Cantousent

I've been thinking about this a lot. In fact, ever since I read the blog

Aw, comeon! You don't take WHoA seriously? They've created WoW.

Sold. Assuming I can get it at D2D, I'll get it today. If I cannot make an online purchase, it will wait until tomorrow. EDIT: Okay, did Direct2Drive go out of business? I used it to buy Hitman last year and now the site won't load.

Haha I actually started to lock the topic until I realized that I can't. I knew it was an April fools' joke the second I saw the title.

This literally made me laugh aloud. See, I would rather not have any choice at all if this example is the alternative. However, I'm pretty easy to please when it comes to freedom. I want it, sure. What I don't want is for the design team to sacrifice other aspects for freedom that, in the end, is always illusory. I'll buy into the illusion of freedom as long as everything else is in place.

Any number of nations could undertake an invasion of Iran. Some of them could succeed. There aren't any nations with sufficient will to do so. We can kill the enemy on a 10 to 1 ratio and it's considered a dismal failure by the world press. Hell, it's considered a failure in our own press. If Iran doesn't hand over the sailors, then the UK should take appropriate action. Doing so will undoubtedly push us closer to a dramatic world-wide military show down. Of that I'm certain. Unfortunately, and here is where most of you miss the mark, if the UK takes no action, or even weak action, then we will also be pushed closer to a world-wide military show down. The only thing that will help us is for Iran to give up the sailors.

Ah, now you're just trying to escalate our disagreement. Fair enough. ...And my comments regarding the freedom of action certainly did drive the point home, Ms. Caliban. After all, you cite my comments outside of this thread to attack my statements within it. So, what we get from this is that: I made the error of driving off topic. You gleefully followed me and have made our particular disagreement as much the point of the discussion as I did. My commentary is, indeed, much more vibrant than your own. This is a point with which I heartily agree. and I think the freedom to consume your own waste, in either solid or liquid form, is pointless and the design team should not sacrifice the resources necessary to implement such a feature. I guess I have one more comment for the time being. I really don't care that I've made you angry, but it's probably not productive. Here, I'll apologize and even let you get the last word. I mean, as long as you can cram it all into one post, have at me and let's be done with it. Well, maybe even two, but then all bets are off. :Cant

I dunno. It just seems that folks have been piling it on the poor guy here. I suppose it won't do much good for me to raise the heat in the thread though. Ah well, probably not good judgment on my part to fight rp's battles for him. I beg his pardon, if not anybody else's.

After reading 13 pages of article, I'll be damned if I'm not going to comment on the ideas in it. If RP feels as though I'm attacking him, I am certain he can tell me himself. I suppose you can damned well do what you want. We will all benefit from your chef d'oeuvre. EDIT: For example, "I'm to page four and basically I've picked up is, 'Cut scenes are bad.' Also, putting an article of that size in 9 point font is a poor design decision."

Ah, give RP a break. You know, he put it on the line and wrote a whole article for everyone to attack. That's a damned sight better than the vast majority of us.

I love the United Kingdom. I love the history. I love the people. I love the very idea of Great Britain. Don

Hellgate London is my current fave. I've been jonesin' to get it for a long time. After going around a bit on the London Underground, I'm even more excited by it.

I agree. I was pleasantly surprised at the Eternal Sunshine. I've even been thinking of buying it.

There is no ' in Cant, damn it. The Mass Effect discussion only goes so far. It's not even finished yet. The larger discussion has centered on freedom for a long time. Sawyer's views on mature themes is far more interesting to me, but there were no bites.

graphics! hahahaha No, I guess I'd probably say gameplay. Really, it's such a mix to me. One game might overshadow others because of gameplay while another because of the story. I actually rather liked what I played of Oblivion, so even freedom to do what I want is important. Anyhow, I agree that Sawyer seems to think that freedom with meaningful consequences is the most important aspect of the game. That was my point of disagreement. If he believe that freedom without attendant circumstances was most important, then I'd really think he was nuts. I've always rather liked Sawyer. I'm not attacking the guy. I just don't put freedom as high on the chain as he does. ...Or maybe I do and don't know it. I sometimes think we, as gamers, aren't always the best judge of what makes a great game. We see the end product and then assume that one aspect or another is what made it great. I dunno. ...And I was baiting you, Spider, but all in good fun. :Eldar's wolfish grin icon:

Actually, I think he gives that to framerate. hahahaha

To me the most important aspect is to have choices with meaningful consequences. This does not mandate freedom, however. At least not in the sense that I should be able to go anywhere at anytime and kill anyone I want. But I want to be the one in control of my character and I want the choices I do get to make to be meaningful. You have detailed a system in which freedom is not the most important aspect. Notice, however, that I did not say that freedom in a game is bad. I said that it is not the most important aspect. I reiterate, it is not the most important aspect. As I understand Sawyer's position, freedom is a sort of designer trump card. Actually, I always thought it was balance, but I seem to remember him saying at some point that freedom was the most important aspect. What I'm saying, to be clear, is that freedom is not the most important aspect. With or without attendant consequences, freedom is not the most important aspect. With or without a moral code, freedom is not the most important aspect. I can hear shirts rending and teeth gnashing already. Hey, you want to have a chance to be meanspirited to me, ask me what is the most important aspect. That ought to put me on the defensive. If you're expecting the MCA story trumps all approach, you will be surprised. EDIT: in which

Even freedom which results in broad consequences is not the most important aspect of a CRPG.

Sawyer is too much of a freedom freak. Of all his views, his fixation on choice appeals to me least. By saying that, I mean I don't like his stance at all.

Lack of sleep. I loved this exchange. I'm usually not a big Codex fan, but sometimes, even when I disagree with their overarching point, I might agree with individual members. For example, Vol is absolutely right about the old skool rpgs.

Well, from what I understand, the options just show the gist of your meaning. The actual dialogue has considerably more meat.

Eldar

Then perhaps I'm not disagreeing with you. ...Or perhaps I was just trying my hand at uninating in a cup.

The Wife and I saw Sin City. It wasn't terrible.

I disagree wholeheartedly. We shouldn't desire a game where we can act as many ways as possible. I see no value in allowing the Player to have the PC urinate into a glass and then drink the contents. I'm one of those "do-gooder" gamers. I'm not ashamed in the least about it. I can understand, however, that some gamers want broader moral choice. That's all well and good. I agree with the notion that there should be a meaningful evil option, if there must be such an option in the first place. Much more important than complete freedom, for me at least, is that the world reflects what I've done in some sort of way. If developers can make a game where our actions have some significant impact on our interaction with NPCs, then the experience will transcend something so trite as a "good v evil" option. We will have options. Whether the option we choose is good or evil should not be the immediate concern. Moral? Maybe. Ethical? To some. Logical? Hopefully. Part of an overarching plan? If the player so desires.