did for KOTOR2.