Commissar

Well, you could always wear it at a Japanese Cosplay convention... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> True enough. But with the million dollars it'd take to get me anywhere near anything having to do with anime, I could buy a much better costume, preferably with a 'Shoot Me' sign on the back of it.

Yes, it does. As the Catholic church recently put it, that's a step closer to fundamentalism. And, like it or not, nobody respects a highly religious country - especially a country in which religious elements are seen to play a large role in the government. Putting creationism in public schools is essentially sponsoring it, because there's no way in hell any reasonable person could suggest it's actual science. We're already going to be trailing in biotechnology if the federal government continues to balk at funding stem cell research, which means that if - and I do mean if - important advances come from such lines of scientific advancement (such as, I don't know, a cure for cancer, or even something more 'mundane' like Alzheimer's), we're going to be well behind the curve and buying our juice from somebody else. I have no problem with people who read the Bible literally, but it does clearly state that faith alone can cure a person of their ailments - that'd be a fun national healthcare policy, huh? It's a bad road to go down, and I really wish someone would explain why it seems to be happening.

Did you read that willingly? I had to go through the whole damn thing in a week and wanted to shoot myself afterwards. And, to be quite honest, the aristocracy was very often the target of inquisitions and the Inquisition - I forget his name at the moment, which is really rather bad, since I wrote a paper on him, but the Bishop of...geez, I want to say Toledo (in Spain, obviously, not Ohio) was tried by the Inquisition for around ten years before finally being let off the hook. Largest diocese in Spain at the time, if I recall correctly. Of course, that was mostly just a power struggle - not only between his rival, the Secretary General of the Inquisition, but also between the Spanish monarchy and the Pope. I'm obviously something of an atheist, and not terribly enamoured with Christianity in general, so believe me, I went into my study of this subject thinking that, through all the smoke and mirrors, I'd find that it really was just some sort of fascist control system. I have to admit I didn't find much to support that. As with anything, politics of course played its part, but overall I really am forced to conclude that the inquisitors and the Inquisitors really were working for the service of their religion, which, if you grant that premise, more or less proves my initial point. Funny how I worked that in there, yeah?

You lost me again.

They had a long, long history. They originated somewhere around 950AD, and the Church didn't really start to take a true interest in them until the middle of the 12th century. That's two hundred years. Until then, they were not persecuted, but rather...well, I don't want to say 'reasoned with,' but they were in fact allowed to debate their theology with the Church.

I mean, when you really think about it, where would you ever wear it? Star Wars films are done, so you can't annoy people like me by showing up to a movie theater in full regalia, and likewise you can't just wander on down the street with that, and Halloween only comes once a year, and unless you're going to a Pimp 'n Ho party, there's nothing doing on Halloween after you turn into a teenager, anyway, and I don't really want to stop this long sentence so I'll just say this last bit and end it: it's not worth $500 for all that.

Yeah... ...but did you see that Hardee's commercial? Yowza.

Who the hell is Revan?

Alright, kids, let's play nice and not invoke Nazis. Use your inside voices.

I wasn't suggesting that other motives couldn't coexist with the religious ones with regard to the Crusades; the later Crusades especially were mostly just attempts to grab whatever you could and hold onto it. But even they, and the first couple especially, very much were composed of those inspired by religion to do as the pope was asking. As far as the Inquisition goes...I first need to know if we're talking Inquisition or inquisitions. When I took a class on this subject (I got my theology minor unwittingly, by the way; took enough history classes that were cross-listed with theology to qualify), I went in with assumption that I would discover that the established Inquisition was all just a big, 1984-like system of social enforcement. To some extent I'll agree that it was, but not nearly the way I had thought of it. Actual Inquisitors themselves were extremely religious, and unless they were simply lying for posterity's sake, I have a hard time believing that the vast majority, if not all of them, saw themselves as doing God's will, as opposed to ruthlessly enforcing the Church's supremacy over all aspects of social life. I know this argument would carry a lot more weight if I could cite some stuff to back up it up, and if you truly want me to, I could probably find a couple of my old readers - never sold those textbooks for some reason. Inquisitions, on the other hand, (and I'm talking lower-case i here) were most certainly religious. This was before the Church actually established the Holy Office of the Inquisition (or whatever it's name was), and were mostly independent investigations into heresy by local bishops - though the trials and punishments themselves were almost exclusively carried out in civil courts. I say 'most certainly religious' because that's how I view the Church's conflicts with groups like the Waldensians and the Cathars...there were substantial theological differences between such heretical groups and the Church. As long as they weren't publically challenging Church theology, they could pretty much do whatever they wanted.

Ovechkin won one for my boys tonight. Good stuff.

You're correct, you don't have to justify your faith to anyone, just as I don't have to justify my lack of faith...except in cases where you want to, in some manner or another, impose that faith on society as a whole. But the real kicker is, I still don't. Atheism isn't a religion of any sort; people like to make out atheism as a secular religion or something, but as I've said repeatedly, it's defined by a lack of belief, not an anti-belief. Why am I telling you this? Because as long as you're not trying to get your religion into, for example, the public school system, then you're fine. You can tell us all to screw off and believe what you want. But when you support such efforts, you have to be willing to accept the fact that we're arguing against it. There's a lot of this persecuted majority stuff going on these days, and people like to suggest that atheists talk about religion more than Christians. The bottom line is, if I don't know your faith in the first place, I'm not going to complain about it, am I?

And people say there's no use for a minor in theology.

Funny you would say that, considering that I don't see your point in that post, nor how does any of that patronising have anything to do with the discussion. You're just proving that you were merely taking a shot at me and what I was saying, and that your actual interest in the conversation is marginal. But hey, I guess that derailing discussions and making them personal is a lesson that I'll learn as I get older, too. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Lutheranism was already far more widespread before the start of the Thirty Years War than any other heresy the Catholic church had faced, and despite active inquisitions and harsh punishments for those found guilty of heresy. Protestant outposts were prominent in France, a few parts of Spain, Languedoc, the Low Countries, and yes, Germany. Futhermore, after the actual war was concluded, Lutheranism spread primarily not from the territories under control of Protestant rulers that were allowed to remain Protestant, but from the 'illegal' pockets of Protestants throughout the rest of Europe - it could be said that German theologians and Protestant lay-preachers sort of sat back on their heels and let the French, Swiss, and Italians do their work for them. So while the conflict itself may have shaped the way Lutheranism developed in Germany, I'd reckon it had minimal impact on the other parts of Europe that were primarily responsible for its promulgation.

No, not too much about Mary, actually. But hey, you're the expert; I'm sure you're not wading hip-deep into a subject based solely on mistaken opinions and an extremely vague knowledge of history. I'll take shots wherever I like; if you can't be bothered to make your points clearly, I'm not going to fault myself for taking you to task. That's the sort of lesson you're going to have to learn as you get older.

No, that's blatantly incorrect. Numerous Protestant and pre-Protestant sects complained of the various excesses and impieties of the clergy, but those were not their only - or even their primary - motivations. Substantial theological differences about the very nature of the Christian religion that had their roots in heretical organizations as far back as 700AD came to fruition with Lutheranism, and later all the various others that followed it.

Cast of 'Rent' - Seasons of Love And I could kick everyone's ass, so don't say anything about it.

Now, you're assuming I'm a religious guy. I'm not, I just think religion has its uses. Also, I was trying to point out that people are the ones who define what is or isn't valuable. So, for example, getting whipped gives pleasure to some people, hence they pay money for it, and hence it is worth something to them. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That you chose that particular example tells me more than I want to know about you.

Well, you'd be hard-pressed to make the case that religion (or an interpretation of it) isn't at fault for the numerous heretic/witch burnings throughout history. Similarly, though I don't fault religion itself for the Crusades or the Thirty Years' War, I certainly recognize that it was a primary motivation for the participants - though the latter is a perfect example of genuine religious fervor mating with political and material considerations to provoke something truly unholy.

Judges 16:27-30 - "Now the house was full of men and women ... about three thousand men and women.... And Samson called unto the Lord, and said ... strengthen me ... that I may be at once avenged of the Philistines.... And Samson took hold of the two middle pillars upon which the house stood..... And Samson said, Let me die with the Philistines. And he bowed himself with all his might; and the house fell upon the lords, and upon all the people that were therein. So the dead which he slew at his death were more than they which he slew in his life. " Lev. 24:16 - "He that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him." Lev. 21:9 - "And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire." Dt. 13:6 - "If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die." 2 Chr. 15:13 - "Whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman." Ps. 58:10 - "The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked. " Sounds pretty violent to me.

Which proves how stupid the human race is. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Speak for yourself, monkey man! *arr arr arr* For tenpence worth: I think a lot more crimes are committed for want of religiously formed morals than are committed in the name of religion. How many murders are committed around the world because of theft, adultery and so on? And how many are committed for religion? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There's a fallacy there. You assume that the morals that prevent theft, adultery, or murder in general are as a result of religion.

given that al gore apparently invented it, i'm guessing that's why liberals think they're so much smarter, and better with it? taks <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's true, though.

Kanye West - Jesus Walks. Kind've become the theme song around here. At least until they all see the movie.

Good on Cardinal Poupard. Edit: I'm not kidding, either. This is one of those things that really brightens your day. The Catholic church arguing for reason in the face of potential fundamentalism. Think I'll have a beer and toast the Vatican.

Did you learn how to link pictures today or something? Knock it off.